Sox setting up for the end of the Konerko era?

[Chicago White Sox]

Here's my question. Say we hold on to Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago peg them for our rotation next year.

 

What moves can be made to fix this offense between now and opening day 2014 if you're actually trying to compete?

[Eminor3rd]

I would say they are hedging their bets with depth, but neither of those guys are anything like a major league starter now or in the future.

[caulfield12]

Here's my question. Say we hold on to Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago peg them for our rotation next year.

 

What moves can be made to fix this offense between now and opening day 2014 if you're actually trying to compete?

 

 

Trade Axelrod.

 

Trade Ramirez and give SS to Sanchez and hope he can put up a 625-650 OPS.

 

Decide who they'd rather keep between Crain and Lindstrom and deal the other.

 

Trade Thornton.

 

 

The big argument's going to be about trading Peavy...can what they would get in return offensively offset the falloff from going to Axelrod or Johnson to replace him?

 

Then if you take Konerko's money off the books, Peavy, Ramirez, Crain and Thornton...you have created quite a bit of money to play around with and fix the offensive holes.

 

It could obviously not work. But they have to do something.

 

They also might need to go out and find a starting catcher....so they need to audition Phegley in the 2nd half to make sure he's not the answer for 2014.

 

 

Going with Sanchez is a huge risk which can obviously backfire, but at this point, they're better off getting out from under Alexei's contract if they can pull it off. The return will be fairly marginal, though. (And maybe, just maybe, Semien or Saladino can play their way into the picture).

 

You have to keep Rios because we don't have anyone ready to step in offensively from the minors. You might even have to keep DeAza.

Edited May 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[Jake]

Yeah, none of these minor leaguers are going to be Konerko's replacement. And while I still have faith in Viciedo, I think you keep him in LF until someone forces him out of the spot or until he shows he can't handle the position defensively.

 

That means free agency or the trade market. One name that would be somewhat intriguing on the cheap would be Kendrys Morales. He'll be 30 to start the 2014 season, he can hit RHP, and playing at Safeco this year could suppress his power numbers. If you can get him at a reasonable price, he might be a nice replacement for Konerko.

 

Kendrys Morales would probably be a perfect pickup for us. Shouldn't command a mega-contract but will give us an important middle of the order bat.

 

 

One issue with Dunn is that he always seem to "set up" and lock into a position to catch the ball...then, for whatever reason, he's having a very difficult time adjusting.

 

Part of it is simply his size and frame.

 

This is what I was trying to say. I haven't noticed it in particular.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

If you want to improve the offensive quickly, it will have to be done in free agency. Three guys who make a lot of sense are Utley, McCann, & Morales. Add two of them to replace Konerko, Flowers and/or Beckham and you suddenly have a better, more-lefthanded offense.

 

Unlikely I know, but I'm but sure what other options there are if you're tryin to compete.

[NorthSideSox72]

How bad/good is this Seth loman guy?

Six year minor leaguer currently 27 years old. Big power, draws some walks and gets on base, strikes out a lot. K numbers improved slowly in past few years, but up again this year to high 20's in %. Hits lefthanded. Big dude, no speed, defense is decent from what I've seen. He's not really a prospect, but he's a good guy to have at AAA in case your 1B/DH types get hurt. He's not a long term plan for a major league club that wants to compete.

 

[caulfield12]

If you want to improve the offensive quickly, it will have to be done in free agency. Three guys who make a lot of sense are Utley, McCann, & Morales. Add two of them to replace Konerko, Flowers and/or Beckham and you suddenly have a better, more-lefthanded offense.

 

Unlikely I know, but I'm but sure what other options there are if you're tryin to compete.

 

 

You're probably going to have to part ways with Peavy to be able to fit all three of those guys into the payroll...but it's worth the risk, IMO.

 

Of course, all of this is predicated on John Danks being at least a decent contributor and not a 2001-2004ish 5th starter.

 

 

Or you go crazy and try to acquire Headley and build the offense around him, Rios and Viciedo.

In the position we're currently in, acquiring those three via free agency would be much better.

[Chicago White Sox]

You're probably going to have to part ways with Peavy to be able to fit all three of those guys into the payroll...but it's worth the risk, IMO.

 

Of course, all of this is predicated on John Danks being at least a decent contributor and not a 2001-2004ish 5th starter.

 

 

Or you go crazy and try to acquire Headley and build the offense around him, Rios and Viciedo.

In the position we're currently in, acquiring those three via free agency would be much better.

I was only suggesting two of the three, most likely Morales and either McCann or Utley. I don't think we'd need to move Peavy to accomplish that. The point is improving the offense without sacrificing the rotation.

[caulfield12]

I was only suggesting two of the three, most likely Morales and either McCann or Utley. I don't think we'd need to move Peavy to accomplish that. The point is improving the offense without sacrificing the rotation.

 

 

I think if the choice if McCann or Utley and no Peavy (Axelrod/Johnson) or no McCann or Utley but you keep Peavy in the rotation, I would take the risk of trying to improve the offense.

 

A lot depends on what happens with Gillaspie, Carlos Sanchez (in AAA), Beckham, Flowers and Viciedo over the next 5 months.

 

And I probably wouldn't trade Peavy until the 13-14 offseason unless a super attractive, too good to pass it up deal came across the desk and we were at least 10 games back in June or July.

 

 

[caulfield12]

I was only suggesting two of the three, most likely Morales and either McCann or Utley. I don't think we'd need to move Peavy to accomplish that. The point is improving the offense without sacrificing the rotation.

 

 

I think if the choice if McCann or Utley and no Peavy (Axelrod/Johnson) or no McCann or Utley but you keep Peavy in the rotation, I would take the risk of trying to improve the offense.

 

A lot depends on what happens with Gillaspie, Carlos Sanchez (in AAA), Beckham, Flowers and Viciedo over the next 5 months.

 

And I probably wouldn't trade Peavy until the 13-14 offseason unless a super attractive, too good to pass it up deal came across the desk and we were at least 10 games back in June or July.

 

 

[caulfield12]

I was only suggesting two of the three, most likely Morales and either McCann or Utley. I don't think we'd need to move Peavy to accomplish that. The point is improving the offense without sacrificing the rotation.

 

 

I think if the choice if McCann or Utley and no Peavy (Axelrod/Johnson) or no McCann or Utley but you keep Peavy in the rotation, I would take the risk of trying to improve the offense.

 

A lot depends on what happens with Gillaspie, Carlos Sanchez (in AAA), Beckham, Flowers and Viciedo over the next 5 months.

 

And I probably wouldn't trade Peavy until the 13-14 offseason unless a super attractive, too good to pass it up deal came across the desk and we were at least 10 games back in June or July.

 

 

DAMN CHINESE INTERNET....ALWAYS GETS CAUGHT UP/FREEZES...ends up with multiple posts

Edited May 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[TaylorStSox]

Some of you guys have an unbelievable amount of free time on your hands.

[caulfield12]

Some of you guys have an unbelievable amount of free time on your hands.

 

 

I plead guilty since I'm stuck in the office all day when I'm not teaching here in China, haha.

 

That's my excuse.

 

I'll go back to reading "Pound Foolish," haha. And, if you haven't read it before and survived the 1980's, make sure to read READY PLAYER ONE, it's awesome.

Edited May 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[TaylorStSox]

I plead guilty since I'm stuck in the office all day when I'm not teaching here in China, haha.

 

That's my excuse.

 

I'll go back to reading "Pound Foolish," haha. And, if you haven't read it before and survived the 1980's, make sure to read READY PLAYER ONE, it's awesome.

Living in China is an excellent excuse. I'll give you that.

[greg775]

I'm ready for the rebuild/reload, but the problem is if our team keeps signing bad players (Dunn, Keppinger types) then the rebuild will be as disastrous as this season is going to be.

Man, the White Sox future looks bleak IMO. I am in favor of trading Paulie, Peavy and Rios, however, and hoping (PRAYING) Hahn can get some amazing pieces for those guys to put together a contender. If he can't, wow the future is bleak on the southside.

He's also going to hire a manager from outside the organization next time and that's risky as well. Crazy.

Edited May 8, 2013 by greg775

[caulfield12]

I'm ready for the rebuild/reload, but the problem is if our team keeps signing bad players (Dunn, Keppinger types) then the rebuild will be as disastrous as this season is going to be.

Man, the White Sox future looks bleak IMO. I am in favor of trading Paulie, Peavy and Rios, however, and hoping (PRAYING) Hahn can get some amazing pieces for those guys to put together a contender. If he can't, wow the future is bleak on the southside.

He's also going to hire a manager from outside the organization next time and that's risky as well. Crazy.

 

 

 

There's going to be no amazing pieces coming back, with the possible exception of hitting the Peavy trade exactly right.

 

We'd have to eat a ton of money on Dunn, Danks and some ($2-3-4 million) if Konerko keeps hitting this way.

 

Rios could be cleared for SOMETHING, but it's not going to be anything like the Peavy trade will net the Sox.

 

 

Then you trade Rios, you're looking at the type of offense that would be looking up in admiration at the M's, Astros, Cubs, Rays, Blue Jays, etc.

 

Without Thompson, Mitchell and Walker being able to hold down an everyday position in 2014 (if things hold)....then trading Rios and Peavy is the ultimate surrender/White Flag move.

 

Other than trading Sale, they couldn't make worse moves from a PR/attendance standpoint.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Feel free to prove me wrong but there is not one trade destination for Rios that I find making sense.

 

AL Central- Most likely not to trade with.

 

AL East: Red Sox- Victorino, Yankees - Ichiro/ Ben Fransisco, O's - Markakis

 

AL West: Rangers - could maybe with Murphy scuffling but are righty heavy in the middle anyways, A's and Angels have a glut of OFers

 

NL Central: Cards- Beltran, Cinci - Bruce

 

NL East: Braves - Heyward, Nats - Harper,

 

NL West: SF - Hunter Pence, LAD - Ethier,

 

No contenders have need so barring an injury, I don't think a trade will happen until after the 2013 season if ever.

 

While this thread is getting out of hand I must contribute.

 

Dump Thornton, Crain, De Aza and Paulie (if you can) at the deadline.

 

Sign McCann, Coco Crisp and Kelly Johnson.

 

Against RHP

 

CF Coco Crisp

3B Conor Gilaspie

RF Alex Rios

1B Adam Dunn

C Brian McCann

DH Dayan Viciedo

2B Kelly Johnson/G0rdon Beckham

SS Alexei Ramirez

LF Jared Mitchell/ Walker/ Thompson/ Kelly Johnson

 

Against LHP

CF Coco Crisp

2B Gordon Beckham

RF Alex Rios

1B Adam Dunn

DH Dayan Viciedo

C Brian McCann

SS Alexei Ramirez

3B Jeff Keppinger/ Conor Gillaspie

LF Mitchell/ Walker/ Thompson

 

Another 80-90 win team with good pitching, treads water while the minors hopefully start to produce and sheds big money after season (Dunn, Rios, Peavy)

 

 

That puts us in danger of just reinforcing the downturn period we're going into.

 

FWIW, it's a possibility that Rios could play CF or LF if he had to...it's not 100% that he would have to play RF FOR ANOTHER TEAM, IF TRADED.

 

By "dumping" DeAza for less than his full market value and buying "up" on Crisp at his age, you're taking a HUGE risk. Look at Crisp's age versus DeAza, his injury history over the last five years, his OPS numbers....you're going to lose on this move 80% of the time.

 

Since 2007, Crisp has only played in 118, 49, 75, 136 and 120 games. He's on the 15 day DL, yet again.

 

We don't want to make our line-up older, we want it to be players close to their prime, in their 20's (26-30).

 

Next, Kelly Johnson? A 678 OPS over a full season is not the recipe to fixing our team....and he's not a very good defensive player, to put it mildly. Plus, if you're building for the future, you don't want to get all these players already in their 30's.

 

Once again, we've already added Keppinger from the Rays, if we're going "super utility" it should be someone like Ben Zobrist who is definitely an impact player (but too expensive to acquire talent-wise).

 

Actually, it would have made just as much sense to make Beckham the "super utility" guy, save the money we spent on Keppinger and find a better 2B than Beckham, to be honest.

 

No issue with McCann, because we desperately need a catcher any way we can find one...just depends on the price and doing due diligence on his health. (Like the Napoli situation in Boston).

Edited May 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

We aren't trading/dumping a bunch of pieces only to go out into free agency and sign big named players. If we dump, we are done.

[Balta1701]

We aren't trading/dumping a bunch of pieces only to go out into free agency and sign big named players. If we dump, we are done.

The one guy I could possibly see the Sox deciding to move is Peavy (unless someone is willing to take Dunn's deal on), considering that if Danks comes back they're sitting at 6 effective starting pitchers even without floyd. Move Peavy and the Sox could legitimately have $40 million or more to spend next offseason to get back to the salary they have today.

 

And if they want to rapidly upgrade their offense...that's Cano money, and as far as I'm concerned the Sox have a hole at 2b right now.

[Dick Allen]

The one guy I could possibly see the Sox deciding to move is Peavy (unless someone is willing to take Dunn's deal on), considering that if Danks comes back they're sitting at 6 effective starting pitchers even without floyd. Move Peavy and the Sox could legitimately have $40 million or more to spend next offseason to get back to the salary they have today.

 

And if they want to rapidly upgrade their offense...that's Cano money, and as far as I'm concerned the Sox have a hole at 2b right now.

Don't forget the extra $25 million each team will get. Some have already spent the money. The Sox haven't. Player prices are going to rise, but the Sox will have some money to throw at some hitters if they so choose. The problem is the high priced free agents lately, haven't played up to their contracts.

[Balta1701]

Don't forget the extra $25 million each team will get. Some have already spent the money. The Sox haven't. Player prices are going to rise, but the Sox will have some money to throw at some hitters if they so choose. The problem is the high priced free agents lately, haven't played up to their contracts.

That's the real issue with free agent purchases.

 

I don't think any out of Cano, McCann, etc., will actually play up to their contract, particularly over the long run. That's just the reality of how free agency works now that the steroid era is over. They'll get 5-7 year contracts and you hope that they're seriously productive for the first 3.

 

But its painfully obvious that the fans of this team have no interest in putting up with "Giving young players on the field time to develop". They strike out too much and get called boring.

[witesoxfan]

For everything he does, Cano would be the biggest get. I don't see any way the Yankees let him go.

[Dick Allen]

That's the real issue with free agent purchases.

 

I don't think any out of Cano, McCann, etc., will actually play up to their contract, particularly over the long run. That's just the reality of how free agency works now that the steroid era is over. They'll get 5-7 year contracts and you hope that they're seriously productive for the first 3.

 

But its painfully obvious that the fans of this team have no interest in putting up with "Giving young players on the field time to develop". They strike out too much and get called boring.

That's what I don't understand about a lot of the poster that think the Sox need to totally rebuild. They are the fastest to judge players as being busts. I really think some of them want the Sox to rebuild so they are guaranteed 4 or 5 years of complaining about everything.

[witesoxfan]

That's what I don't understand about a lot of the poster that think the Sox need to totally rebuild. They are the fastest to judge players as being busts. I really think some of them want the Sox to rebuild so they are guaranteed 4 or 5 years of complaining about everything.

 

And not having to worry about games. When the team is expected to be bad, you don't lose sleep at night when the team loses.

[southsider2k5]

Don't forget the extra $25 million each team will get. Some have already spent the money. The Sox haven't. Player prices are going to rise, but the Sox will have some money to throw at some hitters if they so choose. The problem is the high priced free agents lately, haven't played up to their contracts.

 

Unless the assumption is the Sox would have cut another $25 million in payroll after last years fall in attendance.