Sox setting up for the end of the Konerko era?

[Balta1701]

Unless the assumption is the Sox would have cut another $25 million in payroll after last years fall in attendance.

That ought to be expressed in this year's payroll though, right?

[Dick Allen]

If the Sox had signed Josh Hamilton this past offseason, most of us would have been doing cartwheels. If he had the same numbers he had now, Hahn would be called an idiot, Manto obviously would be an idiot, and people would be saying his contract has sent the franchise back 10 years.

Choosing the right guys to give the money to isn't easy. See Dunn, Adam. If the Sox go that route, and I would imagine they are going to spend some money next offseason with some coming off and the extra TV cash, it will be interesting to see who they spend it on.

[Chicago White Sox]

For everything he does, Cano would be the biggest get. I don't see any way the Yankees let him go.

Cano would be the perfect addition from a production standpoint, but he's going to get crazy money. And quite frankly, I don't see how the Sox can outbid the Yankees for him.

 

I do think Chase Utley could be had, especially if you jump early while other teams are waiting on Cano. It would have to be a short-term deal, because he's starting to get up there in age.

 

However, I think if you go after one big free agent Brian McCann would make the most sense. He'd be a tremendous upgrade over Flowers, is still relatively young (turns 30 next year), and hits enough to be a decent DH if it came to that near the end of his contract.

[Chicago White Sox]

If the Sox had signed Josh Hamilton this past offseason, most of us would have been doing cartwheels. If he had the same numbers he had now, Hahn would be called an idiot, Manto obviously would be an idiot, and people would be saying his contract has sent the franchise back 10 years.

Choosing the right guys to give the money to isn't easy. See Dunn, Adam. If the Sox go that route, and I would imagine they are going to spend some money next offseason with some coming off and the extra TV cash, it will be interesting to see who they spend it on.

You basically have to spend on offense or rebuild the team. Both are risky propositions, but I'll try my luck in free agency rather than take on a 5 to 7 year rebuilding project.

[Dick Allen]

You basically have to spend on offense or rebuild the team. Both are risky propositions, but I'll try my luck in free agency rather than take on a 5 to 7 year rebuilding project.

So would I, especially considering the track record the team has developing hitters.

[caulfield12]

It's insane to spend all that money on Cano, especially as he's already on the wrong side of 30 and there will always be questions about the true ages of Latin American players.

 

If we've learned anything in the last decade, it's to spread out our bets across a number of players.

 

Ideally, they would be younger players in their primes, but if you look at the tried and true 2005 example, AJ/Pods/Dye/El Duque/Hermanson/Vizcaino/Iguchi were all at 30 or close to that age.

 

Of course, that team didn't stay together for very long, except for some of the core components. There was certainly no lasting dynasty.

 

We just can't afford to put all our eggs in just a few baskets due to the Dunn and Danks deals. We have to spread out and mitigate the risk of a big deal going bad.

 

They should make an effort to limit their deals to 2-3 years. Find the "bargain" players like a Willingham here, a Mark Reynolds there, Kendrys Morales, Ichiro, Travis Hafner, Eric Chavez, Lance Berkman....the next Jose Bautista or Raul Ibanez, etc.

 

 

So far, things have worked out very well with Gillaspie.

 

Sox fans should have no complaints about prospects...if those prospects are truly talented players.

 

It's when you see guys like Tekotte getting AB's or making fundamental mistakes that fans get frustrated....like with Ray Olmedo last year.

 

Viciedo, Beckham and even Flowers all have talent. That's why they deserve as much time as possible to prove their worth....Viciedo, Gillaspie and Flowers in particular. In a perfect world, we would have made Beckham the super utility guy (instead of buying high on Keppinger) and found a permanent solution at 2B.

 

If we can get an Utley or even Dan Uggla type on the cheap, so be it. We have to find offense at every possible position, especially if we're going to deal Ramirez and get out from under his contract, the odds of Sanchez putting up more than a 625 OPS aren't very high. So we'll need to find another 50-75 OPS points at another position to make up for that.

 

 

 

 

[Marty34]

I was only suggesting two of the three, most likely Morales and either McCann or Utley. I don't think we'd need to move Peavy to accomplish that. The point is improving the offense without sacrificing the rotation.

 

Can't be done sufficiently, imo.

[Balta1701]

Can't be done sufficiently, imo.

Why? If Danks comes back, we're already sitting on 6 major league caliber starters, and that's without even considering that there seems to be more on the way in the minors.

[Jake]

Morales makes the most sense and at the moment I don't think he's going to get a huge payday. He may even try for a short term deal so he can get back into free agency, which would be okay with us.

 

McCann might get overpaid for a soon to be 30 year old catcher. Utley is a big risk too, but his age might drive down his price.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why? If Danks comes back, we're already sitting on 6 major league caliber starters, and that's without even considering that there seems to be more on the way in the minors.

Looking at potential names for 2014 rotation:

 

Sale

Peavy

Danks

Quintana

Santiago

Johnson

Axelrod

 

That's 7 guys, and that isn't including guys who may emerge as the season goes on like Castro or Snodgress.

 

I'd tend to agree that the Sox' best assets for trading are rotation arms, and they may need to look at trading one of them (or even two potentially).

 

[NorthSideSox72]

By the way, with all the talk of McCann, just want to throw out there... Phegley has a .318/.402/.588 line and a reasonable K rate down in Charlotte this year. He's been healthy for a few years straight now (which was the biggest concern with him), and reports are that his defense has improved a lot. He's 25, but this is a guy who was a 1st round Supplemental pick. Don't count him out as a possibility for 2014 if he keeps this up.

 

[Dick Allen]

By the way, with all the talk of McCann, just want to throw out there... Phegley has a .318/.402/.588 line and a reasonable K rate down in Charlotte this year. He's been healthy for a few years straight now (which was the biggest concern with him), and reports are that his defense has improved a lot. He's 25, but this is a guy who was a 1st round Supplemental pick. Don't count him out as a possibility for 2014 if he keeps this up.

I would imagine Phegley is just about to get a shot. If they want to be "fair" to Flowers, I would say give him a couple more weeks to see if he can turn it around, but 27 year olds with lifetime batting aberages under .200 generally don't become solid hitters. At the very least, bring up Phegley and see what he can do in Gimenez's spot. It's not like the Sox are losing anything there even if Phegley can't play. Hahn has to be at the point where he has to do something, and Phegley seems the easiest and most logical.

[Marty34]

Why? If Danks comes back, we're already sitting on 6 major league caliber starters, and that's without even considering that there seems to be more on the way in the minors.

 

Are you going to repair what's wrong with this offense in one year with the likes of Utley and Morales? I think you're asking for more trouble if you sign those aging stopgaps.

[southsider2k5]

If this team really proves to be as bad as people think, we aren't going out and adding top free agents. That doesn't even make any sense. If this is really a 90 loss team, we are getting bunches of minor leaguers from other teams for our vets. We aren't adding a McCann, Utley, or anyone else making 8 figures annually.

[NorthSideSox72]

If this team really proves to be as bad as people think, we aren't going out and adding top free agents. That doesn't even make any sense. If this is really a 90 loss team, we are getting bunches of minor leaguers from other teams for our vets. We aren't adding a McCann, Utley, or anyone else making 8 figures annually.

I think people are throwing around those names for 2014, not this season. I'd hope. And with the money freed up, I think an FA pickup or two are definitely possible.

 

[Dick Allen]

If this team really proves to be as bad as people think, we aren't going out and adding top free agents. That doesn't even make any sense. If this is really a 90 loss team, we are getting bunches of minor leaguers from other teams for our vets. We aren't adding a McCann, Utley, or anyone else making 8 figures annually.

The problem with that is the Sox don't have many guys for whom they can get really good prospects. The Simon Castro types are the best they can hope for except for Sale and perhaps Peavy, and if you trade those guys, then you are right, and the Sox will be bad for years, and several people on this site will be very happy. If they keep their pitching intact, they just need a couple bats to be contending again. This team right now, if they could score, would be pretty good. Even the biggest pessimists couldn't see the offense slip this far.

 

I do think they are far better off having to look for bats than for arms. I hope they don't ruin that strength.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

I think people are throwing around those names for 2014, not this season. I'd hope. And with the money freed up, I think an FA pickup or two are definitely possible.

 

If this really does end up as a 90 loss team, we aren't adding big dollar free agents. Attendance is already down about 20% or 4000 a game. If we are this bad still when the summer months hit, that number will crater, especially if we start selling off guys like Jake Peavy. We would probably end up at about 15k a game, which would really destroy any idea of adding players. The only way we add free agents is if this team recovers and plays like they can, and they get fans out to the ballpark.

[Marty34]

If this really does end up as a 90 loss team, we aren't adding big dollar free agents. Attendance is already down about 20% or 4000 a game. If we are this bad still when the summer months hit, that number will crater, especially if we start selling off guys like Jake Peavy. We would probably end up at about 15k a game, which would really destroy any idea of adding players. The only way we add free agents is if this team recovers and plays like they can, and they get fans out to the ballpark.

 

I thought attendance was even with last year? Jake Peavy is not the difference between 22k a night and 15k.

[caulfield12]

If this really does end up as a 90 loss team, we aren't adding big dollar free agents. Attendance is already down about 20% or 4000 a game. If we are this bad still when the summer months hit, that number will crater, especially if we start selling off guys like Jake Peavy. We would probably end up at about 15k a game, which would really destroy any idea of adding players. The only way we add free agents is if this team recovers and plays like they can, and they get fans out to the ballpark.

 

 

That's 1.2 million in attendance.

 

The White Sox are guaranteed 1.5 million in ticket sales, so the state subsidies would kick in at that point.

 

Not to mention that attendance is only 27% of their revenues.

 

If they are THAT bad...they'll have no choice but to either go completely young and rebuild or to do a massive retooling in the offseason (around their starting rotation) with at least 3 new FA additions in order to keep all their season ticket holders from deserting.

 

The White Sox are already getting the idea that standing pat and adding Jeff Keppinger and Tyler Flowers to the line-up isn't going to convince anyone they're fielding a competitive line-up. Heck, our offense isn't even close to the Cubs' offense.

 

One can only imagine, with how tight state budgets are....what a massive public relations fiasco it would be for a baseball team worth almost one billion dollars to be begging for money from the state of Illinois because they can't even produce a product that anyone will buy into, despite the lowered ticket prices.

Edited May 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[Steve9347]

I think the White Sox should be AROUND Paul Konerko. He's only 37.

[caulfield12]

If this really does end up as a 90 loss team, we aren't adding big dollar free agents. Attendance is already down about 20% or 4000 a game. If we are this bad still when the summer months hit, that number will crater, especially if we start selling off guys like Jake Peavy. We would probably end up at about 15k a game, which would really destroy any idea of adding players. The only way we add free agents is if this team recovers and plays like they can, and they get fans out to the ballpark.

 

 

That's 1.2 million in attendance.

 

The White Sox are guaranteed 1.5 million in ticket sales, so the state subsidies would kick in at that point.

 

Not to mention that attendance is only 27% of their revenues.

 

If they are THAT bad...they'll have no choice but to either go completely young and rebuild or to do a massive retooling in the offseason (around their starting rotation) in order to keep all their season ticket holders from deserting.

 

The White Sox are already getting the idea that standing pat and adding Jeff Keppinger and Tyler Flowers to the line-up isn't going to convince anyone they're fielding a competitive line-up. Heck, our offense isn't even close to the Cubs' offense.

 

One can only imagine, with how tight state budgets are....what a massive public relations fiasco it would be for a baseball team worth almost one billion dollars to be begging for money from the state of Illinois because they can't even produce a product that anyone will buy into, despite the lowered ticket prices.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I thought attendance was even with last year? Jake Peavy is not the difference between 22k a night and 15k.

 

20k, not 22k now. Down from 24k last year.

 

And the message of trading Jake Peavy will collapse attendance. The legacy of White Flag is not dead in this town.

[southsider2k5]

That's 1.2 million in attendance.

 

The White Sox are guaranteed 1.5 million in ticket sales, so the state subsidies would kick in at that point.

 

Not to mention that attendance is only 27% of their revenues.

 

If they are THAT bad...they'll have no choice but to either go completely young and rebuild or to do a massive retooling in the offseason (around their starting rotation) with at least 3 new FA additions in order to keep all their season ticket holders from deserting.

 

The White Sox are already getting the idea that standing pat and adding Jeff Keppinger and Tyler Flowers to the line-up isn't going to convince anyone they're fielding a competitive line-up. Heck, our offense isn't even close to the Cubs' offense.

 

One can only imagine, with how tight state budgets are....what a massive public relations fiasco it would be for a baseball team worth almost one billion dollars to be begging for money from the state of Illinois because they can't even produce a product that anyone will buy into, despite the lowered ticket prices.

 

What makes you think if attendance and ratings collapse that advertisers won't flee as well?

[caulfield12]

If this really does end up as a 90 loss team, we aren't adding big dollar free agents. Attendance is already down about 20% or 4000 a game. If we are this bad still when the summer months hit, that number will crater, especially if we start selling off guys like Jake Peavy. We would probably end up at about 15k a game, which would really destroy any idea of adding players. The only way we add free agents is if this team recovers and plays like they can, and they get fans out to the ballpark.

 

 

 

First 14 home games of 2012=263,571

First 14 home games of 2013=281,472

 

And, we opened with the Tigers in 2012, as well as playing the Red Sox during that timeframe, a much more favorable schedule for drawing fans.

[caulfield12]

What makes you think if attendance and ratings collapse that advertisers won't flee as well?

 

 

They are already.

 

Classic business dilemma.

 

They can go with complete "austerity" and cut back across the board and try to weather the storm, but we've heard for YEARS they can't afford not to try to field a competitive team.

 

If they aren't willing to DO SOMETHING, they deserve their fate. They're not owed attendance by intelligent White Sox fans, they're owed it by the State of Illinois.