Sox setting up for the end of the Konerko era?

[Chicago White Sox]

Because Peavy is far from a guarantee of pitching at a high level for much longer.

Name more than a handful of pitchers that are? Verlander and who???

[Dick Allen]

Because Peavy is far from a guarantee of pitching at a high level for much longer.

 

Neither are the players you would get back either, so why acquire them? I would think track record is good for something.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Marty34]

Name more than a handful of pitchers that are? Verlander and who???

 

Exactly my point.

[southsider2k5]

If the team is 10+ out, is that really a White Flag trade?

 

Comparing the two is ridiculous.

 

It doesn't matter. This is the White Sox fan base we are talking about here. This is a team that couldn't get fans to go with being in first place for 126 days last year, and has every excuse in the book not to go anyway. This is also a town that was calling the Edwin Jackson trade of two years ago a white flag deal. Edwin Jackson had no where near the standing and representation as Jake Peavy does.

 

A better question would be what proof is there that attendance wouldn't collapse? What proof is there that Sox fans would stand behind an obvious rebuild, because I sure don't see it.

[Balta1701]

It doesn't matter. This is the White Sox fan base we are talking about here. This is a team that couldn't get fans to go with being in first place for 126 days last year, and has every excuse in the book not to go anyway. This is also a town that was calling the Edwin Jackson trade of two years ago a white flag deal. Edwin Jackson had no where near the standing and representation as Jake Peavy does.

 

A better question would be what proof is there that attendance wouldn't collapse? What proof is there that Sox fans would stand behind an obvious rebuild, because I sure don't see it.

I know the one thing I keep thinking when I watch the commenters here is..."Boy, these guys would be so incredibly ready to allow a prospect to struggle for a couple years while they develop, their patience is christ-like."

[southsider2k5]

I know the one thing I keep thinking when I watch the commenters here is..."Boy, these guys would be so incredibly ready to allow a prospect to struggle for a couple years while they develop, their patience is christ-like."

 

A team full of prospects sounds like something that would break posting records at Soxtalk.

[IlliniKrush]

It doesn't matter. This is the White Sox fan base we are talking about here. This is a team that couldn't get fans to go with being in first place for 126 days last year, and has every excuse in the book not to go anyway. This is also a town that was calling the Edwin Jackson trade of two years ago a white flag deal. Edwin Jackson had no where near the standing and representation as Jake Peavy does.

 

A better question would be what proof is there that attendance wouldn't collapse? What proof is there that Sox fans would stand behind an obvious rebuild, because I sure don't see it.

If the team's in last place, attendance will suck anyway.

 

But again, calling this a White Flag trade is just wrong. During the actual White Flag trade, fans saw 3GB and said wait a minute, they have a chance. Last place? That's not the same thing. No one's saying OMG they gave up on the season.

 

You know what draws attendance? Playoffs and championships. Do whatever you think gets you there. Treading water sucks. You can't handcuff your front office because "wait, the attendance might go from 15K to 12K in August/September" if we trade a few guys.

[Jerksticks]

The Sox have no choice but to do the half and half rebuild/retool thing. I have seen good points on here though. I don't think they trade Rios or Peavy unless they are blown away by an offer. OTOH, some of the bullpen pieces should be shopped and dealt away (Crain, Thornton, Lindstrom). I would even trade Konerko if you could get something back in return. De Aza should be available and I would deal Ramirez for a good return as well. The surplus of pitching is nice as well as the intriguing starts by Erik Johnson and Chris Beck. If the Sox added McCann, Morales types in the offseason and made one big trade including one of the young pitchers (Quintana) with Beckham and more, they could compete next year. They would have a better offense and a rotation that includes Sale, Danks, Peavy, Santiago/Quintana, and hopefully Erik Johnson. It could work. I would be on board with the full blown rebuild but many would not be. It's probably not possible with this fanbase.

 

What makes a rebuild full-blown anyway? Our pipeline of pitching is pretty rock solid which means we will always be somewhat competitive. Our offense doesn't score runs as is so selling all those guys won't make us lose many more games. So therefore out draft position won't move up much; we'll never draft much higher than 8-12 with our pitching stables being so young and deep. So does selling all our pitching, major and minor league, constitute a full-blown rebuild? Then we'd officially suck in all facets of baseball and maybe get some high draft picks that'll pan out by 2018-2020. Cool.

[iamshack]

I know the one thing I keep thinking when I watch the commenters here is..."Boy, these guys would be so incredibly ready to allow a prospect to struggle for a couple years while they develop, their patience is christ-like."

I don't really think this observation is accurate...what prospect did we not have patience with that has turned into some success story that we had all left for dead here?

[southsider2k5]

If the team's in last place, attendance will suck anyway.

 

But again, calling this a White Flag trade is just wrong. During the actual White Flag trade, fans saw 3GB and said wait a minute, they have a chance. Last place? That's not the same thing. No one's saying OMG they gave up on the season.

 

You know what draws attendance? Playoffs and championships. Do whatever you think gets you there. Treading water sucks. You can't handcuff your front office because "wait, the attendance might go from 15K to 12K in August/September" if we trade a few guys.

 

It will be called a White Flag trade, and that is how the fans in this town will portray it. It doesn't matter where we are in the standings.

 

Label it how you like, but if trading Edwin Jackson (ending his deal) and Mark Teahen (who sucked) can be labeled as White Flag, trading Jake Peavy (who is still one of the better pitchers in the AL, and has at least 1 more year on his deal, potentially 2) is a way bigger deal to the franchise.

 

And yes, the White Sox do have to take into account how their fan base will react to trades. If they run their fan base off like they did after White Flag, it will be a really long time until fans come back again. To a company running a business, having a customer is pretty important.

[southsider2k5]

I don't really think this observation is accurate...what prospect did we not have patience with that has turned into some success story that we had all left for dead here?

 

Does it really matter? If the perception keeps people away from the ballpark, that is all that really matters in terms of how the franchise can rebuild itself. The number one reason we haven't see a full rebuild for the White Sox is because the fan base won't support it. If Sox fans were more like Cub fans in the sense that they would support a few years of bad baseball, the organization could have more patience in a rebuild. Instead they are in the position where a rebuild on the fly is the only real option.

[IlliniKrush]

It will be called a White Flag trade, and that is how the fans in this town will portray it. It doesn't matter where we are in the standings.

 

Label it how you like, but if trading Edwin Jackson (ending his deal) and Mark Teahen (who sucked) can be labeled as White Flag, trading Jake Peavy (who is still one of the better pitchers in the AL, and has at least 1 more year on his deal, potentially 2) is a way bigger deal to the franchise.

 

And yes, the White Sox do have to take into account how their fan base will react to trades. If they run their fan base off like they did after White Flag, it will be a really long time until fans come back again. To a company running a business, having a customer is pretty important.

No. At some point it's not, to me it's when it's a last place team.

 

You know what it's called? Trying to improve your team. If idiots want to say it's giving up, who cares. What does this effect? It's not like they would have been jumping at the chance to attend a September game for a last place team.

 

Do something that improves your team to make them competitive to win championships. That's the only thing that matters. Rest takes care of itself. Because watching this s***fest year after year, even if they have "star" players, won't keep customers loyal either.

 

Everyone is far too worried about attendance.

Edited May 8, 2013 by IlliniKrush

[iamshack]

Does it really matter? If the perception keeps people away from the ballpark, that is all that really matters in terms of how the franchise can rebuild itself. The number one reason we haven't see a full rebuild for the White Sox is because the fan base won't support it. If Sox fans were more like Cub fans in the sense that they would support a few years of bad baseball, the organization could have more patience in a rebuild. Instead they are in the position where a rebuild on the fly is the only real option.

Well I am not sure it really matters...the fan base isn't supporting much of anything now, to be honest...how much would the dropoff really be?

 

I'm not advocating trading away everyone by any means, but is there anyone on this team that the fanbase really gives a s*** about other than Konerko?

[southsider2k5]

No. At some point it's not, to me it's when it's a last place team.

 

You know what it's called? Trying to improve your team. If idiots want to say it's giving up, who cares. What does this effect? It's not like they would have been jumping at the chance to attend a September game for a last place team.

 

Do something that improves your team to make them competitive to win championships. That's the only thing that matters. Rest takes care of itself. Because watching this s***fest year after year, even if they have "star" players, won't keep customers loyal either.

 

Everyone is far too worried about attendance.

 

Idiots buy ticket too. As for the line about attendance, it is important. It is like a business saying that profits don't matter.

[southsider2k5]

Well I am not sure it really matters...the fan base isn't supporting much of anything now, to be honest...how much would the dropoff really be?

 

I'm not advocating trading away everyone by any means, but is there anyone on this team that the fanbase really gives a s*** about other than Konerko?

 

Look at the Sox attendance history.

[Dick Allen]

Trading your best players doesn't necessarily improve your team. Trading Peavy for a prospect or 2 would indicate the White Sox aren't planning on contending anytime soon, and would probably really take a bite out of 2014 season ticket renewals.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Dick Allen

[IlliniKrush]

Idiots buy ticket too. As for the line about attendance, it is important. It is like a business saying that profits don't matter.

Winning something significant = attendance. Do something to get there, not base all decisions off attendance from a last place team.

[Balta1701]

I don't really think this observation is accurate...what prospect did we not have patience with that has turned into some success story that we had all left for dead here?

How long has it taken for guys like Tyler Flowers to be declared failures? How long did it take you to declare that Viciedo would never learn to hit? Axelrod didn't even get a chance to start before people wanted him replaced because he didn't throw hard enough.

[Marty34]

It will be called a White Flag trade, and that is how the fans in this town will portray it. It doesn't matter where we are in the standings.

 

It has everything to do with standings. Sox fans know what time it is.

[iamshack]

Look at the Sox attendance history.

I am...

[NorthSideSox72]

It has everything to do with standings. Sox fans know what time it is.

Last year showed that, no, it does not have everything to do with standings. That is a factor, but not the only one. This team is terrible and is doing better than last year's squad... why? There are other factors at play. It would be nice if it were that simple, but it isn't.

 

[iamshack]

How long has it taken for guys like Tyler Flowers to be declared failures? How long did it take you to declare that Viciedo would never learn to hit? Axelrod didn't even get a chance to start before people wanted him replaced because he didn't throw hard enough.

That doesn't really answer the question...

[southsider2k5]

It has everything to do with standings. Sox fans know what time it is.

 

So a half a decade of last place teams is going to help attendance?

[Dick Allen]

After the White Flag trade, it took until 2005 for the White Sox attendance to be as high as it was in 2012. Not even a division title in 2000 drew as much as they did last year. The 6th straight year of decline.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Marty34]

How long has it taken for guys like Tyler Flowers to be declared failures? How long did it take you to declare that Viciedo would never learn to hit? Axelrod didn't even get a chance to start before people wanted him replaced because he didn't throw hard enough.

 

If your point is they need better prospects, I agree.