Sox setting up for the end of the Konerko era?

[witesoxfan]

It's very lonely around here being a Jordan Danks fan. But I would love to see him play more.

 

His numbers are similar to Rick Ankiel's. I'm not suggesting he's going to become a middle of the order hitter at any point in the near future, but he certainly has pop in his bat. With regular playing time he might turn into a decent player.

 

A guy who tops my personal list right now is Michael Taylor from Oakland. If there was something Oakland wanted for him in particular, I'd absolutely consider it. They have Michael Choice who is younger in AAA too, so he can be insurance for Reddick if need be. Give em Beckham and get Green, Weeks, or Barton back along with.

[witesoxfan]

Waitt... what? Jordan Danks at first base? Why the- What... his only tool is speed.

 

His Iso is .160 in 1300+ AAA plate appearances (which includes a .685 OPS his first year), and it's right around .200 over his previous 300 plate appearances at the level. He's got about 55 power too.

[Eminor3rd]

His numbers are similar to Rick Ankiel's. I'm not suggesting he's going to become a middle of the order hitter at any point in the near future, but he certainly has pop in his bat. With regular playing time he might turn into a decent player.

 

A guy who tops my personal list right now is Michael Taylor from Oakland. If there was something Oakland wanted for him in particular, I'd absolutely consider it. They have Michael Choice who is younger in AAA too, so he can be insurance for Reddick if need be. Give em Beckham and get Green, Weeks, or Barton back along with.

 

I really can't see him being more than a 4th OF. If he improved his defense a lot, maybe a second division CF.

 

To my eye, he's got maybe 50 grade power and MAYBE a 40 grade hit tool. Am I off base?

[witesoxfan]

I really can't see him being more than a 4th OF. If he improved his defense a lot, maybe a second division CF.

 

To my eye, he's got maybe 50 grade power and MAYBE a 40 grade hit tool. Am I off base?

 

I don't think so. Sub-mediocre hitter for average, average to above average power, terrible at making contact. Basically, if the Sox are going to sell pieces off this year, I wouldn't mind seeing him get a shot at extended playing time just to see if there is anything there. Unlike a lot of these other guys I've suggested, the Sox already have control of him.

[Eminor3rd]

His Iso is .160 in 1300+ AAA plate appearances (which includes a .685 OPS his first year), and it's right around .200 over his previous 300 plate appearances at the level. He's got about 55 power too.

 

I can see 55 power on the high end. And I think he has a decent approach. The problem is the long swing. It's the same thing with Tyler Flowers. He's got maybe 65 power, but the hit tool is probably 35, so you'll be happy if he reaches 20 homers. Could Danks hit 20 in a full season in the MLB? I can squint and see if he manages a .260 BA or so, but I can't see a .260 BA over a full season.

 

And all that's fine if he's playing a scratch or slightly above average CF, but at first base? I mean a very good season would look like .250/.320/.430 with 20 bombs, right? I'll take .220/.340/.520 with 35 bombs from post-prime Adam Dunn instead. And that season from Dunn has to be way more likely.

 

EDIT: but yes, in a situation where pieces move, there's no reason not to use him rather than a stopgap FA.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[witesoxfan]

I can see 55 power on the high end. And I think he has a decent approach. The problem is the long swing. It's the same thing with Tyler Flowers. He's got maybe 65 power, but the hit tool is probably 35, so you'll be happy if he reaches 20 homers. Could Danks hit 20 in a full season in the MLB? I can squint and see if he manages a .260 BA or so, but I can't see a .260 BA over a full season.

 

And all that's fine if he's playing a scratch or slightly above average CF, but at first base? I mean a very good season would look like .250/.320/.430 with 20 bombs, right? I'll take .220/.340/.520 with 35 bombs from post-prime Adam Dunn instead. And that season from Dunn has to be way more likely.

 

I'm with you 100%. I think first base is a stretch for him - if I'm going to take a chance on a guy at 1B, their ceiling with the bat has to be atleast 40-65/70 or 55-55 or whatever else you can come up with that's above average. Point being you NEED an above average bat compared to the overall league average at 1B, there's no other way around it. If you are below the league average offensively, then 99.9% you are wasting production (unless you are seriously dealing with 7 other individuals who are so far advanced offensively and defensively that your 8th or 9th best hitter is relegated to playing 1B). If it's a case like Konerko this year or 10 years ago, then there's nothing you can do about it, but going into the year with Jordan Danks at 1B is like going into the year with Darin Erstad at 1B.

 

(who said stat heads don't use scouting information)

[fathom]

Just as I was advocating for Matt Carpenter during the offseason, I think Matt Adams of the Cards could be someone the Sox would be interested in to take over at 1B. Something that seemed lost this offseason but has to be of importance if you want to compete in the AL Central is having hitters that can be tough outs against RHP.

[JoshPR]

Six year minor leaguer currently 27 years old. Big power, draws some walks and gets on base, strikes out a lot. K numbers improved slowly in past few years, but up again this year to high 20's in %. Hits lefthanded. Big dude, no speed, defense is decent from what I've seen. He's not really a prospect, but he's a good guy to have at AAA in case your 1B/DH types get hurt. He's not a long term plan for a major league club that wants to compete.

Sorry for the late response but thanks for the info. Sounds like he's a cheaper version of Adam Dunn

[caulfield12]

After the White Flag trade, it took until 2005 for the White Sox attendance to be as high as it was in 2012. Not even a division title in 2000 drew as much as they did last year. The 6th straight year of decline.

 

 

That's ALSO on the 1994 team being denied a chance to win the World Series, bitterness, mainly...and then going into "These Kids Can Play" phase when Thomas and Ventura were the only stars left on the team as they transitioned to Magglio, C-Lee, Durham and Konerko.

[caulfield12]

It is proof that Sox fans would rather see mediocre teams than awful teams.

 

As long as they hit, don't give up and play baseball fundamentally well. Fans can actually enjoy rooting for an underdog, like the 1990 White Sox.

 

If you're outgunned or out-talented, that's one thing.

 

Another part of the frustration was being able to sit back from 2002-2004 and wonder how the Twins kept beating us with inferior players.

 

At least that was addressed ONCE, coming into 2005.

[caulfield12]

If the Sox are looking to start moving players, I am targeting 25-28 year olds change of scenery or players who are blocked who are still producing at AAA. Three that come to mind right away in Pittsburgh are Alex Presley, Jerry Sands, and Ivan DeJesus (though Sands doesn't quite fit the criteria as he's been dreadful this year). You can get a lot of these types of players for below their value and for smaller pieces (primarily low level prospects, mediocre starting players, and relievers) and they can contribute to your team immediately.

 

You obviously want to get young players and prospects, but these others seem to present themselves to a quick rebuild and, at least in my mind, they are just as likely to be successful. I think the reason teams avoid this route is because you can find out, fairly quickly, that the player does not fit in with the team, they become virtually valueless, and then they are out of options and you lose them within a 6-12 month time frame anyways, where as with 21-24 year olds, you let them develop for a year or two, they don't get it, and then you release them almost anonymously (which is what happened with Jon Gilmore).

 

Or Pedro Alvarez. Alex Gordon when he was in the minors adjusting to OF play and many around baseball were giving up on him, etc.

 

Of course, you have to be just as careful to do your "due diligence" and not end up with the Brandon Woods of the world.

 

SEA was "set for a generation" with Ackley and Smoak on board. Not working out exactly as planned.

[caulfield12]

His numbers are similar to Rick Ankiel's. I'm not suggesting he's going to become a middle of the order hitter at any point in the near future, but he certainly has pop in his bat. With regular playing time he might turn into a decent player.

 

A guy who tops my personal list right now is Michael Taylor from Oakland. If there was something Oakland wanted for him in particular, I'd absolutely consider it. They have Michael Choice who is younger in AAA too, so he can be insurance for Reddick if need be. Give em Beckham and get Green, Weeks, or Barton back along with.

 

 

Heck, if Reddick keeps playing so poorly, and OAK certainly considers itself a playoff contender, especially with the Angels flailing....they might have no choice but to trade him if he doesn't get things figured out relatively quickly.

[caulfield12]

I'm with you 100%. I think first base is a stretch for him - if I'm going to take a chance on a guy at 1B, their ceiling with the bat has to be atleast 40-65/70 or 55-55 or whatever else you can come up with that's above average. Point being you NEED an above average bat compared to the overall league average at 1B, there's no other way around it. If you are below the league average offensively, then 99.9% you are wasting production (unless you are seriously dealing with 7 other individuals who are so far advanced offensively and defensively that your 8th or 9th best hitter is relegated to playing 1B). If it's a case like Konerko this year or 10 years ago, then there's nothing you can do about it, but going into the year with Jordan Danks at 1B is like going into the year with Darin Erstad at 1B.

 

(who said stat heads don't use scouting information)

 

 

Hence, the Viciedo to 1B campaign.

 

Based mostly on "potential" from Dayan, and the desire to improve the range and defensive ability of the outfield overall in LF and CF (depending on what the heck happens with DeAza).

 

Of course, for that to work, you need Trayce Thompson to morph into Torii Hunter Lite.

 

 

[fathom]

Unless Viciedo forgets how to field his position, they're better off keeping him in LF. If you move him to 1B, you're wasting one of his strongest tools, which is his arm.

[caulfield12]

Unless Viciedo forgets how to field his position, they're better off keeping him in LF. If you move him to 1B, you're wasting one of his strongest tools, which is his arm.

 

 

Agreed. He was better than most thought he would be coming into last year, although he's obviously still prone to mistakes out there.

 

Despite protests to the contrary, it's easier to find a 1B/DH type (Berkman/Chavez/Carlos Pena/Reynolds) type of player on the market than it is to find a younger, league average LF with the potential and youth to be a lot better. In fact, the one player in our organization who's younger than 25 who has the ability to carry a team on his back for 7-10 days.

 

 

As for those complaining about White Flag trades, if were a White Sox fan in New York and brought your family to one game per year....and saw this line-up, how would you NOT consider it giving up, lol?

 

Wise 6th? Gillaspie 4th? Tyler Greene?

 

If nothing else, Ventura is at least TRYING to shake things up a bit. I'll give him that. But geez, we're already worse than the Astros and Marlins offensively...can it really get much worse than it already is? (Knock on wood).

Edited May 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Unless Viciedo forgets how to field his position, they're better off keeping him in LF. If you move him to 1B, you're wasting one of his strongest tools, which is his arm.

 

Not to mention he is pretty short for a 1B

[caulfield12]

Not to mention he is pretty short for a 1B

 

But, OTOH, he's a big target physically (full-figured, lol) and he can jump quite a bit higher than Paulie.

[caulfield12]

Not to mention he is pretty short for a 1B

 

But, OTOH, he's a big target physically (full-figured, lol) and he can jump quite a bit higher than Paulie.

 

Should have more lateral range. Not sure about "quickness," though. Crede was never fast at anything, but he had amazingly quick reactions and first steps to stop balls that looked like they were going through.

[caulfield12]

By Dylan Hernandez, Los Angeles Times

May 9, 2013

 

The Dodgers' president said Wednesday that the team's paying customers deserve a better on-field product than they've seen so far.

 

"They've been extraordinarily supportive," Stan Kasten said. "We owe it to them to deliver."

 

The team's new owners fielded an opening-day roster with a payroll of $230 million and spent more than $100 million upgrading Dodger Stadium. Fans responded by purchasing the equivalent of 31,000 full-season ticket packages, a franchise record.

 

But Kasten said he is aware that the fan base's renewed enthusiasm could wane if the last-place Dodgers maintain their current form.

 

"We're running a business and the business involves satisfying your customers," Kasten said. "It's job one on day one. It's always that. I'm always mindful."

 

The owners share the fans' pain, Kasten said.

 

"We're as disappointed as any fans are about the slow start and the difficulty we've had so far," Kasten said. "I'm expecting it to turn around and I'm looking forward to it, because nights like the ones we've had in the last couple weeks are tough for all of us."

The Dodgers have already used the disabled list 14 times, but Kasten didn't use that as an excuse.

 

"Obviously, we'd like to have back the players we have here," Kasten said. "But that's certainly not an excuse. We should be doing better with the players that we have."

 

However, the owners don't appear to be in panic mode, as Kasten said he doesn't expect them to make any significant changes in player or management personnel any time soon.

 

"I haven't even started thinking like that," Kasten said. "I'm still expecting this to all work out."

 

Kasten said the Dodgers still have the wherewithal to make meaningful additions at the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, if necessary.

 

"We can do whatever we feel makes sense in the long term and short term," he said.

[witesoxfan]

This comparison is off. Even if Thompson panned out I don't see him turning into a Tori Hunter Lite. Thompson has a lifetime .239 in the minors. Tori Hunter is a .278 lifetime MLB hitter. IMO, Trayce Thompson comparables, if all goes well, are Drew Stubbs and Mike Cameron types.

 

I've said Stubbs a number of times, but Cameron works too. He was an incredibly valuable player.

[caulfield12]

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_232017...ron-hicks-after

 

 

Would love to see more "teachable moments" stories like this from Ventura as we transition our starting line-up...

[greg775]

Do the Dodgers or Angels have anything great to give up for Konerko, Rios and Peavy or any combinations of those 3? It seems to me they have the money and might need a leader like Konerko, an athlete like Rios or a bulldog like Peavy. Can we rob them?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Do the Dodgers or Angels have anything great to give up for Konerko, Rios and Peavy or any combinations of those 3? It seems to me they have the money and might need a leader like Konerko, an athlete like Rios or a bulldog like Peavy. Can we rob them?

 

What use do the Dodgers or Angels have for Konerko? You are talking about Adrian Gonzalez and Albert Pujols/Trumbo in those spots right now.

[caulfield12]

What use do the Dodgers or Angels have for Konerko? You are talking about Adrian Gonzalez and Albert Pujols/Trumbo in those spots right now.

 

 

Gonzalez is injured now, but he will be back fairly soon, so, yeah, that wouldn't make much sense...as there's no DH and no other possible position for him.

 

No way they would try to play him at 3B, it would be like Dye at SS.

[LittleHurt05]

Do the Dodgers or Angels have anything great to give up for Konerko, Rios and Peavy or any combinations of those 3? It seems to me they have the money and might need a leader like Konerko, an athlete like Rios or a bulldog like Peavy. Can we rob them?

 

If they had great players to give up, they wouldn't have had to spend $200 million on other teams' players.