What I Would Do

[Marty34]

No quick fixes here. First step is to get rid of as much money as possible (and Buddy Bell.)

 

1. Get rid of Buddy Bell.

2. Release Gimenez, bring up Phegley. See if either him or Flowers can be at least a back up catcher.

3. Put Ramirez on waivers, hope someone picks up that contract, replace him with Keppinger.

4. Deal De Aza, Rios, Peavy for certain. Put Danks in CF, Viciedo in RF. Heck, put Dunn in LF if for nothing else to keep him in shape.

 

[Dick Allen]

No quick fixes here. First step is to get rid of as much money as possible (and Buddy Bell.)

 

1. Get rid of Buddy Bell.

2. Release Gimenez, bring up Phegley. See if either him or Flowers can be at least a back up catcher.

3. Put Ramirez on waivers, hope someone picks up that contract, replace him with Keppinger.

4. Deal De Aza, Rios, Peavy for certain. Put Danks in CF, Viciedo in RF. Heck, put Dunn in LF if for nothing else to keep him in shape.

1 and 2 make sense. The others........you obviously want the Sox to be the Astros.

[Marty34]

1 and 2 make sense. The others........you obviously want the Sox to be the Astros.

 

The Sox are a 90-loss team as is.

[elrockinMT]

The Sox are a 90-loss team as is.

 

But, don't make them a 100 loss team

[Noonskadoodle]

Any Trouts or Strasburgs in next years draft?

[Paint it Black]

No quick fixes here. First step is to get rid of as much money as possible (and Buddy Bell.)

 

1. Get rid of Buddy Bell.

2. Release Gimenez, bring up Phegley. See if either him or Flowers can be at least a back up catcher.

3. Put Ramirez on waivers, hope someone picks up that contract, replace him with Keppinger.

4. Deal De Aza, Rios, Peavy for certain. Put Danks in CF, Viciedo in RF. Heck, put Dunn in LF if for nothing else to keep him in shape.

 

1- I actually think Bell has improved this system a lot. These things take time. And this is coming from someone who isn't impressed with 8 rookies playing last year.

2 - Whatever. I'm not going to argue about the 24th man on a roster. Long term I think Phegley is an NP

3 - Why? Ramirez has trade value and it's not like his contract is awful

4 - How does Ramirez not have trade value but De Aza does? IMO, De Aza has been flat out awful this year. Danks is another NP. I have never bought into the Viciedo is an impact bat that seems to go around here.

 

I mean I get what you're trying to accomplish here. I agree with you that this thing is over. And they ARE going to be the Astros in 2 years.

[caulfield12]

#2 doesn't even make sense, YET.

 

At the very minimum, Flowers deserves at least 3 months to prove himself as an everyday player, if not 4 or 5. Phegley's RH as well, there's no reason to rush him up to the big league club. Maybe he can be a decent "internal" candidate for DH/1B next year, if he doesn't profile as a full-time catcher (along with guys like Black or Wilkins that are probably not in the long-range plans).

 

#3 You want to take one of the 3 worst offensive players in baseball, and put him at the most important position on the field when he can't even play 2B that well? And he hasn't even played SS since 2007-08? Jesus. Playing Beckham at SS was 10X better as idea than Keppinger there would be.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...=Jeff-Keppinger

 

Next, why would you have to put him on waivers (Ramirez) and embarrass him when it would be a lot simpler to see what offers are out there? If you put him on waivers, then the only leverage you have is the team claiming him against itself. That's not prudent.

 

#4 What makes you think there's a huge market for leadoff hitters who are marginal in CF and have an OBP between 290-300?

 

Danks IS NOT AN EVERYDAY PLAYER. Nobody here, to my knowledge, at this entire website STILL thinks of him as being an everday major leaguer...

 

Finally, why is there a need to give up on the season the first week of May instead of letting the season play out for at least one more month?

 

What advantage to you get out of doing that? To find out Keppinger can't play SS, let alone any position, on an everyday basis? To find out that Danks can't hit well enough to hold down CF as an everyday player? To put yourself in even more of a position of desperation where every team in baseball knows you need a starting catcher, instead of leaving Phegley down in the minors longer, where you keep him as a valuable bargaining chip to walk away from any deal for a catcher that's not favorable enough.

 

So, to summarize, you've managed to completely destroy Keppinger for the rest of his Sox career, deal DeAza and Ramirez for almost nothing in return, give up on Tyler Flowers after one month and promote Phegley before he's 100% ready (he is the streakiest hitter in our minor league system, with the exception of Mitchell perhaps) and will fall flat on his face. Just because he's hitting well now (and his OPS is around 1000) doesn't mean there aren't holes in his game that the coaching staff and minor league hitting instructors realize will get exploited in a week at the major league level. On top of that, you've alienated whatever season ticket holders are left and any free agent interested in coming here in the next 2-3 years by trying to dump Peavy at the drop of a hat.

 

One can only wait with bated breath for your next strategic moves.

 

And there's not any incentive to deal Peavy until the mid-season market for starting pitchers emerges with 10-12 bidding against each other, instead of just a few teams willing to make a commitment at this point in the season to a higher salary veteran.

Edited May 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

1- I actually think Bell has improved this system a lot. These things take time. And this is coming from someone who isn't impressed with 8 rookies playing last year.

2 - Whatever. I'm not going to argue about the 24th man on a roster. Long term I think Phegley is an NP

3 - Why? Ramirez has trade value and it's not like his contract is awful

4 - How does Ramirez not have trade value but De Aza does? IMO, De Aza has been flat out awful this year. Danks is another NP. I have never bought into the Viciedo is an impact bat that seems to go around here.

 

I mean I get what you're trying to accomplish here. I agree with you that this thing is over. And they ARE going to be the Astros in 2 years.

 

 

 

The Astros started the season with Lucas Harrell and Phil Humber in their starting rotation.

 

Let's not confuse terribly struggling (White Sox) with just plain terrible.

 

 

Any team with Sale, Peavy, Santiago and Quintana in the rotation can at least be close to .500...with one of the worst offenses in baseball and making 2-3-4-5 mistakes per game.

 

This team isn't going to compete with DET, but they easily could be something like 17-16 if it weren't for all the defensive blunders.

 

The Astros are on a pace for something like 115 losses.

[caulfield12]

1- I actually think Bell has improved this system a lot. These things take time. And this is coming from someone who isn't impressed with 8 rookies playing last year.

2 - Whatever. I'm not going to argue about the 24th man on a roster. Long term I think Phegley is an NP

3 - Why? Ramirez has trade value and it's not like his contract is awful

4 - How does Ramirez not have trade value but De Aza does? IMO, De Aza has been flat out awful this year. Danks is another NP. I have never bought into the Viciedo is an impact bat that seems to go around here.

 

I mean I get what you're trying to accomplish here. I agree with you that this thing is over. And they ARE going to be the Astros in 2 years.

 

 

 

The Astros started the season with Lucas Harrell and Phil Humber in their starting rotation.

 

Let's not confuse terribly struggling (White Sox) with just plain terrible.

 

 

Any team with Sale, Peavy, Santiago and Quintana in the rotation can at least be close to .500...with one of the worst offenses in baseball and making 2-3-4-5 mistakes per game.

 

This team isn't going to compete with DET, but they easily could be something like 17-16 if it weren't for all the defensive blunders.

 

The Astros are on a pace for around like 115 losses.

Edited May 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[Paint it Black]

The Astros started the season with Lucas Harrell and Phil Humber in their starting rotation.

 

Let's not confuse terribly struggling (White Sox) with just plain terrible.

 

 

Any team with Sale, Peavy, Santiago and Quintana in the rotation can at least be close to .500...with one of the worst offenses in baseball and making 2-3-4-5 mistakes per game.

 

This team isn't going to compete with DET, but they easily could be something like 17-16 if it weren't for all the defensive blunders.

 

The Astros are on a pace for something like 115 losses.

 

Fair point. I should clarify. When I said "And they ARE going to be the Astros in 2 years" I simply meant easily one of the worst teams in baseball. The Astros before this season were an org with little impact minor league talent and little major league talent. That's what I think this club is going to be in 2 or 3 years.

[caulfield12]

This thread should be more appropriately titled: "What I would do if I was kidnapped and my family threatened by sleeper agents of the Detroit Tigers and forced to destroy the White Sox organization by any and all possible means from inside..."

[caulfield12]

Fair point. I should clarify. When I said "And they ARE going to be the Astros in 2 years" I simply meant easily one of the worst teams in baseball. The Astros before this season were an org with little impact minor league talent and little major league talent. That's what I think this club is going to be in 2 or 3 years.

 

Their minor league system is a LOT better than it was, with all the trades over the last couple of years for guys like Hunter Pence and Wandy Rodriguez.

 

They had the first pick in the MLB draft last year. They have the first pick again this year.

 

They're ranked around 8th-10th now, right?

 

Plus, after 2014, the Dunn contract will be off the books. That will leave POSSIBLY only one bad contract in Danks, and that's under the pessimistic assumption he'll never be the same pitcher he was pre-surgery.

Edited May 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

1- I actually think Bell has improved this system a lot. These things take time. And this is coming from someone who isn't impressed with 8 rookies playing last year.

2 - Whatever. I'm not going to argue about the 24th man on a roster. Long term I think Phegley is an NP

3 - Why? Ramirez has trade value and it's not like his contract is awful

4 - How does Ramirez not have trade value but De Aza does? IMO, De Aza has been flat out awful this year. Danks is another NP. I have never bought into the Viciedo is an impact bat that seems to go around here.

 

I mean I get what you're trying to accomplish here. I agree with you that this thing is over. And they ARE going to be the Astros in 2 years.

 

If you can get anything for Ramirez, by all means they need to do it to get rid of that contract. When you have Danks and Dunn's contracts having Ramirez "not that bad of a contract" is a luxury they can do without particularly because they are not going to win anything with him. De Aza can play a passable CF, hit a little, and most importantly is cheap. Any team in MLB can afford him that's why he has more trade value than Ramirez. Like Ramirez though, De Aza will be in decline by the time the Sox are good enough to win again.

 

I don't think Danks and Phegley are starters, but given they are the two best options the Sox have in Triple A there is nothing to lose at this point in giving them a chance. Same goes with Morel.

[Balta1701]

Their minor league system is a LOT better than it was, with all the trades over the last couple of years for guys like Hunter Pence and Wandy Rodriguez.

 

They had the first pick in the MLB draft last year. They have the first pick again this year.

 

They're ranked around 8th-10th now, right?

I know, how impressive is that? 4 straight losing seasons, 5 losing seasons in their last 6, fewer than 60 wins over the last 2 years, selling off every player they can figure out how to sell off, and they're barely a top 10 system! That's awesome, I know that's the decade I want for my team.

[Marty34]

I know, how impressive is that? 4 straight losing seasons, 5 losing seasons in their last 6, fewer than 60 wins over the last 2 years, selling off every player they can figure out how to sell off, and they're barely a top 10 system! That's awesome, I know that's the decade I want for my team.

 

Well . . . 1 playoff victory in seven years.

[Balta1701]

Well . . . 1 playoff victory in seven years.

Still a helluva lot better than the Astros. And yet people pretend that is somehow a positive result.

[caulfield12]

If you can get anything for Ramirez, by all means they need to do it to get rid of that contract. When you have Danks and Dunn's contracts having Ramirez "not that bad of a contract" is a luxury they can do without particularly because they are not going to win anything with him. De Aza can play a passable CF, hit a little, and most importantly is cheap. Any team in MLB can afford him that's why he has more trade value than Ramirez. Like Ramirez though, De Aza will be in decline by the time the Sox are good enough to win again.

 

I don't think Danks and Phegley are starters, but given they are the two best options the Sox have in Triple A there is nothing to lose at this point in giving them a chance. Same goes with Morel.

 

 

SS for Morel?

 

While we're at it, we should just let Phegley be the DH for the rest of the season with Black/Wilkins.

 

Are we deliberately trying to lose 110 games?

 

While we're STILL at it, why don't we just convert Micah Johnson to CF and he'll steal 100+ bags and be this year's version of John Cangelosi/Rudy Law/Ron LeFlore?

 

If you don't trust Buddy Bell, how do we know we won't ruin the 2nd or 3rd pick in the first round of the draft? (assuming that, no matter what you tried to do to the roster, you couldn't make them worse than Houston. And you couldn't get Hahn fired, who's a big supporter of Bell's.)

Edited May 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

Still a helluva lot better than the Astros. And yet people pretend that is somehow a positive result.

 

I could not give one damn about the Houston Astros. The Chicago White Sox have 1 playoff win in 7 years following whatever you would call this half-assed strategy they've been using.

 

[Balta1701]

I could not give one damn about the Houston Astros. The Chicago White Sox have 1 playoff win in 7 years following whatever you would call this half-assed strategy they've been using.

And the team you are trying to pattern off of has 0 playoff wins in 7 years and in exchange for that is borderline top 10 in their minor league system. It's an awesome plan!

[Jake]

FWIW, if I was doing an Astros-style teardown, I would be playing Jordan Danks every day in CF.

 

I would never ever do an Astros-style rebuild though. That's stupid.

[Marty34]

And the team you are trying to pattern off of has 0 playoff wins in 7 years and in exchange for that is borderline top 10 in their minor league system. It's an awesome plan!

 

Like I said, I do not give one damn about the Houston Astros. Odd that you keep bring them up though.

[southsider2k5]

Like I said, I do not give one damn about the Houston Astros. Odd that you keep bring them up though.

 

Odd in the sense that you are using their franchise model, sure.

[Marty34]

FWIW, if I was doing an Astros-style teardown, I would be playing Jordan Danks every day in CF.

 

I would never ever do an Astros-style rebuild though. That's stupid.

 

I'm not familiar with what the Houston Astros are doing. What is the reason for the Sox to keep the few players of value they have. Specifically the older players, Rios, Peavy, and Ramirez?

[Balta1701]

Like I said, I do not give one damn about the Houston Astros. Odd that you keep bring them up though.

Yes, it is definitely odd that I'd bring up the Astros after other people already had made several posts about them. Definitely weird and confusing of me.

[Balta1701]

I'm not familiar with what the Houston Astros are doing. What is the reason for the Sox to keep the few players of value they have. Specifically the older players, Rios, Peavy, and Ramirez?

They're selling off every piece with any trade value, removing all of their big contracts, saving as much money as possible by moving bad deals like Carlos Lee for scraps, losing every single year, winning 55 games a year, cutting their attendance to 1.6 million last year, cutting their payroll to $20 million this year, and winding up with a borderline top 10 system after more than half a decade of losing.

 

You know, exactly what your post wants the White Sox to do.