What I Would Do

[flavum]

That's like saying, I'm only going to agree to produce a movie script if it's profitable.

 

C'mon. Adam Dunn made a lot of sense. Josh Hamilton or Zach Greinke might have improved the team...and you would have been in favor of the Sox making a splash and signing either of those two players.

 

 

How do you feel Keppinger at SS or Danks in CF would possibly be an improvement? Peavy traded and replaced by Axelrod/John Danks? You've just added another 8-10 losses to this year's total record.

 

Do you actually care if the Sox win 71 games instead of 81?

 

The goal should be 90 wins every year. The average 2nd wild card in the AL the last 12 years (if there were two wildcards) is 90 wins. The average AL Central winner the last 12 years is 92 wins. If you take the lower of the two the last 12 years, the average is 89 wins. I'll take that in the AL Central. 89-73 or better, or there's no point in fielding a veteran team.

[Jake]

I'd love to see Ventura shake things up a bit. I understand not making moves in order to show poise and not trying to panic, but with the collapse last year continuing into this season, why not have fun and try something like this lineup:

 

Gillaspie

Rios

De Aza

Konerko

Viciedo

Dunn

Ramirez

Keppinger

Flowers

 

If De Aza is going to act like a power hitter at the plate, why not try to get him up to bat with people on base? Who knows, maybe he'll turn into a 25 home run a year player.

 

Just for the fun of it, if we were trying to tweak I'd take your lineup and make it more like this:

 

Gillaspie

Ramirez

De Aza

Rios

Konerko

Viciedo

Dunn

Flowers

Keppinger

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I could not give one damn about the Houston Astros. The Chicago White Sox have 1 playoff win in 7 years following whatever you would call this half-assed strategy they've been using.

And you want to make it 1 in 20 years.

[caulfield12]

This thread is ridiculous. Just gazing through it and I see all of this.

 

1.) Release Alexei Ramirez, our best defender and one of the more productive SS's in baseball.

2.) Replace him with the least productive offensive player in baseball who has not played SS since '08.

3.) Replace him with Beckham.

4.) Bat Gillaspie 1st.

5.) Bat De Aza 3rd.

 

Ban OP and throw out the key.

 

It's May 11th. Wait two months and let the bats warm up and see where the team is.

 

If by the middle of July we still suck, trade Thornton, Crain, Lindstrom, De Aza, Konerko (if we can) and Rios/Alexei/Peavy if we get good offers. Use the rest of the season as a tryout for Flowers, Phegley, Beckham, Gillaspie, Viciedo and maybe even Jordan Danks. Also see the real potential of Axelrod, Quintana and Santiago.

 

Make a couple targeted moves and spend a little new money and out pitching should keep us at least competitive for the immediate future.

 

 

 

The problem is getting major league ready talent to restore our starting line-up to at least average.

 

We don't need a great offense to win, but we need a decent one.

 

Other than DeAza (probably prospects a year or two away), dealing from the remaining veteran core of Peavy/Ramirez/Rios is the only way to get a decent return back, Peavy in particular. Everything else is just dumping salary and opening up playing time for youngsters.

 

And that still leaves the Dunn and Danks issues, although at least Dunn will be "done" one way or the other at the end of 2014, if not sooner.

[caulfield12]

And you want to make it 1 in 20 years.

 

 

 

I think the "end game" is to have the team lose 90-110 games for 5 years, then JR will be "forced" to sell the team.

 

Since KW can't be fired anymore, essentially....and picking on Ventura is like blaming the captain of the Titanic for the ship foundering and sinking, better to blame the owner of the entire enterprise.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I think the "end game" is to have the team lose 90-110 games for 5 years, then JR will be "forced" to sell the team.

 

Since KW can't be fired anymore, essentially....and picking on Ventura is like blaming the captain of the Titanic for the ship foundering and sinking, better to blame the owner of the entire enterprise.

There in fact does exist an alternate universe in which Ozzie Guillen owns the Sox and for the life of him Marty34 can't make up his mind whether he wants the organization sold or not.

[caulfield12]

There in fact does exist an alternate universe in which Ozzie Guillen owns the Sox and for the life of him Marty34 can't make up his mind whether he wants the organization sold or not.

 

 

Greg775 would enjoy this universe as well.

 

 

I think they need to add this planet to "Ready Player One." Or write a new book based on that premise.

 

How long before the historic White Sox were kicked out of MLB? JR would be turning over in his grave.

[coco1997]

Realistically, how much would it take to get Matt Adams from St. Louis?

[Marty34]

This thread is ridiculous. Just gazing through it and I see all of this.

 

1.) Release Alexei Ramirez, our best defender and one of the more productive SS's in baseball.

2.) Replace him with the least productive offensive player in baseball who has not played SS since '08.

3.) Replace him with Beckham.

4.) Bat Gillaspie 1st.

5.) Bat De Aza 3rd.

 

Ban OP and throw out the key.

 

It's May 11th. Wait two months and let the bats warm up and see where the team is.

 

If by the middle of July we still suck, trade Thornton, Crain, Lindstrom, De Aza, Konerko (if we can) and Rios/Alexei/Peavy if we get good offers. Use the rest of the season as a tryout for Flowers, Phegley, Beckham, Gillaspie, Viciedo and maybe even Jordan Danks. Also see the real potential of Axelrod, Quintana and Santiago.

 

Make a couple targeted moves and spend a little new money and out pitching should keep us at least competitive for the immediate future.

 

People throw around the word "competitive" as if that's the goal. Minnimum goal should be what Flavum mentioned 90 wins.

 

[Marty34]

And you want to make it 1 (playoff appearance) in 20 years.

 

It's on that course as is. Outside of maybe Viciedo and perhaps Beckham there isn't a position player currently on this team who will be on it the next time they make the postseason.

[fathom]

Realistically, how much would it take to get Matt Adams from St. Louis?

 

I'd be offering them Alexei, as they have a weakness at SS on that loaded roster.

[coco1997]

I'd be offering them Alexei, as they have a weakness at SS on that loaded roster.

 

Isn't their bullpen pretty weak, too? Crain, Thornton and Lindstrom would probably look pretty attractive to them.

[caulfield12]

It's on that course as is. Outside of maybe Viciedo and perhaps Beckham there isn't a position player currently on this team who will be on it the next time they make the postseason.

 

 

Jury's still out on Gillaspie.

 

Probably more of a platoon player or PH-type, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens when Beckham comes back...how Ventura will utilize him and Keppinger.

 

I'm actually getting behind the idea of Beckham at SS because I strongly believe it would make him more confident from an "overall" perspective, sort of like the "captain" on the team with Konerko gone...and, as one of the few remaining younger guys on the team still "youngish" but with a long history/identity with the Sox.

 

I remember all the comparisons to Jeter when he first was drafted and came up...that cockiness and borderline arrogance. Maybe being at SS will help him. It can't get any worse for him offensively, and Ramirez is nearing his sell-by date.

 

If we're not planning to compete for the rest of 2013 (and there's also MINN, CLE and KC between us and the Tigers), it couldn't hurt.

 

At least it would be more interesting. And you simply can't afford to play Keppinger at SS. No way.

 

An infield of Beckham at SS, Sanchez at 2B and Gillaspie/Keppinger 3B/util isn't going to be much worse than what we're currently going with anyway...and all those players are young enough to be a part of the future, if they can hold their own (over 625 OPS and solid defense).

Edited May 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[TaylorStSox]

People throw around the word "competitive" as if that's the goal. Minnimum goal should be what Flavum mentioned 90 wins.

I don't think many people are against tearing it all down. The problem is that your ideas are awful.

[Lillian]

Is there anyone here who questions whether Dunn is the biggest reason this team is faltering so badly?

It's not just how terrible he is, but it's the lack of protection that he is providing for other hitters in the middle of the order, especially since he's the only

serious left handed hitter on the roster.

Last night, vs. RHP, he had the hat trick, and there were only 2 other strike outs registered by the Angels' staff, all night.

 

Is there any possible solution to this much discussed problem?

Might he realistically just hang up his spikes? He must feel just awful.

I honestly can't remember another more disappointing player in Sox history. At least most of the old veterans that have been brought in, over the years, produced league average performance levels, or were old enough, or cheap enough to be forgiven.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Lillian

[Marty34]

I don't think many people are against tearing it all down. The problem is that your ideas are awful.

 

The roster has very little upside/value. There are no ideas that aren't awful. Maybe though you have a few to share.

[Lillian]

The question I have been asking here for the last couple of years is; Who in the organization, or available from another team, could take Dunn's place as a left handed, middle of the order hitter?

I suspect the answer is; "no one". If that is the case, this team might as well be dismantled at the nearest propitious time, because it isn't going anywhere

with Adam Dunn hitting in the heart of the order. Unless, someone really believes that he could suddenly return to being the player he was in the NL.

They might as well start rebuilding the team with 2015 or 2016 in mind.

 

In the meantime, who are the potential candidates within the organization?

Dan Black might have the best shot. He is a big guy, who draws walks, and hits for average. Why isn't he ranked in the top 20 prospects?

I assume that it's his age.

He has always been considered a good hitter, and seems to be getting better. My question is why not?

Who cares how much the team has tied up in Dunn? The Sox might as well get a good look at someone who could be part of the future, which Dunn clearly is not.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Lillian

[coco1997]

Someone at MLBTR suggested this trade:

 

Peavy, Rios + cash to NYM for SS Wilmer Flores, RHP Jeurys Familia and LHP Darin Gorski.

 

Would you do that trade?

[caulfield12]

Depends on how much cash is involved.

 

The most money we've ever eaten at one time is Linebrink's, and that was less than $5 million.

 

Like it or not, Rios is our best player.

 

If we're going to sacrifice Dunn, so to speak, it's better to get talent back for Rios and keep the Dunn situation separate.

[Disco72]

The roster has very little upside/value. There are no ideas that aren't awful. Maybe though you have a few to share.

 

This just is not true. The offense and defense are underperforming, but the Sox have both affordable and young pitching in the rotation and the pen.

[Marty34]

This just is not true. The offense and defense are underperforming, but the Sox have both affordable and young pitching in the rotation and the pen.

 

I'd say at least 20 of the 30 teams in MLB have more upside than the Sox. Particularly if you count the minor league systems.

[Disco72]

I'd say at least 20 of the 30 teams in MLB have more upside than the Sox. Particularly if you count the minor league systems.

 

You bolded the pitching part. Please list the 20 teams with more upside.

 

Look at how many "good" teams have weak pitching. The Angels are tossing Jerome Williams out there (granted, anyone is effective these days vs the Sox offense), and look at how mediocre the Yankee pitching staffs have been lately. The hardest thing to get in MLB is young, effective, affordable pitching. The Sox have that. The one thing you can build around is young pitching. This year is awful so far, but at least they have the one thing that is both the hardest and most expensive to acquire.

[TaylorStSox]

The roster has very little upside/value. There are no ideas that aren't awful. Maybe though you have a few to share.

Armchair GM was never a game that appealed to me.

Edited May 12, 2013 by TaylorStSox

[Marty34]

Armchair GM was never a game that appealed to me.

 

Something about this statement just doesn't ring true.

 

[TaylorStSox]

Something about this statement just doesn't ring true.

Yea, my posting history is filled with threads where I think up a bunch of hypothetical trades and signings.