Disney sexies up Merida from Brave, parents upset about body image iss

[illinilaw08]

Let's be fair though - the woman of Hollywood aren't anorexic. They're healthy women who are probably skinnier than their average counterpart, but not unhealthy looking.

 

But they don't show a wide array of healthy body types. It's very possible for a woman to be healthy without being a twig. And that body type is very, very rarely depicted in Hollywood.

[iamshack]

Depends on the person. I could stay size-0 thin by sitting on my ass all day. If I wanted to weigh 200 lbs, I'd need to eat a ridiculous amount of calories and work out several hours a day. Pretty much picture Brandon McCarthy but a little bit lighter because I'm not a pro-athlete. On the other hand, Adam Dunn could never look like me without developing a series eating disorder. Bo Jackson was pretty much naturally a freak of nature and not a gym rat.

That applies to women too, you know.

[caulfield12]

Let's be fair though - the woman of Hollywood aren't anorexic. They're healthy women who are probably skinnier than their average counterpart, but not unhealthy looking.

 

 

 

 

Every week, there's an allegation about this.

 

One week, it's Katie Holmes. The next week, it's Denise Richards or Kate Beckinsale.

[Iwritecode]

 

Is the size of the character really the problem here? She doesn't look any thinner to me.

 

Her face and hair are different but that could be done to any actress by showing a before/after with her hair and makeup done.

 

[iamshack]

IT'S MORE HEALTHY THAN STAYING THIN.

 

And it isn't just thin vs. not thin. It's unhealthy thin. Going back to the Wikipedia entry on bulimia, the majority of women with bulimia are a HEALTHY WEIGHT TO BEGIN WITH.

 

More from Jessica Clark from True Blood in Runner's World, http://www.runnersworld.com/celebrity-runn...ark?page=single

 

"The fashion model aesthetic is evolving a little bit, but they still, overall, don't want you to be too defined. I always thought they wanted me to be "skinny fat" and not necessarily have a lot of lean muscle. I don't have the type of physique where I bulk up at all, but I do get extremely lean and you can definitely see the definition of my muscles, which I like and a lot of people like, and I think that's beautiful and powerful and sexy. But I did feel a sort of pressure to stay away from that. For example, generally speaking, they don't want you to have a six-pack; they don't want to see any lower-ab definition."

 

Working out 2-3 hours per day to attain a certain body is very different from a look that is literally unattainable with exercise because exercise yields too much definition.

 

You're talking about waifish fashion models now though...that is not the only media ideal...there are all kinds of women on tv now that are healthy but thin looking...

[caulfield12]

Let's be clear about something else.

 

The camera (or webcam) adds about 4-5-6-7 kg (8-15 pounds).

 

What looks healthy or thin on tv on in a movie isn't 100% accurate, in reality.

[Jenksismyhero]

But they don't show a wide array of healthy body types. It's very possible for a woman to be healthy without being a twig. And that body type is very, very rarely depicted in Hollywood.

 

I think you get a mixed bag and you just don't realize it. Melissa McCarthy isn't exactly a size 0. Jennifer Lawrence isn't a twig. I'm blanking right now but there are many more.

 

Unless you're playing the part of the funny fat guy, what male leads are really unattractive/fat? All of your action stars/James Bond characters are super fit, clean face, good teeth, etc.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[Jenksismyhero]

Every week, there's an allegation about this.

 

One week, it's Katie Holmes. The next week, it's Denise Richards or Kate Beckinsale.

 

Ok? And did Mark Wahlberg or Dwayne Johnson or Gerard Butler take roids to get ripped?

[Soxbadger]

You're talking about waifish fashion models now though...that is not the only media ideal...there are all kinds of women on tv now that are healthy but thin looking...

 

You are trying to hit a moving target it wont happen.

 

There are tons of plausible explanations for why anorexia/bulimia exist entirely independent of media culture.

 

If we actually look at what people who treat the disorder say:

 

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/famil...ds-keeps-rising

 

Rosen and his colleagues pored over more than 200 recent studies on eating disorders. While much is unknown about what triggers these conditions, experts now understand it takes more than media images of very thin women, although that's not to say those don't play a role, Rosen said.

 

Its pretty much like drugs, blame the media. If only the media didnt glorify drug use, no one would use drugs.

 

 

[illinilaw08]

Illini,

 

First we need to separate the modeling. Models are abnormal. Most actresses are not model thin. Many people dont even find that thin attractive. It just happens that clothing designers (who strangely arent the macho men that seem to scare people at night) are fascinated with thin girls that look like young boys... Im not sure I need to explain that one further.

 

Part of the problem with self image issues is that they are created by an individual. It doesnt matter if Im in fact thin, it matters what I think. There is just simply no evidence to suggest that what Disney or any media company is doing, is having a dramatic impact on eating disorder rates.

 

here is an old British study:

 

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/186/2/132.full.pdf

 

Youll notice Anorexia stays constant, while bulimia peaks and then falls.

 

I guess my biggest issue is that there really is very little evidence that the media has any actual influence on the rate of these disorders.

 

Mental disorders are about an individual. The most beautiful girl in the world can have an eating disorder. It doesnt matter what the tv tells her, it doesnt matter what people tell her, it matters what she thinks.

 

That is why many very thin girls have anorexia and bulimia, because its not based on reason, its based on a warped mental image.

 

If you want to stop bulimia and anorexia, you are likely to have more success by targeting bullies, etc and trying to prevent children from getting a mental scar early, than you would by yelling about the image Disney portrays.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/anorexia/...DSECTION=causes

 

Per the Mayo Clinic, among other things, "Modern Western culture emphasizes thinness. The media are splashed with images of thin models and actors. Success and worth are often equated with being thin. Peer pressure may help fuel the desire to be thin, particularly among young girls."

[Iwritecode]

Illini,

 

First we need to separate the modeling. Models are abnormal. Most actresses are not model thin. Many people dont even find that thin attractive. It just happens that clothing designers (who strangely arent the macho men that seem to scare people at night) are fascinated with thin girls that look like young boys... Im not sure I need to explain that one further.

 

I've heard it's because the designers literally want the clothes to "hang" on them. So they want them as thin as a coat hanger.

[NorthSideSox72]

As the father of two young daughters, I just want to say this bothers me a lot. The thinness is part of it, but so is the effort to make her more adult and attractive. This was supposed to be a teenage girl, chubby cheeks and all. Changing this is just... not right, to me. Bothers me.

 

[illinilaw08]

You are trying to hit a moving target it wont happen.

 

There are tons of plausible explanations for why anorexia/bulimia exist entirely independent of media culture.

 

If we actually look at what people who treat the disorder say:

 

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/famil...ds-keeps-rising

 

Rosen and his colleagues pored over more than 200 recent studies on eating disorders. While much is unknown about what triggers these conditions, experts now understand it takes more than media images of very thin women, although that's not to say those don't play a role, Rosen said.

 

Its pretty much like drugs, blame the media. If only the media didnt glorify drug use, no one would use drugs.

 

Yeah, it's not just the "ideal" female form that causes healthy girls to have bulimia and anorexia, but they certainly play a role. Why does it happen to women at a rate 9x that of men?

 

 

[Soxbadger]

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/anorexia/...DSECTION=causes

 

Per the Mayo Clinic, among other things, "Modern Western culture emphasizes thinness. The media are splashed with images of thin models and actors. Success and worth are often equated with being thin. Peer pressure may help fuel the desire to be thin, particularly among young girls."

 

It MAY.

 

There is no substantial evidence to prove that it does.

 

The reality is that a parents role/influence is magnitudes more important than what a child sees on tv. And that mother would be better suited speaking to her child and explaining why that child is special for who they are, as opposed to trying to argue that somehow the tv needs to be changed.

 

I guess I just dont start burning effigies unless Im given real evidence of a crime.

 

[Soxbadger]

Yeah, it's not just the "ideal" female form that causes healthy girls to have bulimia and anorexia, but they certainly play a role. Why does it happen to women at a rate 9x that of men?

 

I dont know, but sometimes genetically women and men are different, and for all I know women are predisposed to that mental condition.

 

Depression is 2x as common in women.

 

Men are 3x as likely to have an antisocial personality disorder.

 

Is that the media, is it biology, is it 20,000 of human evolution, is it cultural?

 

I have no clue.

 

(saw a typo, made the correction before the spelling police return)

Edited May 14, 2013 by Soxbadger

[caulfield12]

http://fmnnow.com/2012/11/wuhan-auto-show-...ren-in-bikinis/

 

Do they do this with young boys? I don't think so.

 

This is from the Wuhan Auto show....Wuhan is a city of about 10+ million that I'm sure nobody here has even heard of...the Chicago of China, it's described as. I used to live there in 2007-08.

 

 

By the way, yet ANOTHER example. Almost all of the flight attendants for Asian airlines are picked out of beauty contests and local pageants....the only requirement is being tall, thin (I would swear, Korean Airlines, the girls are all like cookie-cutter models of each other, you can't even tell them apart), with white skin and "good communications skills." Whereas numerous surveys say consistently about 30-50% of the male flight attendants in Asia are gay males.

 

 

There are even two Asian airlines that brought bikini-clad girls on board to create a sensation on the internet...free publicity, lots of men getting smacked by their wives or g/f's for recording with their cell phones, etc.

 

Then there's Hooters.

 

 

For every male example, there are 100 female counterexamples of the beauty image being reinforced.

 

 

[illinilaw08]

It MAY.

 

There is no substantial evidence to prove that it does.

 

The reality is that a parents role/influence is magnitudes more important than what a child sees on tv. And that mother would be better suited speaking to her child and explaining why that child is special for who they are, as opposed to trying to argue that somehow the tv needs to be changed.

 

I guess I just dont start burning effigies unless Im given real evidence of a crime.

 

Right. It may. Pages ago, you were arguing that if it impacts girls, it must impact boys in the same way. And that argument said that media portrayal would drive little boys to become steroid users. My argument throughout has been that the depiction of male leads is very, very different than female leads. That bulimia and anorexia hit young women at a rate 9x that of males. And that the evidence on the steroid usage was not broken down by gender other than to say that 1 in 3 high school boys admitted using protein shakes to 1 in 5 females.

 

Parents have a huge role. But so do the people your kids see on tv. That's why, coaching and parenting be damned, I thought I should hit a baseball out on my front foot, because that's what Frank Thomas did. Environment plays a huge role. Bullying plays a huge role.

 

But if you can't see that there is a difference in the way that women and men are portrayed in the media, you are being willfully blind. And if you can't see that a correlation may exist between that portrayal and higher incidences of bulimia and anorexia, I don't know what to say.

[caulfield12]

 

Is the size of the character really the problem here? She doesn't look any thinner to me.

 

Her face and hair are different but that could be done to any actress by showing a before/after with her hair and makeup done.

 

1) More make-up, much "prettier" face or appearance

 

2) Tighter outfit, noticeably smaller/tinier waistline

 

3) The "wholesome" Disney-esque hint of cleavage in the new version

 

4) Clothes are less frumpy and more fashionable....also reinforcing idea girls need to dress "sexy" instead of being judged by their brains/merit

 

 

 

 

 

Let's put it this way.

 

I want to see a Disney cartoon where the girl is 100% covered by a hijab or burkha, with the story taking place in a Muslim/Middle Eastern country (no, Alladin didn't reflect any of this culture, if you can remember back that far).

 

Where all you can see are the eyes, hands and maybe the feet (if in sandals).

 

When that actually happens, I'll believe there's a new level of progress in the world (and media)

Edited May 14, 2013 by caulfield12

[CrimsonWeltall]

And that the evidence on the steroid usage was not broken down by gender other than to say that 1 in 3 high school boys admitted using protein shakes to 1 in 5 females

 

4.5% of the girls had tried steroids.

5.9% of the boys had tried steroids.

 

Both were highly correlated with being athletes.

[Steve9347]

1) More make-up, much "prettier" face or appearance

 

2) Tighter outfit, noticeably smaller/tinier waistline

 

3) The "wholesome" Disney-esque hint of cleavage in the new version

 

4) Clothes are less frumpy and more fashionable....also reinforcing idea girls need to dress "sexy" instead of being judged by their brains/merit

She was very young in the first one. I'd assume the new one happens in the future. Women tend to start to show cleavage as they get cleavage.

[Soxbadger]

Right. It may. Pages ago, you were arguing that if it impacts girls, it must impact boys in the same way. And that argument said that media portrayal would drive little boys to become steroid users. My argument throughout has been that the depiction of male leads is very, very different than female leads. That bulimia and anorexia hit young women at a rate 9x that of males. And that the evidence on the steroid usage was not broken down by gender other than to say that 1 in 3 high school boys admitted using protein shakes to 1 in 5 females.

 

Parents have a huge role. But so do the people your kids see on tv. That's why, coaching and parenting be damned, I thought I should hit a baseball out on my front foot, because that's what Frank Thomas did. Environment plays a huge role. Bullying plays a huge role.

 

But if you can't see that there is a difference in the way that women and men are portrayed in the media, you are being willfully blind. And if you can't see that a correlation may exist between that portrayal and higher incidences of bulimia and anorexia, I don't know what to say.

 

I never argued that it has to impact them the same way. I argued if you are upset about how girls are being portrayed because it may have a negative impact on them, you should be upset at how boys are being portrayed.

 

I dont believe I ever once indicated that it was on the same magnitude. I used steroids as an example because someone implied that image issues were female only, I wanted to provide evidence that it happens to boys as well.

 

I never said there wasnt a difference. I simply have said that if you are upset about how a company is potentially negatively impacting children, you (imo) should care about both boys and girls, not just girls. Because if you only complain about the girls, its (imo) hypocritical.

 

Here is my first comment:

 

So maybe to some people they made her more ugly?

 

Im sure some guy out there is saying she doesnt have enough junk in her trunk.

 

(edit)

 

And why isnt this mother complaining that most of Disney's male leads are good looking.

 

You know Prince Charming, he doesnt create an unreachable stereotype for boys.

 

My second:

 

Men are judged by their looks as well. To say otherwise is a complete fallacy.

 

I never was discussing whether it happens more/less in women, just that its pretty hilarious that no one ever brings it up about men.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Soxbadger

[Iwritecode]

1) More make-up, much "prettier" face or appearance

 

2) Tighter outfit, noticeably smaller/tinier waistline

 

3) The "wholesome" Disney-esque hint of cleavage in the new version

 

4) Clothes are less frumpy and more fashionable....also reinforcing idea girls need to dress "sexy" instead of being judged by their brains/merit

 

I just think there's a difference between a little girl wanting to dress up like the character from the movie and go out and shoot a bow and arrow and wanting to dress up like a princess and put on a bunch of makeup and a fancy dress. It's possible to do both.

 

The character was becoming an official Disney princess so they dressed her up a little bit. I still don't see the size difference in the pictures.

[CrimsonWeltall]

She was very young in the first one. I'd assume the new one happens in the future. Women tend to start to show cleavage as they get cleavage.

 

This isn't for a new movie since there is no sequel planned. They revamped her image for their website and other promotional materials.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I just think there's a difference between a little girl wanting to dress up like the character from the movie and go out and shoot a bow and arrow and wanting to dress up like a princess and put on a bunch of makeup and a fancy dress. It's possible to do both.

 

One of Merida's primary character traits was that she hates dressing up and other girly-girl activities. She's a tomboy. The change doesn't make any sense.

[Steve9347]

This isn't for a new movie since there is no sequel planned. They revamped her image for their website and other promotional materials.

Then wtf.