Disney sexies up Merida from Brave, parents upset about body image iss

[Soxbadger]

Men aren't frequently judged primarily on their physical attractiveness.

 

According to you.

 

But you are putting in a ton of qualifiers and opinion.

 

First of all "primarily" and "frequently".

 

What does it matter. If men are being judged by looks, they are being judged. 1 person being judged 1 time could be enough to push them over the edge.

 

Its extreme hypocrisy.

[StrangeSox]

Lol, ditto your assholery.

 

There's a difference between "getting it" and not giving two s***s about it. I clearly don't give two s***s about it on top of finding the entire notion utterly ridiculous. ZOMG THEY CHANGED A CARTOON CHARACTER. LITTLE GIRLS ARE KILLING THEMSELVES IN THE STREET. LET'S START A REVOLUTION.

 

No, you display over and over and over again with your responses that you don't even get what the thing you're rejecting out of hand even is, that you don't understand it on a basic conceptual level. You can only ever respond with these really, really dumb straw men.

 

But as I always say, keep fighting the fight. One day you'll have your perfect dream world where everyone is the exact same because then that .00001% you're so worried about won't be offended! Oh what a glorious thought!

Wait, I thought all us lefty libs were multicultural, anti-assimilation bastards set on destroying Traditional American culture?!!

 

But that's a pretty good example of you really just not getting it. At all. It'd be one thing if you did and still disagreed, but you don't. The entire concept is to reject a single, perfect standard in favor of acceptance of people with differences. That we don't judge and shame and demean people for not adhering to some standard of beauty or weight or gender norms or whatever. That you keep saying "everyone will be exactly the same!" as a sarcastic dismissal really does tell everyone that you don't understand and that you're proud of the ignorance.

[Soxbadger]

Not nearly to the same extent women are. Damn near every woman in the public sphere has her looks commented on and brought up as a legitimate topic of discussion and that simply doesn't hold true for men.

 

Not really. I judge men and women equally by their looks.

 

Just because you may judge women exclusively by their looks, doesnt mean everyone in society does.

[StrangeSox]

According to you.

 

But you are putting in a ton of qualifiers and opinion.

 

First of all "primarily" and "frequently".

 

Some men are judged sometimes by society on their looks. Obviously, everyone is judged individually by others at some point, but women are judged on their attractiveness constantly and outside of the realm of dating/personal interactions. When was the last time a plain-looking or heavy-set woman was a sideline reporter? Or a news anchor? Or a media darling?

 

What does it matter. If men are being judged by looks, they are being judged. 1 person being judged 1 time could be enough to push them over the edge.

 

Its extreme hypocrisy.

 

Push who over what edge? What hypocrisy?

 

To the extent that men are held by society at large to some unrealistic standard of beauty, it's bad. But that extent is much, much less than what women face.

[StrangeSox]

Not really. I judge men and women equally by their looks.

 

Just because you may judge women exclusively by their looks, doesnt mean everyone in society does.

lol, okay buddy.

 

you realize that it's an issue of society and not you, individually, right?

Edited May 14, 2013 by StrangeSox

[iamshack]

Sure, to some individuals maybe, but for our culture as a whole, no. And those standards within that culture may change over time. Compare today's (airbrushed) models to some Renaissance-era paintings of idealistic beauty.

 

 

Men aren't frequently judged primarily on their physical attractiveness.

So what should we do to all the renaissance paintings and scupltures? Should we ruin David because he is too damned ripped for me to have any self-esteem? Should we burn all those paintings of buxom women because everyone is going to get implants now?

 

What is your solution to this?

[iamshack]

Some men are judged sometimes by society on their looks. Obviously, everyone is judged individually by others at some point, but women are judged on their attractiveness constantly and outside of the realm of dating/personal interactions. When was the last time a plain-looking or heavy-set woman was a sideline reporter? Or a news anchor? Or a media darling?

 

 

 

Push who over what edge? What hypocrisy?

 

To the extent that men are held by society at large to some unrealistic standard of beauty, it's bad. But that extent is much, much less than what women face.

Michelle Tafoya maybe?

[Jenksismyhero]

Regardless of what type of parents you are, kids are going to look up to their favorite fictional characters and their favorite athletes. I have great parents, but try as my dad and baseball coaches might, I still thought I should be out on my front foot with my back foot off the ground to drive the ball because that's what Frank Thomas did.

 

Plenty of young girls have issues with bulemia (sp) and anorexia. They can't possibly all have bad parents.

 

I find it hard to believe that we have an epidemic of 5-10 year old girls suffering from bulemia and anorexia.

[StrangeSox]

So what should we do to all the renaissance paintings and scupltures? Should we ruin David because he is too damned ripped for me to have any self-esteem? Should we burn all those paintings of buxom women because everyone is going to get implants now?

 

No. That would be pretty absurd.

 

What is your solution to this?

 

Stop objectifying women and judging them based on their looks in virtually every context. Don't sexualize everything feminine or female.

[Soxbadger]

Strangesox,

 

I have no clue why you are getting all bent out of shape on this issue. Its scientific fact that humans prefer good looking people. We are hard wired to prefer symmetry.

 

So arguing about why Disney is making a character more aesthetically pleasing, is like arguing why McDonalds is trying to make a cheeseburger taste better.

 

Because they want to make money. These are corporations, to suggest that they should lose money or take actions that are contrary to business principals for "good of society" is nonsense.

 

Its hypocrisy because as I said, the mother is complaining exclusively about little girls. She doesnt mention that Disney creates perfect male characters that boys cant compare to. If she did, maybe she would have a legitimate argument.

 

But instead its merely a nonsensical argument to try and push her own agenda. I dont buy that type of garbage.

 

As for push who over the edge?

 

You dont think that there are boys in HS who take steroids because they feel they dont compare to people on tv? You dont think there are boys who develop drug habits, commit suicide due to image issues?

 

Its a joke. Just a flat out joke. This isnt about women, its about society. You cant change human biology.

 

But I guess if Disney has an ugly princess, that will change the world. All of a sudden everyone will think ugly people are more valuable than pretty people.

 

So silly.

[iamshack]

I find it hard to believe that we have an epidemic of 5-10 year old girls suffering from bulemia and anorexia.

To Badger's point, I believe eating disorders for men have been on the rise, actually.

[StrangeSox]

Michelle Tafoya maybe?

This isn't exactly heavy-set

 

 

plus she's pretty stereotypically attractive

[Soxbadger]

Stop objectifying PEOPLE and judging them based on their looks in virtually every context. Don't sexualize everything.

 

Fixed. Maybe if that is the argument, people would agree. But when you suggest/imply that it isnt happening with male characters or to males in general, it completely destroys the argument.

 

To Badger's point, I believe eating disorders for men have been on the rise, actually.

 

No. No one ever judges men on their looks. No guy has ever been turned down for a job, by a girl, because of their looks. No man has ever been promoted or been given something free because he looked good.

 

No man has ever been hired because he was pretty. No man ever not hired because he wasnt.

 

All males are judged solely on merit.

 

lol

[Soxbadger]

omg people who are on tv are good looking.

 

Next up, people who are scientists are good at science.

 

Is this really how this argument is going?

[iamshack]

No. That would be pretty absurd.

 

 

 

Stop objectifying women and judging them based on their looks in virtually every context. Don't sexualize everything feminine or female.

Yeah, this will happen as soon as men stop breathing...

 

Meanwhile, all I hear on the radio and see on tv lately is commercials for low testosterone. I need to have more vitality, more endurance, and be more ripped...oh, those evil women are objectifying all of us!

 

I really sympathize with your point...but C'Mon, Man!

[iamshack]

This isn't exactly heavy-set

 

 

plus she's pretty stereotypically attractive

I was going more for "plain-looking."

[illinilaw08]

I find it hard to believe that we have an epidemic of 5-10 year old girls suffering from bulemia and anorexia.

 

From the Wikipedia article on Bulimia...

 

"Over the years the size and weight of the average woman has increased with improved nutrition. Over the years there has also been an increased message from the media to be thin. The media projects a thin-ideal rather than a healthy-ideal, and this causes women and young girls to work toward having a thin body even if it means purging.[13]"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulimia_nervosa

 

Maybe I should have phrased my early comment as "adolescents" or "young women," but the point stands that body image problems, whilecertainly prevalent in both sexes, lead to eating disorders far more frequently in teenage girls than in teenage boys. Changing a successful movie character's appearance to make her part of an exclusive Disney club doesn't help with that. Is it the worst thing that has happened this week? Obviously not. Is it an issue? Absolutely.

[StrangeSox]

Strangesox,

 

I have no clue why you are getting all bent out of shape on this issue. Its scientific fact that humans prefer good looking people. We are hard wired to prefer symmetry.

 

Partially, but what is "good looking" is, again, culturally dependent. We're not hard-wired to like Barbie-doll like figures.

 

So arguing about why Disney is making a character more aesthetically pleasing, is like arguing why McDonalds is trying to make a cheeseburger taste better.

 

Why does a Disney character in a children's movie need to be sexed-up at all? What was wrong with the character before? Should every single character in every story be made to look as sexually attractive as possible?

 

Because they want to make money. These are corporations, to suggest that they should lose money or take actions that are contrary to business principals for "good of society" is nonsense.

 

This sounds like a bunch of nonsense. What is the evidence that they lost money because Brave wasn't sexualized before?

 

Its hypocrisy because as I said, the mother is complaining exclusively about little girls. She doesnt mention that Disney creates perfect male characters that boys cant compare to. If she did, maybe she would have a legitimate argument.

 

Disney creates some characters like that, but they aren't universally so. They also haven't gone back and sexed-up characters in movies released just a couple of years ago, either. Did they make Brave's father more attractive and sexual?

 

But instead its merely a nonsensical argument to try and push her own agenda. I dont buy that type of garbage.

 

There's nothing "nonsense" about not wanting every female character increasingly sexualized. Her agenda appears to be to not have things for little girls sexualized, and of course it's trying to push her own agenda. That's the point of an argument.

 

As for push who over the edge?

 

You dont think that there are boys in HS who take steroids because they feel they dont compare to people on tv? You dont think there are boys who develop drug habits, commit suicide due to image issues?

 

Yes, there are. There's a much larger issue with body image and sexualization of women, and this story is very clearly about sexualizing a female. Not every argument and issue needs to address every possible related thing in the world.

 

Its a joke. Just a flat out joke. This isnt about women, its about society. You cant change human biology.

 

--noted biologist Soxbadger

 

There's nothing biologically deterministic that says we need to sexualize everything and everyone feminine, that we need to judge women primarily on their looks and certainly much more than we judge men.

 

But I guess if Disney has an ugly princess, that will change the world. All of a sudden everyone will think ugly people are more valuable than pretty people.

 

So silly.

 

You're approaching Jenks levels of not even bothering to try to understand the topic you insist is so obviously nonsense.

 

[Soxbadger]

It stands to reason that boys wouldnt suffer bulimia or anorexia, boy images are shown as big and tough. If I watch Disney movies, I want to be strong, like Prince Charming, Simba.

 

That makes me take steroids, testosterone, protein shakes, etc.

 

Nothing will change unless we are going to try and completely rewire human behavior.

[Jenksismyhero]

No, you display over and over and over again with your responses that you don't even get what the thing you're rejecting out of hand even is, that you don't understand it on a basic conceptual level. You can only ever respond with these really, really dumb straw men.

 

 

Wait, I thought all us lefty libs were multicultural, anti-assimilation bastards set on destroying Traditional American culture?!!

 

But that's a pretty good example of you really just not getting it. At all. It'd be one thing if you did and still disagreed, but you don't. The entire concept is to reject a single, perfect standard in favor of acceptance of people with differences. That we don't judge and shame and demean people for not adhering to some standard of beauty or weight or gender norms or whatever. That you keep saying "everyone will be exactly the same!" as a sarcastic dismissal really does tell everyone that you don't understand and that you're proud of the ignorance.

 

You're so afraid of offending anyone (that you like) that you want the entire world to change over it. I, on the other hand, could give two s***s if some morbidly obese kid of a morbidly obese mother has some self esteem issues because a non-morbidly obese cartoon character is projected in a movie. Maybe that'd be good for that morbidly obese family to see what is "attractive" and healthy and what is not. That's my point here.

 

I'm much more accepting of the idea that models that are airbrushed and put on covers of teen magazines is an actual issue worth discussing. Changing a cartoon character aimed at 5-10 year olds? GMAFB.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

I dunno why Disney decided to sex-up this character. Wasn't she supposed to be all woodsy and not super-feminine in that movie? Just seems like an odd move for the character more than anything.

I think that's kind of the point of the outrage. She was specifically made to NOT fit the typical "damsel in distress" model of past Disney princess that needs to be saved by the Prince. She has inner confidence. She was specifically made to be plain and awkward for a reason.

 

Disney decided to sex her up a bit and make her mode like a model.

[illinilaw08]

It stands to reason that boys wouldnt suffer bulimia or anorexia, boy images are shown as big and tough. If I watch Disney movies, I want to be strong, like Prince Charming, Simba.

 

That makes me take steroids, testosterone, protein shakes, etc.

 

Nothing will change unless we are going to try and completely rewire human behavior.

 

Are you seriously comparing protein shakes and working out to eating disorders?

[Jenksismyhero]

No. That would be pretty absurd.

 

 

 

Stop objectifying women and judging them based on their looks in virtually every context. Don't sexualize everything feminine or female.

 

i.e., let's all be goo backs.

[StrangeSox]

Fixed. Maybe if that is the argument, people would agree. But when you suggest/imply that it isnt happening with male characters or to males in general, it completely destroys the argument.

 

It isn't happening to men to anywhere near the level that it happens with women in virtually every aspect of our society. When a bunch of dudes respond to a feminist criticism of culture by saying "but some guys get a s***ty deal too!" it doesn't destroy anything but their own credibility.

 

 

No. No one ever judges men on their looks. No guy has ever been turned down for a job, by a girl, because of their looks. No man has ever been promoted or been given something free because he looked good.

 

No man has ever been hired because he was pretty. No man ever not hired because he wasnt.

 

All males are judged solely on merit.

 

lol

 

More jenks-like intentionally bad-faith comprehension.

 

Men are judged on their looks. Nobody has said otherwise.

 

Women are judged on their looks damn near constantly and in probably every aspect of their lives. Their looks are central to any story if they're getting press coverage. They're a legitimate topic of conversation. Whether or not they give the President a tingle in his dingle is a legitimate comment for him to make at a press conference. They're not going to be a media figure without being at least moderately attractive.

[iamshack]

Are you seriously comparing protein shakes and working out to eating disorders?

Why can't he?