Disney sexies up Merida from Brave, parents upset about body image iss

[StrangeSox]

And men are judged on their ability to provide constantly, which leads to self-esteem and body issues for men and also marginalization.

You put in a valiant effort for that silver medal, shack.

 

Men are not judged on their ability "to provide" constantly and in all contexts. They may be judged by (some) women in the context of a potential partner, but it won't be a frequent topic of discussion in articles or interviews about a male politician or CEO or sports star. They won't be ogled for their "ability to provide" everywhere they go, it won't be a factor in their professional success (because that's sort of circular there). And more and more, women are independent and working on their own and not judging men on their ability to earn money. Nor would that lead to any sort of body issue, that part doesn't even make sense.

[Soxbadger]

Will you, perhaps, concede that bulimia and anorexia are a major helath issue amongst high school girls and that it derives from a standard that makes healthy girls think they are unattractive if they aren't model thin? And that popular culture helps to push an unhelathy standard for women?

 

Absolutely. Ive never said anything contrary. Those are major issues.

 

I just think its hypocritical to scream about how girls are portrayed and not even mention how boys are portrayed.

 

That is my entire argument, that if you are going to b**** at Disney, b**** at them about ALL CHARACTERS, not just female.

 

That seems pretty reasonable to me.

[iamshack]

No one would deny that (1) men do it more often and (2) men are more upfront/open about it. But guys are judged all the time and to pretend otherwise is just stupid.

My stepdad always tells me that men are some evil sob's, but at least we are honest and upfront about it.

 

Women are far more devious because they hide that s***.

 

[StrangeSox]

Nice backtrack.

Still waiting for a quote there, buddy.

[caulfield12]

Shack and Jenks,

 

I wouldnt bother. Weve now just gone into "personal opinion".

 

While some of us can be rationale and admit that EVERYONE is being constantly judged by attractiveness, other people have to make up some argument that "it happens more to women".

 

I just posted evidence about how many boys take steroids due to image issues, but no one cares. Its just simply "PROTECT OUR INNOCENT DAUGHTERS".

 

Screw that noise. Either we protect everyone (and contrary to certain people that includes boys), or we protect no one.

 

 

 

You're assuming EVERY boy is taking steroids to look more attractive or be more confident....or to pick up girls.

 

What about all those kids who want to bulk up for weightlifting, for playing football or a specific sport?

 

You can spin it as much as you like that the goal of every boy who is taking steroid is sexually-related, but if you're familiar with them, you also know they will destroy your ability to get an erection (see Anthony Mackie's character in PAIN & GAIN)...the irony of them making you more physically potent looking but sexually impotent.

[StrangeSox]

Shack and Jenks,

 

I wouldnt bother. Weve now just gone into "personal opinion".

 

While some of us can be rationale and admit that EVERYONE is being constantly judged by attractiveness, other people have to make up some argument that "it happens more to women".

 

Everyone is judged by attractiveness. It's not very "rationale" (sic) to make up some arguments nobody is actually making in order to knock them down. Women are, without a question, sexualized in our society more than men.

 

I just posted evidence about how many boys take steroids due to image issues, but no one cares. Its just simply "PROTECT OUR INNOCENT DAUGHTERS".

 

Nope! It's almost as if there was a very specific context for this story and thread, and it wasn't "boys taking steroids" and so it might not have included that!

 

Screw that noise. Either we protect everyone (and contrary to certain people that includes boys), or we protect no one.

Who are these certain people? Are they the straw men you've beaten up?

[Soxbadger]

No one would deny that (1) men do it more often and (2) men are more upfront/open about it. But guys are judged all the time and to pretend otherwise is just stupid.

 

Women do it all the time, they just dont do it as overtly.

 

Its a pretty big assumption that its male driven, it actually may be more female driven. I think there are some studies that suggest females are harder on other females about looks than men are about other men.

 

That would mean you need to make women more appealing because both sides judge.

 

Now i cant find the evidence that quick, but it is something I do recall.

[iamshack]

You put in a valiant effort for that silver medal, shack.

 

Men are not judged on their ability "to provide" constantly and in all contexts. They may be judged by (some) women in the context of a potential partner, but it won't be a frequent topic of discussion in articles or interviews about a male politician or CEO or sports star. They won't be ogled for their "ability to provide" everywhere they go, it won't be a factor in their professional success (because that's sort of circular there). And more and more, women are independent and working on their own and not judging men on their ability to earn money. Nor would that lead to any sort of body issue, that part doesn't even make sense.

See, this is what I love about you and Balta...you constantly rip on all the big bad wolves, meanwhile, you play that very role in here with your intellectual elitism.

 

I'm not sure if you have many female friends, but I do...and I also have plenty of gay friends...and trust me, you are being judged a hell of a lot more than you know. You are correct inasmuch as men have a disproportionate amount of power for those judgments to sound out louder or manifest themselves in a more tangible manner, but ultimately, women are judging you a heck of a lot more than you think, IMHO, anyways.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

You're assuming EVERY boy is taking steroids to look more attractive or be more confident....or to pick up girls.

 

What about all those kids who want to bulk up for weightlifting, for playing football or a specific sport?

 

You can spin it as much as you like that the goal of every boy who is taking steroid is sexually-related, but if you're familiar with them, you also know they will destroy your ability to get an erection (see Anthony Mackie's character in PAIN & GAIN)...the irony of them making you more physically potent looking but sexually impotent.

 

Well it goes hand in hand. Why do people weightlift, play football?

 

To get girls/boys. Its all the same.

[StrangeSox]

Its a pretty big assumption that its male driven, it actually may be more female driven. I think there are some studies that suggest females are harder on other females about looks than men are about other men.

 

That would mean you need to make women more appealing because both sides judge.

 

Now i cant find the evidence that quick, but it is something I do recall.

 

It's culturally driven and yes, women can be the harshest critics of other women. It's male-driven to the extent that our culture is male-driven.

[iamshack]

You're assuming EVERY boy is taking steroids to look more attractive or be more confident....or to pick up girls.

 

What about all those kids who want to bulk up for weightlifting, for playing football or a specific sport?

 

You can spin it as much as you like that the goal of every boy who is taking steroid is sexually-related, but if you're familiar with them, you also know they will destroy your ability to get an erection (see Anthony Mackie's character in PAIN & GAIN)...the irony of them making you more physically potent looking but sexually impotent.

I think that is the point many of us are trying to make though...it's not about sex. Sex just happens to be what drives most men. Men do things to try and appeal to women. And those things can be equally unhealthy or devastating.

[StrangeSox]

Well it goes hand in hand. Why do people weightlift, play football?

 

To get girls/boys. Its all the same.

That's a pretty reductionist view.

[Soxbadger]

See, this is what I love about you...you constantly rip on all the big bad wolves, meanwhile, you play that very role in here with your intellectual elitism.

 

Its not very becoming either. I find anyone who does that instantly not credible.

 

 

[iamshack]

Everyone is judged by attractiveness. It's not very "rationale" (sic) to make up some arguments nobody is actually making in order to knock them down. Women are, without a question, sexualized in our society more than men.

Here you go again, flexing your intellectual muscles.

 

To quote one of my favorite movie characters, I bet you feel strong and good.

[illinilaw08]

Absolutely. Ive never said anything contrary. Those are major issues.

 

I just think its hypocritical to scream about how girls are portrayed and not even mention how boys are portrayed.

 

That is my entire argument, that if you are going to b**** at Disney, b**** at them about ALL CHARACTERS, not just female.

 

That seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

One difference. I can show that media portrayal of women in the media leads to bulimia and anorexia in women with a frequency of 9x that of men. While the figures on steroid use aren't clear in the articles you linked, they show high incidences of use of protein shakes (which don't have negative side effects - maybe I'm ignorant, but why is that included - but I digress) in both genders. Ergo, I can't point to the Disney portrayal of heroes as leading to negative male body image (not to mention that the Disney Princesses clearly target young girls over boys). I can with women.

 

Maybe I'm arguing semantics here....

 

EDIT: The other difference is that anroexia and bulimia make you weaker. Not stronger. There are plenty of people that debate the actual harmful effects of PEDs. Everyone agrees that bulimia and anorexia are major health issues.

Edited May 14, 2013 by illinilaw08

[iamshack]

One difference. I can show that media portrayal of women in the media leads to bulimia and anorexia in women with a frequency of 9x that of men. While the figures on steroid use aren't clear in the articles you linked, they show high incidences of use of protein shakes (which don't have negative side effects - maybe I'm ignorant, but why is that included - but I digress) in both genders. Ergo, I can't point to the Disney portrayal of heroes as leading to negative male body image (not to mention that the Disney Princesses clearly target young girls over boys). I can with women.

 

Maybe I'm arguing semantics here....

Let me ask you this...is it any easier for men to try to attain the body that most men in these fantasies are portrayed with than it is for women to attain the body that women are portrayed with?

[StrangeSox]

See, this is what I love about you and Balta...you constantly rip on all the big bad wolves, meanwhile, you play that very role in here with your intellectual elitism.

 

leave my over-played analogy alone, bro. (I don't think a lame Olympic medal joke is the mark of intellectual elitism!)

 

I'm not sure if you have many female friends, but I do...and I also have plenty of gay friends...and trust me, you are being judged a hell of a lot more than you know. You are correct inasmuch as men have a disproportionate amount of power for those judgments to sound out louder or manifest themselves in a more tangible manner, but ultimately, women are judging you a heck of a lot more than you think, IMHO, anyways.

 

See, I think you and I pretty much agree here. Women are sexualized and judged more and it impedes them more because men have power. It's a self-reinforcing cycle.

 

This plays out in so much of femininity being sexualized and held to an unrealistic standard of beauty.

[StrangeSox]

Here you go again, flexing your intellectual muscles.

 

To quote one of my favorite movie characters, I bet you feel strong and good.

I only did that in response to Soxbadgers "look guys, we're being so rational here, but they're not!" crap.

[Soxbadger]

Illini,

 

To the best of my knowledge Disney isnt portraying an princess with an eating issue. I dont know if there is an actual correlation between Disney princesses and the eating disorders.

 

What I can say is that if you are going to argue that the media can impact children negatively and cause disorders, that we should be honest and admit that it likely affects boys and girls equally.

 

Unless of course we are arguing that girls are somehow different than boys and therefore are more susceptible to the media.

 

But I dont believe that, I think boys and girls are equal.

[StrangeSox]

Let me ask you this...is it any easier for men to try to attain the body that most men in these fantasies are portrayed with than it is for women to attain the body that women are portrayed with?

 

Given that it's literally impossible for women to obtain the bodies portrayed in the media/culture without photoshop or rib-removal surgery?

[Soxbadger]

Here you go again, flexing your intellectual muscles.

 

To quote one of my favorite movie characters, I bet you feel strong and good.

 

Its the last defense of a beaten internet poster. Youre (haha intentional) argument is better than mine, but you dont know how to spell "your" so you are dumb!

 

Doesnt work that way in real life, ideas count, spelling doesnt.

 

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Illini,

 

To the best of my knowledge Disney isnt portraying an princess with an eating issue. I dont know if there is an actual correlation between Disney princesses and the eating disorders.

 

What I can say is that if you are going to argue that the media can impact children negatively and cause disorders, that we should be honest and admit that it likely affects boys and girls equally.

 

Unless of course we are arguing that girls are somehow different than boys and therefore are more susceptible to the media.

 

But I dont believe that, I think boys and girls are equal.

 

You're saying that an argument about a specific action by Disney should be made as broad as possible instead of focusing on the actual issue at hand. Advocacy involves both roles, and there's a place for both. If they're upset about a very recent move to sexualize a specific character, they don't need to (and probably shouldn't) launch into a 5000 word article on every issue with Disney characters or our culture's representation of ideals, sexualization of women, etc.

 

I can't imagine modern feminists being a-okay with gender norms for boys or unrealistic standards and sexualization of childrens' movies.

[Jenksismyhero]

Still waiting for a quote there, buddy.

 

Stop objectifying women and judging them based on their looks in virtually every context. Don't sexualize everything feminine or female.

[StrangeSox]

Its the last defense of a beaten internet poster. Youre (haha intentional) argument is better than mine, but you dont know how to spell "your" so you are dumb!

 

Doesnt work that way in real life, ideas count, spelling doesnt.

Pretty sweet response in that you ignore everything but the jab.

[Jenksismyhero]

Everyone is judged by attractiveness. It's not very "rationale" (sic) to make up some arguments nobody is actually making in order to knock them down. Women are, without a question, sexualized in our society more than men.

 

And that wouldn't have anything to do with men being more sexual by nature, would it?