Tyler Flowers vs. Hector Gimenez

[The Ginger Kid]

Fluff piece courtesy of Scott Merkin:

 

http://m.mlb.com/cws/news/article/2013052248335946/

 

One takeaway is a Hahn quote stating that switching to Phegley could have unintended consequences for the pitching staff. I could see some risk involved, especially if Phegley is considered a poor game caller. Having a full spring training to work with pitchers would obviously be more ideal, but at some point you have to roll the dice IF Flowers continues to struggle and IF you're still in the playoff hunt later in the season. For now, I think you keep rolling with Flowers and hope he can show some improvement soon.

Yeah, I'm not buying it, Hahn. Flowers' defense is atrocious. How many more PB's is he going to get? I'll gladly risk the "unforeseen consequences."

[GoGoSox2k2]

would not mind seeing us make a run at the recently demoted Jesus Montero. Perfect buy-low situation with him. Even though his defense at Catcher is awful.. and that may be giving him to much credit

[LittleHurt05]

would not mind seeing us make a run at the recently demoted Jesus Montero. Perfect buy-low situation with him. Even though his defense at Catcher is awful.. and that may be giving him to much credit

 

He's just like Tyler Flowers, only worse.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Fluff piece courtesy of Scott Merkin:

 

http://m.mlb.com/cws/news/article/2013052248335946/

 

One takeaway is a Hahn quote stating that switching to Phegley could have unintended consequences for the pitching staff. I could see some risk involved, especially if Phegley is considered a poor game caller. Having a full spring training to work with pitchers would obviously be more ideal, but at some point you have to roll the dice IF Flowers continues to struggle and IF you're still in the playoff hunt later in the season. For now, I think you keep rolling with Flowers and hope he can show some improvement soon.

 

Wow, this is dumb. Yes, let's worry about the pitching staff when it's quite clear that the offense is holding this team back.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'm 100% for Gimenez getting more starts. Plenty of RH pitchers . They should be a 50/50 platoon at the very least . If both keep having passed balls, I'd call that some circumstances that impact the pitching staff more than we want already.

[Steve9347]

Josh Phegley is batting .333/.400/.651 with 10 home runs and 28 RBI through 34 games at Triple-A Charlotte.

Phegley is having a breakout year offensively and currently leads the International League with a .651 slugging-percentage. The White Sox would ideally wait until mid-June to promote Phegley to avoid Super 2 status, but they might not be able to resist calling him up for much longer with Tyler Flowers and Hector Gimenez struggling.

 

per rotoworld.

[Dick Allen]

Josh Phegley is batting .333/.400/.651 with 10 home runs and 28 RBI through 34 games at Triple-A Charlotte.

Phegley is having a breakout year offensively and currently leads the International League with a .651 slugging-percentage. The White Sox would ideally wait until mid-June to promote Phegley to avoid Super 2 status, but they might not be able to resist calling him up for much longer with Tyler Flowers and Hector Gimenez struggling.

 

per rotoworld.

By the time they decide to call him up, he will have cooled down. The same thing happened with Viciedo a couple of years ago. Call him up while he's hot.

[Jake]

The guy has never posted good numbers at any level. You might want to give him a chance to solve AAA pitching decisively, not just over 34 games.

[NorthSideSox72]

Pitcher handling isn't dumb, it is a real concern... but the key is, no one here knows how well Phegley does that.

 

Defensively, Phegley is probably a below average receiver. But right now at least, Flowers is already that. Phegley has a plus arm though, and Flowers' isn't bad but isn't that good either. So you might actually gain a bit there with Phegley.

 

But I don't blame Hahn et al for giving Flowers a solid half-season chance at least, before giving up on the guy. Another month or so is what I'd say he has, leash-wise, if he doesn't start hitting.

 

The guy has never posted good numbers at any level. You might want to give him a chance to solve AAA pitching decisively, not just over 34 games.

 

This is not really true, and also misses the point.

 

--In his draft year, Phegley skipped rookie ball to play at Kanny, and struggled with AVG, but did hit for some power, made decent contact, and he was heavily challenged skipping rookie ball like that.

 

--In 2010 (his first star towards a full year) he went two levels (A+, AA) and posted 290's AVG numbers, but then his health issues hit.

 

--2011 was his first almost-full year in the minors, and played AA and AAA - how many minor leaguers complete their first nearly full season at that high a level? Meanwhile he hit for a little power, and kep the contact rate solid. Despite a hand injury he was recovering from.

 

--2012 was his first true full season, healthy, in his minor league career. And he was at AAA doing it, less than 3 years from being drafted, and having just 800 career AB's (equivalent to about 1.5 minor league seasons). He struggled, predictably. But his contact rate was actually improving.

 

--Now in 2013, finally with a full healthy season under his belt and having AB's that are a little closer to normal for someone going to AAA... and he's finally living up to the bat potential (and then some) that made him a high pick.

 

You have to look at the whole story.

[Soxfest]

Josh Phegley is batting .333/.400/.651 with 10 home runs and 28 RBI through 34 games at Triple-A Charlotte.

Phegley is having a breakout year offensively and currently leads the International League with a .651 slugging-percentage. The White Sox would ideally wait until mid-June to promote Phegley to avoid Super 2 status, but they might not be able to resist calling him up for much longer with Tyler Flowers and Hector Gimenez struggling.

 

per rotoworld.

Mid June is fine with me ..................Bring him up.

[Balta1701]

By the time they decide to call him up, he will have cooled down. The same thing happened with Viciedo a couple of years ago. Call him up while he's hot.

Of course, if a guy is going to "Get cold" while in Charlotte, that also probably means they have more to learn.

[Jake]

Pitcher handling isn't dumb, it is a real concern... but the key is, no one here knows how well Phegley does that.

 

Defensively, Phegley is probably a below average receiver. But right now at least, Flowers is already that. Phegley has a plus arm though, and Flowers' isn't bad but isn't that good either. So you might actually gain a bit there with Phegley.

 

But I don't blame Hahn et al for giving Flowers a solid half-season chance at least, before giving up on the guy. Another month or so is what I'd say he has, leash-wise, if he doesn't start hitting.

 

 

 

This is not really true, and also misses the point.

 

--In his draft year, Phegley skipped rookie ball to play at Kanny, and struggled with AVG, but did hit for some power, made decent contact, and he was heavily challenged skipping rookie ball like that.

 

--In 2010 (his first star towards a full year) he went two levels (A+, AA) and posted 290's AVG numbers, but then his health issues hit.

 

--2011 was his first almost-full year in the minors, and played AA and AAA - how many minor leaguers complete their first nearly full season at that high a level? Meanwhile he hit for a little power, and kep the contact rate solid. Despite a hand injury he was recovering from.

 

--2012 was his first true full season, healthy, in his minor league career. And he was at AAA doing it, less than 3 years from being drafted, and having just 800 career AB's (equivalent to about 1.5 minor league seasons). He struggled, predictably. But his contact rate was actually improving.

 

--Now in 2013, finally with a full healthy season under his belt and having AB's that are a little closer to normal for someone going to AAA... and he's finally living up to the bat potential (and then some) that made him a high pick.

 

You have to look at the whole story.

 

I'm not saying that he should have had better numbers or hasn't improved, but a guy with a career .718 minor league OPS has a lot to prove. This year is encouraging, but in no way guarantees MLB production. There is a pretty good chance that he, too, would "struggle, predictably" if we push him up another level right just as he begins to figure out AAA pitching.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Of course, if a guy is going to "Get cold" while in Charlotte, that also probably means they have more to learn.

I don't fully agree with that. All hitters have streaks, good and bad. And Phegley will not likely keep up numbers THIS strong all season. He'll come down from there almost certainly, but that doesn't mean the first 2 months were dumb luck, nor does it necessarily mean he's got some major flaw. It could be a real shortcoming, or it could be luck catching up with him, or both.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm not saying that he should have had better numbers or hasn't improved, but a guy with a career .718 minor league OPS has a lot to prove. This year is encouraging, but in no way guarantees MLB production. There is a pretty good chance that he, too, would "struggle, predictably" if we push him up another level right just as he begins to figure out AAA pitching.

I wouldn't say he guarantees MLB production either - very few guys coming out of AAA do. I'm saying that career minor league OPS number has very little meaning by itself.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Flowers is out of options right?

[Steve9347]

Flowers is out of options right?

Both in baseball and in life, I would imagine.

[southsider2k5]

Both in baseball and in life, I would imagine.

 

He is making half a million dollars a year. I doubt he is out of options in life.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

That's what AJ gave you that I always felt was underappreciated around here. He kept the back up in the dugout. If Flowers is winded right now, that's on him, and it's not because he was a back up. If he wants to use that as an excuse, it's proof he shouldn't be anything more than a back up. You would think if you were going to get your big chance, you would be in the best shape of your life, ready for anything.

 

If he is "winded" now, it is only going to get worse. If that's an excuse, he obviously can't hack it.

Thank you. I've been saying that for years. AJ's durability is a big asset and many here did not appreciate that. I predicted Flowers' defense would suffer once he got banged up a little by playing everyday but even I didn't expect it to happen as soon as it did.

 

Flowers' defensive prowess was overrated by many here, possibly because of the point you made about him being Peavy's personal catcher. I always thought AJ's defense was unfairly underrated by some because of the fact that he played banged up day in and day out. At any rate, Flowers has been no defensive upgrade over AJ.

[Steve9347]

He is making half a million dollars a year. I doubt he is out of options in life.

Shut up with your accurate statements and let me make funny statements.

[Jake]

Thank you. I've been saying that for years. AJ's durability is a big asset and many here did not appreciate that. I predicted Flowers' defense would suffer once he got banged up a little by playing everyday but even I didn't expect it to happen as soon as it did.

 

Flowers' defensive prowess was overrated by many here, possibly because of the point you made about him being Peavy's personal catcher. I always thought AJ's defense was unfairly underrated by some because of the fact that he played banged up day in and day out. At any rate, Flowers has been no defensive upgrade over AJ.

 

AJ had been fine defensively (not throwing) until last year. He began throwing better last season but his receiving was as bad as Flowers has been this year.

[Balta1701]

Thank you. I've been saying that for years. AJ's durability is a big asset and many here did not appreciate that. I predicted Flowers' defense would suffer once he got banged up a little by playing everyday but even I didn't expect it to happen as soon as it did.

 

Flowers' defensive prowess was overrated by many here, possibly because of the point you made about him being Peavy's personal catcher. I always thought AJ's defense was unfairly underrated by some because of the fact that he played banged up day in and day out. At any rate, Flowers has been no defensive upgrade over AJ.

Again...if this is the case, if playing while too banged up is hurting him and hurting the ballclub, why on Earth is there a backup catcher on the roster?

[kitekrazy]

Toby Hall vs. Chris Widger. Discuss.

 

Bill Naharodny vs. Wayne Nordhagen.

 

[kitekrazy]

This is probably the toughest position to fill in baseball. How many kids want to play this position. IF they can hit then they want to move them out of this position.

[caulfield12]

This is probably the toughest position to fill in baseball. How many kids want to play this position. IF they can hit then they want to move them out of this position.

 

 

But it's probably the easiest route to the majors, along with being a LH pitcher.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Gimenez please. Hes terrible but so much less terrible.