Dick Allen Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ May 27, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) The only redeeming quality of potentially dealing Peavy is that we would be trading from organizational strength, so we wouldn't be likely to be screwed without him. It would be very surprising to me if we couldn't have a good rotation without him. With that said, it will almost certainly be better with him. Peavy would be very hard to replace. Don't weaken your strength for question marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2013 -> 04:13 PM) Peavy would be very hard to replace. Don't weaken your strength for question marks. You know, right now...I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we have a good chance that next year, or even late this year, Johnny Danks can be the theoretical Peavy replacement. As others have noted, that still leaves the team with a 4 lefty starting rotation, which is definitely an oddity, but it does kinda make some sense. And we'd still be sitting there 6-deep in the rotation thanks to EJ. That said, if we're 2-3 games out at the deadline, screw it, I want Peavy in my rotation for the stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) You know, right now...I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we have a good chance that next year, or even late this year, Johnny Danks can be the theoretical Peavy replacement. As others have noted, that still leaves the team with a 4 lefty starting rotation, which is definitely an oddity, but it does kinda make some sense. And we'd still be sitting there 6-deep in the rotation thanks to EJ. That said, if we're 2-3 games out at the deadline, screw it, I want Peavy in my rotation for the stretch. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 27, 2013 -> 02:10 PM) Taking on the right contracts can work out. I think the Sox might at some point have taken on the contract of a bat that is working out fairly well. Although it would be nice to pretend 2009 and 2011 never happened with that aforementioned assumed contract...somehow, at least this far, Rios is getting out of the Brett Saberhagen, odd year/even year jinx pattern. It's working out NOW, but man, 2 of those first 3 seasons were really ROUGH ones. Edited May 27, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 27, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) General terms again, Dick Allen. Which "bats" this offseason? You prefer taking on contracts like the Jays, how's that working out?? ROFL! Kendrys Morales would make A TON of sense but you've already shot down that idea for whatever reason. Though I doubt Cincy lets him go I would love Shin-Soo Choo as well(To replace De Aza). With those 2 signings you help the top and middle of the lineup. Both guys have 3-4 more good years in them IMO and by that point hopefully something comes out of the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) You know, right now...I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we have a good chance that next year, or even late this year, Johnny Danks can be the theoretical Peavy replacement. As others have noted, that still leaves the team with a 4 lefty starting rotation, which is definitely an oddity, but it does kinda make some sense. And we'd still be sitting there 6-deep in the rotation thanks to EJ. That said, if we're 2-3 games out at the deadline, screw it, I want Peavy in my rotation for the stretch. If you're trying to win a World Series, then Peavy is basically irreplaceable. He's pitching like a legit #1 starter right now. We may be able replace most of his regular season innings and do so at a respectable level, but not his role in a potential playoff series. Pencil him behind Sale and you've got one of the best 1-2 punches in baseball. That can be a deadly combination come October. Plus Quintana & Danks (or even Santiago) slot much better as #3 & #4 starters in the postseason. Edited May 27, 2013 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) You know, right now...I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we have a good chance that next year, or even late this year, Johnny Danks can be the theoretical Peavy replacement. As others have noted, that still leaves the team with a 4 lefty starting rotation, which is definitely an oddity, but it does kinda make some sense. And we'd still be sitting there 6-deep in the rotation thanks to EJ. That said, if we're 2-3 games out at the deadline, screw it, I want Peavy in my rotation for the stretch. No one on this board is a bigger fan of Danks than me. He is, however, a work in progress. He is one bad start from several around here telling us his career is over. Floyd, Konerko, Thornton off the books and $25 million more a year in the bank account anyway. Keep Peavy and improve the offense. As the Dodgers have shown, you never have enough starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2013 -> 05:34 PM) No one on this board is a bigger fan of Danks than me. He is, however, a work in progress. He is one bad start from several around here telling us his career is over. Floyd, Konerko, Thornton off the books and $25 million more a year in the bank account anyway. Keep Peavy and improve the offense. As the Dodgers have shown, you never have enough starters. You know? You really kinda can. We're at 6 MLB starters right now...to the point that we're putting one in the bullpen so that he stays in the bigs. 2 quality relievers would be more valuable to us than the next starter. If EJ keeps developing, and on top of that we have another out of the 2-3 guys who could potentially be starters for us step up...we're going to be talking about a rotation that is 7-8 deep for guys who legitimately should be in the big leagues. We started this year with 6, one went down, now we've added another...if we put Johnson in that MLB ready list...that's just an abundance of starting pitching. If we're that overwhelming on starting pitching and we need cost controlled bats...it starts becoming a trade that makes sense if the right partner appears...and pitching, particularly left-handed pitching, always should be an asset in demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 We've got a guy in Peavy that is currently pitching with an ERA below 3, we're four games back at Memorial Day, he's signed to a below market deal. Makes sense that we'd be discussing what we could get for him in a deal at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 27, 2013 -> 05:40 PM) We've got a guy in Peavy that is currently pitching with an ERA below 3, we're four games back at Memorial Day, he's signed to a below market deal. Makes sense that we'd be discussing what we could get for him in a deal at this point. If we weren't I'd be wondering why I wasn't at Soxtalk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2013 -> 05:54 PM) If we weren't I'd be wondering why I wasn't at Soxtalk... To that end, we haven't been particularly strong at selling off parts. I'm not sure I trust this organization to do a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksfan61 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2013 -> 04:15 PM) You know, right now...I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we have a good chance that next year, or even late this year, Johnny Danks can be the theoretical Peavy replacement. As others have noted, that still leaves the team with a 4 lefty starting rotation, which is definitely an oddity, but it does kinda make some sense. And we'd still be sitting there 6-deep in the rotation thanks to EJ. That said, if we're 2-3 games out at the deadline, screw it, I want Peavy in my rotation for the stretch. Why is Peavy criminally underrated on this site? I think people are underestimating how good Peavy was last year and how good he has been so far this year. Yes I know the Tigers lit him up last year but Danks stands as a very very poor man's Jake Peavy. The only year Danks has even come close to matching Peavy's numbers from last year is in 2008, which was 5 years and a shoulder surgery ago. Keep the rotation, buy/trade for bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (hawksfan61 @ May 27, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) Why is Peavy criminally underrated on this site? I think people are underestimating how good Peavy was last year and how good he has been so far this year. Yes I know the Tigers lit him up last year but Danks stands as a very very poor man's Jake Peavy. The only year Danks has even come close to matching Peavy's numbers from last year is in 2008, which was 5 years and a shoulder surgery ago. Keep the rotation, buy/trade for bats. I don't understand it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (hawksfan61 @ May 27, 2013 -> 06:02 PM) Why is Peavy criminally underrated on this site? I think people are underestimating how good Peavy was last year and how good he has been so far this year. Yes I know the Tigers lit him up last year but Danks stands as a very very poor man's Jake Peavy. The only year Danks has even come close to matching Peavy's numbers from last year is in 2008, which was 5 years and a shoulder surgery ago. Keep the rotation, buy/trade for bats. Most everyone would be quite happy if Danks morphed into a Buehrle-esque, #3 starter, middle innings eater...as long as he doesn't become a huge contractual liability/albatross. The primary concern (with Peavy) is whether he can maintain it in the 2nd half. Along with that is the "Big Game" issue, especially against the Tigers. If you'll look at his pitch counts over the course of the 2012 season, you'd almost think he was being abused or overutilized to the nth degree with the thought he wasn't coming back to the Sox in 2013 and we wanted to maximize whatever we could get out of him. So there's always going to be that Verducci Effect concern with Sale/Peavy/Quintana....until they get through the entire 2013 season without any ill effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksfan61 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2013 -> 08:07 PM) Most everyone would be quite happy if Danks morphed into a Buehrle-esque, #3 starter, middle innings eater...as long as he doesn't become a huge contractual liability/albatross. The primary concern (with Peavy) is whether he can maintain it in the 2nd half. Along with that is the "Big Game" issue, especially against the Tigers. If you'll look at his pitch counts over the course of the 2012 season, you'd almost think he was being abused or overutilized to the nth degree with the thought he wasn't coming back to the Sox in 2013 and we wanted to maximize whatever we could get out of him. So there's always going to be that Verducci Effect concern with Sale/Peavy/Quintana....until they get through the entire 2013 season without any ill effects. So we need to trade Peavy because he MAY wear down later in the season? His replacements will be guys who are coming off of major shoulder surgery or young guys who have never pitched 180-200 innings (Axelrod/Santiago). What point are you trying to make here? How does trading him make the problem any better? BTW, the big game argument is stupid. With Peavy we have a better chance of playing "big games" whether they be against the Tigers in September or against the Rangers/Tigers/Yankees etc. in October. I will take my chances playing big games and hope the horses that got me there perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (hawksfan61 @ May 27, 2013 -> 06:12 PM) So we need to trade Peavy because he MAY wear down later in the season? His replacements will be guys who are coming off of major shoulder surgery or young guys who have never pitched 180-200 innings (Axelrod/Santiago). What point are you trying to make here? How does trading him make the problem any better? BTW, the big game argument is stupid. With Peavy we have a better chance of playing "big games" whether they be against the Tigers in September or against the Rangers/Tigers/Yankees etc. in October. I will take my chances playing big games and hope the horses that got me there perform. Nope. Only saying why he might have more value now or in the next two months than in the off-season (when he would only have 1 year left on his deal). Peavy should be traded ONLY if we could get a PREMIUM return, AND if we were clearly out of it....meaning 8-10 games back at XYZ point in July, when such decisions have to be made. Most don't trust the White Sox to execute this kind of trade correctly in the first place. But it wouldn't be an easy move to make, because we're two bats away from being a really good team if we could clean up our defensive miscues. Edited May 28, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2013 -> 07:22 PM) Nope. Only saying why he might have more value now or in the next two months than in the off-season (when he would only have 1 year left on his deal). Peavy should be traded ONLY if we could get a PREMIUM return, AND if we were clearly out of it....meaning 8-10 games back at XYZ point in July, when such decisions have to be made. Most don't trust the White Sox to execute this kind of trade correctly in the first place. But it wouldn't be an easy move to make, because we're two bats away from being a really good team if we could clean up our defensive miscues. Ide be surprised if this team wasnt 8-10 games out of first in mid July. We dont have the offense to compete this year and if guys like Rios, Peavy, Crain, etc. keep performing at a high level they will be in demand come deadline time and I sure hope that we are dealing these guys and not adding. Edited May 28, 2013 by TRU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 26, 2013 -> 07:12 PM) Marty Is one of those guys that loves to point out failure. Keppinger at SS is a dream scenerio for him. If he could only see that every time he posts. When I think of sports stupidy, outside of Bleedcoltblue, he is on the tops of my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:41 PM) If he could only see that every time he posts. When I think of sports stupidy, outside of Bleedcoltblue, he is on the tops of my list. ROFL! Ya got me good with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (hawksfan61 @ May 27, 2013 -> 09:56 AM) I think in five years both plans have about the same chance to succeed. However under the "re-tool" plan you haven't alienated the fanbase and presumably have some talent on the major league level to work with (if you are winning 80-82 games then you have some guys that can play). Under the set the world on fire plan in THEORY you could end up with the Rays (we will ignore the fact that they were godawful for 10 years before they became a 90 win team) but you also have a great chance to become the Pirates, Royals, Mariners, etc. I would rather delude myself with the re-tool method, because nothing about being out of the race on opening day for 5-7 years sounds appealing to me. All-stars can be found anywhere in the draft, ask the Angels and Cardinals. I would rather do it that way. That means having good scouts and keeping your owner from drafting the agent instead of the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) ROFL! Ya got me good with that one. It's like you are so involved in a fantasy sports team while the rest of the group is dealing with the current for real major league team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (TRU @ May 27, 2013 -> 08:33 PM) Ide be surprised if this team wasnt 8-10 games out of first in mid July. We dont have the offense to compete this year and if guys like Rios, Peavy, Crain, etc. keep performing at a high level they will be in demand come deadline time and I sure hope that we are dealing these guys and not adding. Then what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 White Sox fans are the only fans in MLB that get mad at their team for trying to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:50 PM) It's like you are so involved in a fantasy sports team while the rest of the group is dealing with the current for real major league team. Yes. There are no possible replacements for Flowers or Nate Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:52 PM) White Sox fans are the only fans in MLB that get mad at their team for trying to win. If they were "trying to win" Flowers and Jones wouldn't be on the roster and Danks would not get a rotation spot over Santiago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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