The next month, and possible "false positives"

[caulfield12]

These 30 games (27 upcoming)

 

3 over Miami (Last place, 20 games under .500)

2 CUBS (Last place, 11 games under)

2 at Cubs

3 at A's (2nd place, 5 games over)

3 at Mariners (4th place, 10 games under, 8 game losing streak)

3 A's

3 BLUE JAYS (Last place, 8 games under)

3 at Astros (Last place, 22 games under)

3 at Twins (Last place, 9 games under, just lost 10 in a row)

3 at Royals (4th place, 9 home losses in a row, 4-16 streak)

2 METS (4th place, 12 games under)

 

The schedule-making Gods couldn't have handed us a better late May/June schedule.

 

The teams we are playing are a combined 86 games under .500. We'll play 5 of the 6 last place teams in baseball (the only team we don't see is the NL West doormat). This doesn't even account for the fact that we faced the Angels twice when they were in last place (3-4 against them, but now winners of 8 in a row, including the first two against the Sox).

 

The only team above .500 we'll face is the A's, and they're a mirror image of the Sox, with limited offensive ability but very strong pitching, so those are games we should be in, as well.

 

So I'll take a cue from Flavum's "quantitative analysis" that we go 19-8 in our next 27 games to pull to 11 games over .500.

 

Then what do you do, remembering the Daniel Hudson trade from 2010 (including a 26-5 stretch against much better competition, including the Braves) and the team's fade-out in 2012 despite adding Myers, Liriano and Youkilis.

 

And also assuming we're in 1st or 2nd place, heading into the June 28th-30th home series against the Indians (4 games, including DH).

 

 

The only opportunity we really would be missing is NOT trading Jesse Crain...all the other players like Peavy, Rios and Ramirez could be traded at other times, albeit for not as high of a return.

 

Crain might be the most valuable set-up guy in baseball, and he's not likely to stay THIS HOT for the rest of the season, and he's only due $3 million for the next 4 months...but he's also the only glue holding the bullpen together.

 

If Santiago can actually slide into a 2nd lefty role (but not just LOOGY), pitching in games where we are ahead in the 5th/6th/7th, like Zumaya used to do with the Tigers...then we might just have enough, as long as Lindstrom OR Nate Jones are serviceable, and there's always the possibility of recalling Daniel Webb two months from now to replace Jones.

 

 

Conclusion: Find a veteran salary to take on, someone like Charles Johnson in 2000 (well, he was an All-Star)...maybe more along the lines of Carlos Ruiz of the Phillies that the entire pitching staff would respect and with playoff experience.

 

If you find the right reliever, buy his salary, but don't overpay with Erik Johnson or a minor leaguer we're really going to need in the future.

 

Beckham can play occasionally for Ramirez...just so he doesn't wear down. If you push Flowers back to the bench, that gives you a RH power threat against LHP to go with Wise and Keppinger/Gillaspie, whoever's not playing.

Edited May 27, 2013 by caulfield12

[cabiness42]

H) Wait until it's actually close to the trade deadline and then see where the Sox stand.

[gatnom]

Voted for the "Only take on players that add to payroll but not give up talent" option. With the Sox winning games again, selling off isn't looking like the best option anymore. However, I'd like to see them stand pat or only make acquisitions where they don't give up much of anything. This roster as constructed is plenty good enough to compete if they play to their potential, and I'd like to see the gaping wound that has been our farm system start to heal instead of opening it up yet again for what would likely be a marginal improvement.

 

 

[caulfield12]

And there's just no way we can get McCann (this year) or Gattis....we're going to have to wait until the off-season, or give away most of the best pieces remaining on our farm to rent McCann for 2-3 months.

 

And Atlanta's scouts would pick our system apart.

 

Don't like that option for the catching problem.

[caulfield12]

H) Wait until it's actually close to the trade deadline and then see where the Sox stand.

 

This whole scenario is predicated on the VERY HIGH likelihood we are contenders heading into the trade market.

 

With our pitching, the weather heating up, the crowds growing in the summer months...it's just hard for me to believe, without a major injury, that we're not 5-13 games over .500 at the end of June and still very much in the thick of the race.

Edited May 27, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Except the White Sox have already played six games over .500 since May 13 without being in the cupcake part of their schedule Tough to call that a false positive.

[Quin]

Call up Phegley might be an option as well.

 

I also said to add a pitcher to the bullpen.

[greg775]

Well, the Sox are technically in the race, so you don't do the firesale yet. You just can't.

It would be nice to acquire a catcher and a reliever, but what do the Sox give up? I'm all for adding payroll and bodies, but not giving up talent (how to accomplish that I have no idea).

 

I do anticipate the Sox continuing to flounder during games against Central Division teams. We haven't even played one game against Detroit yet. Does anybody expect us to do much against KC, Minnie or Cleveland? Even Minnie has looked good against the Sox.

Edited May 27, 2013 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Except the White Sox have already played six games over .500 since May 13 without being in the cupcake part of their schedule Tough to call that a false positive.

 

 

It's also hard to read much into sweeping the Marlins, one of the two worst teams in baseball, at home.

 

We also didn't have to face Jose Fernandez, FWIW.

 

 

We beat up the Twins just as they were just starting to go ice-cold, we faced the Angels when they were in last place and split and we beat up the Marlins, although all three games were nail biters.

 

That said, the way we played against Boston was encouraging.

 

We're also still sitting in negative territory in the RS/RA stat.

[greg775]

It's also hard to read much into sweeping the Marlins, one of the two worst teams in baseball, at home.

 

We also didn't have to face Jose Fernandez, FWIW.

 

 

We beat up the Twins just as they were just starting to go ice-cold, we faced the Angels when they were in last place and split and we beat up the Marlins, although all three games were nail biters.

 

That said, the way we played against Boston was encouraging.

 

We're also still sitting in negative territory in the RS/RA stat.

 

The Miami series meant nothing except it was nice to see the Sox complete the deal and sweep a minor league team. Obviously Sox could have lost one or two of the three, but didn't.

[The Ultimate Champion]

In the next 1-2 seasons we are going to need a new 1B, a new DH, we don't know what is going to happen up the middle with the C position/Beckham's development/Alexei getting older and more expensive, and then of course we're always going to have to fill holes due to trades, injuries, fall offs, etc. like any other team. I want the Sox to use this season to address more long-term needs, and then hopefully answer a couple questions heading into the offseason. I think we need to continue to build to do that. I think we need to deal some pieces and play guys like Flowers and Beckham no matter what they're doing, because it is make or break for them.

 

If however we try to contend then we had better win, because otherwise we'll have gained no ground, and in the process, we will have probably just used up a pre-arb year on some of our new core players while pushing our contention window back another season and making it more expensive. I think we should put players on the block and look to sell. DeAza, Alexei, Thornton, Crain, and if the deals are right then Rios and maybe Peavy if the organization really gets a hell of a deal. There's no reason to tear down the walls and try to play horrible baseball, but getting caught in the middle could really set us back.

 

Also, our starting staff is great but I'm not sure I'd believe in them in the playoffs this year anyway. That would be a long way off and both Santiago & Q will probably be at new innings highs, while Danks is still recovering, and Axe still has more to prove in the Majors IMO. We'd have Sale & Peavy leading a spotty offense with a ton of holes in it plus a reasonably good pen which should improve beyond where it is. We'd be dangerous if we were able to start Sale in Game 1 of the playoffs should we get there, but I'm not confident enough in this team as it is currently constructed to risk a better 2014 on it. I think that's stupid, because I really don't think we're far away from a longer contention period where we can look to add *vets* around a young core, not the other way around. It's a whole lot easier to patch together a winning team when you can trade unproven prospects that are probably going to bust/underwhelm anyway & hand out free agent money in order to acquire players with track records, but you can't do that when you don't have the youth & payroll space, and I don't think we're quite there yet.

[Heads22]

It's also hard to read much into sweeping the Marlins, one of the two worst teams in baseball, at home.

 

We also didn't have to face Jose Fernandez, FWIW.

 

 

We beat up the Twins just as they were just starting to go ice-cold, we faced the Angels when they were in last place and split and we beat up the Marlins, although all three games were nail biters.

That said, the way we played against Boston was encouraging.

 

We're also still sitting in negative territory in the RS/RA stat.

 

Well, you're not gonna get back in the race if you don't beat these teams, so we can't play it down too much.

[caulfield12]

In the next 1-2 seasons we are going to need a new 1B, a new DH, we don't know what is going to happen up the middle with the C position/Beckham's development/Alexei getting older and more expensive, and then of course we're always going to have to fill holes due to trades, injuries, fall offs, etc. like any other team. I want the Sox to use this season to address more long-term needs, and then hopefully answer a couple questions heading into the offseason. I think we need to continue to build to do that. I think we need to deal some pieces and play guys like Flowers and Beckham no matter what they're doing, because it is make or break for them.

 

If however we try to contend then we had better win, because otherwise we'll have gained no ground, and in the process, we will have probably just used up a pre-arb year on some of our new core players while pushing our contention window back another season and making it more expensive. I think we should put players on the block and look to sell. DeAza, Alexei, Thornton, Crain, and if the deals are right then Rios and maybe Peavy if the organization really gets a hell of a deal. There's no reason to tear down the walls and try to play horrible baseball, but getting caught in the middle could really set us back.

 

Also, our starting staff is great but I'm not sure I'd believe in them in the playoffs this year anyway. That would be a long way off and both Santiago & Q will probably be at new innings highs, while Danks is still recovering, and Axe still has more to prove in the Majors IMO. We'd have Sale & Peavy leading a spotty offense with a ton of holes in it plus a reasonably good pen which should improve beyond where it is. We'd be dangerous if we were able to start Sale in Game 1 of the playoffs should we get there, but I'm not confident enough in this team as it is currently constructed to risk a better 2014 on it. I think that's stupid, because I really don't think we're far away from a longer contention period where we can look to add *vets* around a young core, not the other way around. It's a whole lot easier to patch together a winning team when you can trade unproven prospects that are probably going to bust/underwhelm anyway & hand out free agent money in order to acquire players with track records, but you can't do that when you don't have the youth & payroll space, and I don't think we're quite there yet.

 

 

 

 

The last paragraph hits the nail on the head.

 

If you go with Flowers/Gimenez all season long, even in the heat of a pennant race when they're still flailing...history would say they would acquire a veteran, then you're left with the dilemmas of going into the offseason wondering if, for example, Phegley, could be the #1 or if Flowers had enough time to prove he COULDN'T get the job done.

 

Crain would give you the highest rate of return (obviously not including any of our starting pitching), and yet you'd be completely shooting in the foot almost any chance of competing in 2013 out the window with that deal.

 

Santiago becomes the long man/loogy or even bridge set-up guy along with Crain, then you're going to have a very hard time getting him into a high IP territory in 2014 without having to worry about the Verducci Effect the following season (what Sale, Quintana and Peavy are expected to weather this year)...

 

I'm not sure what DeAza, Lindstrom, Thornton, Axelrod, etc., being traded could get you back....probably not enough to FIX the current offense. Dump Thornton's salary, you almost have to keep Santiago in the bullpen, which probably isn't his best role with the full repertoire of pitches he has.

 

(I'm not even sure how DeAza going would help unless we had another leadoff hitter hidden somewhere or could acquire one who would put up a 800+ OPS, and that's more likely to happen ONLY if Alejandro stays....and then you have his high strikeout/defensive/base-running woes combined with his high WAR, nobody could tell you what to do with him and be 100% accurate).

 

Everyone agrees trading Peavy, Rios and Ramirez this year would pretty much cripple our chances for 2013....probably, you could add Crain to that list as well.

 

 

 

Or you roll the dice on being able to bring in McCann, Morales, Utley, Granderson, et al, in the offseason free agency period...but not making the playoffs again gives you limited payroll flexibility. It's a Catch 22. The only way to guarantee an increased payroll or attendance is making the playoffs in 2013.

Edited May 27, 2013 by caulfield12

[hawksfan61]

H) Wait until it's actually close to the trade deadline and then see where the Sox stand.

 

I) Caulfield is high as a kite 24/7 and everyone should probably ignore his "homeless man on a streetcorner preaching about how the aliens are going to come take our lunch money"-esque rants about white sox baseball or whatever topic du jour is being discussed on any given day.

 

What is the most important thing in baseball.......good starting pitching. What do we have........good starting pitching. I would almost say great starting pitching considering we have two guys with #1 capability. Do you think anyone wants to face this team in the playoffs? Sure we may have to win every game 2-1 and bite our nails down to bloddy nubs by the end of the season, but this team has great starting pitching.

 

If you could pick any area of a team to be great......offense.....starting pitching......relief pitching.....beer pong capability.......dong size.....anyone who has watched five minutes of baseball would say starting pitching is the area you want to be great, you worry about the rest later. You have Peavy for this year and next, as long as him and Sale are healthy, you do anything you can to win.

[caulfield12]

I) Caulfield is high as a kite 24/7 and everyone should probably ignore his "homeless man on a streetcorner preaching about how the aliens are going to come take our lunch money"-esque rants about white sox baseball or whatever topic du jour is being discussed on any given day.

 

What is the most important thing in baseball.......good starting pitching. What do we have........good starting pitching. I would almost say great starting pitching considering we have two guys with #1 capability. Do you think anyone wants to face this team in the playoffs? Sure we may have to win every game 2-1 and bite our nails down to bloddy nubs by the end of the season, but this team has great starting pitching.

 

If you could pick any area of a team to be great......offense.....starting pitching......relief pitching.....beer pong capability.......dong size.....anyone who has watched five minutes of baseball would say starting pitching is the area you want to be great, you worry about the rest later. You have Peavy for this year and next, as long as him and Sale are healthy, you do anything you can to win.

 

 

J) Hawksfan61 has all the answers (by the way, make sure to capitalize the names of sports teams)

 

Thanks for the compliments.

 

We'll see if Jake Peavy still looks like a #1 in August and September.

 

What was his record against the Tigers last year? Which team do we play the most in the 2nd half?

 

Hopefully you'll still be around in the 2nd half of the season to pop up and continue touting him as a #1.

 

It's one thing to beat up the Marlins, it's quite another to take out the Angels or Tigers.

Edited May 27, 2013 by caulfield12

[hawksfan61]

J) Hawksfan61 has all the answers (by the way, make sure to capitalize the names of sports teams)

 

Thanks for the compliments.

 

We'll see if Jake Peavy still looks like a #1 in August and September.

 

What was his record against the Tigers last year? Which team do we play the most in the 2nd half?

 

Hopefully you'll still be around in the 2nd half of the season to pop up and continue touting him as a #1.

 

It's one thing to beat up the Marlins, it's quite another to take out the Angels or Tigers.

 

Oh I don't capitalize sports teams names, better not listen to anything I have to say, because that is pretty important s***, as opposed to the king of the useless tangent act you have perfected around here.

 

Wins in May count the same as wins in April and September chief, and right now Peavy looks like a number one while Verlander looks like a number two or three. At the end of the day if the numbers at the end of the season says they are both pretty good starting pitchers isn't that a win for the White Sox?

 

Why are you even bringing up the Angels? They are hot garbage with a s***load of money sunk into mediocre aging players. Even if they were a 110 win team, they are in the west not the central, so cares what they do? All I care about is what the Royals, Twins, Tigers, and Indians do. The Twins are dogs*** with a ton of money tied up in non-superstar players like the M&M boys. The Royals, who guys like you love to give rub and tugs to every year, are spotting a big time .318 winning percentage in the month of May so I think we can forget about them being a 100 win team. That leaves the Tigers and the Indians, and we have a s***load of games left against both, and with a lot of pretty good starting pitching on our side I will take our chances from now until September.

 

All I ask is that this team stay competitive all season, because the 100 loss BS a lot of you are screaming about is no fun, and I would rather see the Astros and Twins of the world go that route.

[caulfield12]

Oh I don't capitalize sports teams names, better not listen to anything I have to say, because that is pretty important s***, as opposed to the king of the useless tangent act you have perfected around here.

 

Wins in May count the same as wins in April and September chief, and right now Peavy looks like a number one while Verlander looks like a number two or three. At the end of the day if the numbers at the end of the season says they are both pretty good starting pitchers isn't that a win for the White Sox?

 

Why are you even bringing up the Angels? They are hot garbage with a s***load of money sunk into mediocre aging players. Even if they were a 110 win team, they are in the west not the central, so cares what they do? All I care about is what the Royals, Twins, Tigers, and Indians do. The Twins are dogs*** with a ton of money tied up in non-superstar players like the M&M boys. The Royals, who guys like you love to give rub and tugs to every year, are spotting a big time .318 winning percentage in the month of May so I think we can forget about them being a 100 win team. That leaves the Tigers and the Indians, and we have a s***load of games left against both, and with a lot of pretty good starting pitching on our side I will take our chances from now until September.

All I ask is that this team stay competitive all season, because the 100 loss BS a lot of you are screaming about is no fun, and I would rather see the Astros and Twins of the world go that route.

 

 

What was the Royals' record against the White Sox from August 7th on last year?

 

9-3 (6-12 overall)

 

How many games did we lose the division to DET by?

 

3 games.

 

 

What was our record in 2011 against the Royals?

 

7-11

 

Seeing a trend?

 

 

What is our record inside of the division now, without having played the Tigers?

 

7-9

 

 

What are the odds that the Royals will play .318 ball for the remainder of the season and not have a burst of momentum from hiring a new manager? 0.00%

 

 

 

As for the Twins, Morneau will be gone after this year, they have 2 of the top 25 position prospects in the game and three potential front-line aces in Gibson, May and Meyer.

 

They're 50% of the way there in terms of getting ready for another run again.

 

Unfortunately for their fans, it's hard to be patient in Year 3 of a rebuilding project in a brand-new stadium.

 

The White Sox also haven't cut their payroll all the way down to $70 million. Ironic, because Pohlad is individually perhaps the richest of all baseball owners, but one of the most penurious.

Edited May 27, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Interest argument but the only problem is that Anibal Sanchez, their #4, is pitching like a #1. We actually seem to line up with them pretty well and have way better depth (Santiago, Johnson, Stewart has ML starts in an emergeny) and I wouldn't even know who the Tiger's 6th option would be. Only problem with our rotation is if it could hold up and I feel that they rotation has more resilience to crash/injury.

 

 

 

1. Chris Sale (5-2, 2.53/0.92 & AVG. ST: 7 IP) vs. Justin Verlander (5-4, 3.66/1.37 & AVG. ST: 5 2/3 IP)

 

2. Jake Peavy (6-2, 2.97/1.04 & AVG. ST: 6 2/3 IP ) vs. Maz Scherzer (7-0, 3.42/ .92 & AVG. ST: 6 2/3 IP)

 

3. Jose Quintana (3-1, 3.48/1.18 & AVG. ST: 5 1/3 IP )vs. Doug Fister (5-2, 3.65/1.26 & AVG. ST: 6 IP)

 

4. John Danks (1 Start) vs. Anibal Sanchez (5-2 2.38/1.12 AVG. ST:6 1/3 IP)

 

5. Dylan Axelrod (3-3, 4.21/1.28 & AVG. ST: 5 2/3 IP) vs. Rick Porcello (2-2, 6.28/1.42 & AVG. ST:5 1/3)

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id...2012/drew-smyly

LHP Drew Smyly, stats from last year when he was primarily starting...then bullpen over the final 6 weeks or so after Sanchez was acquired

 

Jason Berken also has MLB starts with the Orioles, at Charlotte.

Edited May 27, 2013 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

What was the Royals' record against the White Sox from August 7th on last year?

 

9-3 (6-12 overall)

 

How many games did we lose the division to DET by?

 

3 games.

 

 

What was our record in 2011 against the Royals?

 

7-11

 

Seeing a trend?

 

 

What is our record inside of the division now, without having played the Tigers?

 

7-9

 

 

What are the odds that the Royals will play .318 ball for the remainder of the season and not have a burst of momentum from hiring a new manager? 0.00%

 

 

 

As for the Twins, Morneau will be gone after this year, they have 2 of the top 25 position prospects in the game and three potential front-line aces in Gibson, May and Meyer.

 

They're 50% of the way there in terms of getting ready for another run again.

 

Unfortunately for their fans, it's hard to be patient in Year 3 of a rebuilding project in a brand-new stadium.

 

The White Sox also haven't cut their payroll all the way down to $70 million. Ironic, because Pohlad is individually perhaps the richest of all baseball owners, but one of the most penurious.

Caulfield, please don't take this as an insult, but you need to stop taking on both sides of an argument. This "can the Sox compete this year" discussion in particular. Sometimes you argue for us competing, sometimes you argue it's a lost cause. I get it's been a sea-saw of a season, but your argument shouldn't change in a matter of minutes. I've seen you change your tone depending on what certain posters say. You seem to have a vast knowledge about the game of baseball, so stick to one side of an argument and people will take your comments much more seriously.

 

Anyways, the one thing I wanted to point out in your post is your comment about the Twins' prospects. There is a problem on this website with overhyping other teams' prospects. No one can argue that Twins don't have one of the most talented systems in baseball with a couple of incredibly high-end talents. Having said that, even the best prospects flop at a certain percetage. Many posters on this site assume all these top prospects will make it, as long they don't play for the Sox. This happens with the Royals almost every year. Hosmer & Moustakas were among the best prospects in baseball and look where they are right now. They've underperformed just like our own Gordon Beckham. All I'm trying to say is that these Twins prospects may end up making it, but nothing is ever promised in baseball and it's going to be years before they all come together and are ready to form a competitive core. Let's not jump to conclusions yet.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Chicago White Sox

[gosox41]

These 30 games (27 upcoming)

 

3 over Miami (Last place, 20 games under .500)

2 CUBS (Last place, 11 games under)

2 at Cubs

3 at A's (2nd place, 5 games over)

3 at Mariners (4th place, 10 games under, 8 game losing streak)

3 A's

3 BLUE JAYS (Last place, 8 games under)

3 at Astros (Last place, 22 games under)

3 at Twins (Last place, 9 games under, just lost 10 in a row)

3 at Royals (4th place, 9 home losses in a row, 4-16 streak)

2 METS (4th place, 12 games under)

 

The schedule-making Gods couldn't have handed us a better late May/June schedule.

 

The teams we are playing are a combined 86 games under .500. We'll play 5 of the 6 last place teams in baseball (the only team we don't see is the NL West doormat). This doesn't even account for the fact that we faced the Angels twice when they were in last place (3-4 against them, but now winners of 8 in a row, including the first two against the Sox).

 

The only team above .500 we'll face is the A's, and they're a mirror image of the Sox, with limited offensive ability but very strong pitching, so those are games we should be in, as well.

 

So I'll take a cue from Flavum's "quantitative analysis" that we go 19-8 in our next 27 games to pull to 11 games over .500.

 

Then what do you do, remembering the Daniel Hudson trade from 2010 (including a 26-5 stretch against much better competition, including the Braves) and the team's fade-out in 2012 despite adding Myers, Liriano and Youkilis.

 

And also assuming we're in 1st or 2nd place, heading into the June 28th-30th home series against the Indians (4 games, including DH).

 

 

The only opportunity we really would be missing is NOT trading Jesse Crain...all the other players like Peavy, Rios and Ramirez could be traded at other times, albeit for not as high of a return.

 

Crain might be the most valuable set-up guy in baseball, and he's not likely to stay THIS HOT for the rest of the season, and he's only due $3 million for the next 4 months...but he's also the only glue holding the bullpen together.

 

If Santiago can actually slide into a 2nd lefty role (but not just LOOGY), pitching in games where we are ahead in the 5th/6th/7th, like Zumaya used to do with the Tigers...then we might just have enough, as long as Lindstrom OR Nate Jones are serviceable, and there's always the possibility of recalling Daniel Webb two months from now to replace Jones.

 

 

Conclusion: Find a veteran salary to take on, someone like Charles Johnson in 2000 (well, he was an All-Star)...maybe more along the lines of Carlos Ruiz of the Phillies that the entire pitching staff would respect and with playoff experience.

 

If you find the right reliever, buy his salary, but don't overpay with Erik Johnson or a minor leaguer we're really going to need in the future.

 

Beckham can play occasionally for Ramirez...just so he doesn't wear down. If you push Flowers back to the bench, that gives you a RH power threat against LHP to go with Wise and Keppinger/Gillaspie, whoever's not playing.

 

 

On the flip side, I thought the Sox had one of the tougher schedules of any team in the AL ain April and May. That fact that they are now .500 after what I think is a tough schedule as well as that horrible start they got out too (no matter how tough the schedule, a lot of players were garbage the first 6 weeks of the season) gives some hope.

 

 

But 17 against Detroit starting in July. That's our season.

 

 

Bob

[Texsox]

BTW, do most people consider "Team" to be the 25-man or 40-man rosters? I'vew always considered it the 40 for discussions like this.

 

It seems like, and I really wouldn't mind of someone disprooved or prooved this point, but I can't think of an instant where a mid season trade really made that much of a difference.

[caulfield12]

Caulfield, please don't take this as an insult, but you need to stop taking on both sides of an argument. This "can the Sox compete this year" discussion in particular. Sometimes you argue for us competing, sometimes you argue it's a lost cause. I get it's been a sea-saw of a season, but your argument shouldn't change in a matter of minutes. I've seen you change your tone depending on what certain posters say. You seem to have a vast knowledge about the game of baseball, so stick to one side of an argument and people will take your comments much more seriously.

 

Anyways, the one thing I wanted to point out in your post is your comment about the Twins' prospects. There is a problem on this website with overhyping other teams' prospects. No one can argue that Twins don't have one of the most talented systems in baseball with a couple of incredibly high-end talents. Having said that, even the best prospects flop at a certain percetage. Many posters on this site assume all these top prospects will make it, as long they don't play for the Sox. This happens with the Royals almost every year. Hosmer & Moustakas were among the best prospects in baseball and look where they are right now. They've underperformed just like our own Gordon Beckham. All I'm trying to say is that these Twins prospects may end up making it, but nothing is ever promised in baseball and it's going to be years before they all come together and are ready to form a competitive core. Let's not jump to conclusions yet.

 

 

If you're not willing to change your position, then you're dead.

 

The White Sox were ready to sell off in 2007 and 2010 (in late May) and then changed their minds.

 

Are they better off now as a franchise because of making the playoffs in 2008 and coming close in 2010 and 2012?

 

Hard to say. But I wouldn't want a GM who was going to force Tyler Flowers down our throats the entire season...one who wouldn't at least look into improving the bullpen...or be completely unwilling to revise their strategy as the season unfolded.

 

KW made a lot of emotional decisions himself. He got stiffed on acquiring Adam Dunn by Rizzo, surrendering Daniel Hudson to the DBacks after a grand total of 3 starts (only one which could be defined as "bad") in the heart of a pennant race...then ultimately gave Jackson up for nothing in order to get Teahen off the books and erase a bad personnel decision which should never have been made in the first place.

 

He gave Sergio Santos an extension, then turned around and flipped him weeks later...then signed John Danks to a long-term extension. If Toronto was willing to take on that contract, they too would have been willing to give it to Sergio, so how could that possibly have been part of the plan from the very beginning? Why wasn't he shopped around to all the teams in baseball, who could have made an agreement (had they wanted) with the Sox that negotiating an extension would be part of the deal, had they so desired (like our Freddy Garcia move in 2004). At that point, he still had four more years before free agency.

 

He got so frustrated with our minor league system that he forced Nick Swisher into CF and lead-off (two places he didn't belong), then gave Swisher up for absolutely nothing, costing us one of the best young lefty prospects in the game.

 

If there was EVER a long-term plan that wasn't more a combination of Mississippi River boat gambling and hoping and praying a bunch of talented players who came from different systems could be miraculously thrown together into a cohesive whole...I'd like to know what it was.

 

Our scouting of undervalued players from other organizations, pitching expertise/Cooper and run of anomalous good health (Herm Schneider) has always been offset by changeable, inconsistent decision-making in the front office.

 

 

And there are some players I've never once advocated trading: Sale, Viciedo, Quintana and Santiago, to name 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

If you're not willing to change your position, then you're dead.

 

The White Sox were ready to sell off in 2007 and 2010 (in late May) and then changed their minds.

 

Are they better off now as a franchise because of making the playoffs in 2008 and coming close in 2010 and 2012?

 

Hard to say. But I wouldn't want a GM who was going to force Tyler Flowers down our throats the entire season...one who wouldn't at least look into improving the bullpen...or be completely unwilling to revise their strategy as the season unfolded.

 

KW made a lot of emotional decisions himself. He got stiffed on acquiring Adam Dunn by Rizzo, surrendering Daniel Hudson to the DBacks after a grand total of 3 starts (only one which could be defined as "bad") in the heart of a pennant race...then ultimately gave Jackson up for nothing in order to get Teahen off the books and erase a bad personnel decision which should never have been made in the first place.

 

He gave Sergio Santos an extension, then turned around and flipped him weeks later...then signed John Danks to a long-term extension. If Toronto was willing to take on that contract, they too would have been willing to give it to Sergio, so how could that possibly have been part of the plan from the very beginning? Why wasn't he shopped around to all the teams in baseball, who could have made an agreement (had they wanted) with the Sox that negotiating an extension would be part of the deal, had they so desired (like our Freddy Garcia move in 2004). At that point, he still had four more years before free agency.

 

He got so frustrated with our minor league system that he forced Nick Swisher into CF and lead-off (two places he didn't belong), then gave Swisher up for absolutely nothing, costing us one of the best young lefty prospects in the game.

 

If there was EVER a long-term plan that wasn't more a combination of Mississippi River boat gambling and hoping and praying a bunch of talented players who came from different systems could be miraculously thrown together into a cohesive whole...I'd like to know what it was.

 

Our scouting of undervalued players from other organizations, pitching expertise/Cooper and run of anomalous good health (Herm Schneider) has always been offset by changeable, inconsistent decision-making in the front office.

 

 

And there are some players I've never once advocated trading: Sale, Viciedo, Quintana and Santiago, to name 4.

 

You mention 2 names often, I haven't kept up with them, but how have Hudson and Santos been the last couple of seasons? How would keeping them around hve improved the chances for last year and this?

[caulfield12]

BTW, do most people consider "Team" to be the 25-man or 40-man rosters? I'vew always considered it the 40 for discussions like this.

 

It seems like, and I really wouldn't mind of someone disprooved or prooved this point, but I can't think of an instant where a mid season trade really made that much of a difference.

 

 

Last year, the Tigers added Anibal Sanchez and Omar Infante.

 

The previous year, it was Doug Fister.

 

Both those trades had huge impacts on DET making the playoffs in 2011 and 2012. There's no argument those moves helped push them over the top.

 

For short-term/long-term, Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz, or Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell, for all four teams.

 

 

For the White Sox, the 1983 acquisition of Julio Cruz for Tony Bernazard on June 15th of that year. From that point onward, the White Sox were simply unstoppable.

[hawksfan61]

What was the Royals' record against the White Sox from August 7th on last year?

 

9-3 (6-12 overall)

 

How many games did we lose the division to DET by?

 

3 games.

 

 

What was our record in 2011 against the Royals?

 

7-11

 

Seeing a trend?

 

 

What is our record inside of the division now, without having played the Tigers?

 

7-9

 

 

What are the odds that the Royals will play .318 ball for the remainder of the season and not have a burst of momentum from hiring a new manager? 0.00%

 

 

 

As for the Twins, Morneau will be gone after this year, they have 2 of the top 25 position prospects in the game and three potential front-line aces in Gibson, May and Meyer.

 

They're 50% of the way there in terms of getting ready for another run again.

 

Unfortunately for their fans, it's hard to be patient in Year 3 of a rebuilding project in a brand-new stadium.

 

The White Sox also haven't cut their payroll all the way down to $70 million. Ironic, because Pohlad is individually perhaps the richest of all baseball owners, but one of the most penurious.

 

Who cares what the Sox record was against the Royals last year? Records against teams from previous years have no impact on our performance against them this year, you know this right?

 

The Royals probably won't play .318 ball the rest of the year, but they sure are playing it now and its not because of Ned Yost, its because their beloved prospects for the most part can't hit major league pitching. I know this is going to come as a surprise to some, but Top 100 prospects do not all turn out to be all stars, and the Royals have a handful of them on their roster right now.

 

As far as the Twins go......who cares? Their team is horrible this year, was horrible the last two years, and will probably suck for two years after this. If the Sox has Mauer on the books at 23 per until he was 35 years old a lot of people on this board would crying and throwing their toys out of the playpen that we didn't trade him five years ago for a boatload of lottery tickets. I won't deny that the Twins have some nice pieces in the minor leagues, but prospects are NEVER a guarantee, and you don't change the long term strategy of your team based on the lottery tickets that a team with 96 and 99 loses the past two years hold.