Where is Phegley?

[caulfield12]

Service time would be a pretty surprising reason for holding Phegley back, since he wasn't close to being considered the catcher of the future until these first 2 months of 2013...

 

I don't think anyone in the organization was projecting him as a potential starting catcher at the major league level based on his health and what we'd seen so far.

 

That said, Flowers seems to be really struggling with the daily grind, and that's hard to understand at his age and with an entire off-season to prepare for the starting role, knowing AJ wasn't coming back.

 

It's also disappointing he's been suffering some aches and pains...like back spasms in the last week...without really playing at anywhere near the level of innings/pitches caught AJ averaged in his sleep even in his mid 30's.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It's not really but Gimenez deserves a shot too and that shot would take us to Phegley's service time.

[Soxfest]

Our catching situation is bad right now (even worse than I was saying it would be this past off season). Meanwhile, Phegley is tearing up AAA. In the very least, he can't be any worse than Flowers...right? I dont think that is possible.

 

 

Are we really thst concerned about the service time of Josh Phegley? This at the potential cost of victories at the major league level?

Yes they are they do not want to make him a super 2 arbitration status.

[Chicago White Sox]

At what point in Flowers' Minor League career did he ever have a productive stretch like the one Phegley has had for the first 25% of the season?

Flowers had one great Arizona Fall League Season, and that was what convinced K.W. to go after him. Beyond that, he never has demonstrated the kind of offense Josh is showing.

 

Defensively, Phegley has a good arm and can block balls in the dirt. You don't hear much about his pitch calling, but that could be done from the bench.

We all know that Phegley had health issues that account for his previous struggles. He was a very highly rated offensive player when drafted.

Flowers had a .939 OPS in 2009 and has put up an .838 OPS or better every year of his minor league career but one. Let's be honest, Tyler Flowers' career minor league numbers blow Phegley's out of the water outside of a 2 month stretch.

 

The concern with Phegley is he has never hit like this before. If you call him up right now and he struggles the rest of the way, you're putting yourself in a tough spot for next year. You won't know if those two months were flukes. How do you then decide if you want to roll with him as your starting catcher in 2014?

 

I still think you give Phegley another month in AAA to demonstrate this isn't just a hot streak. In the meantime, give Gimenez more starts and hope Flowers can rebound to some extent. If not, call up Phegley in late June or early July.

[oldsox]

Have there been any reports about exactly what Cooper was screaming at Flowers about tonight?

Or why Ventura stays quiet?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Service time would be a pretty surprising reason for holding Phegley back, since he wasn't close to being considered the catcher of the future until these first 2 months of 2013...

 

I don't think anyone in the organization was projecting him as a potential starting catcher at the major league level based on his health and what we'd seen so far.

 

That said, Flowers seems to be really struggling with the daily grind, and that's hard to understand at his age and with an entire off-season to prepare for the starting role, knowing AJ wasn't coming back.

 

It's also disappointing he's been suffering some aches and pains...like back spasms in the last week...without really playing at anywhere near the level of innings/pitches caught AJ averaged in his sleep even in his mid 30's.

 

 

Yes they are they do not want to make him a super 2 arbitration status.

 

 

Yeah, I can pretty much guarantee they aren't worried about service time and starting Phegley's arb clock

[Balta1701]

Personally, I can't wait until Phegley is actually called up, struggles for a week or so, and then people here declare that they can't stand his approach, they're done with him, he needs replaced, and they never want to see him again.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, I can pretty much guarantee they aren't worried about service time and starting Phegley's arb clock

 

 

I can see if it's Courtney Hawkins, or even one of your top 2-3 prospects that you build a franchise around.

 

If they really thought Phegley gave them a better chance to win now and were ready to give up on Tyler Flowers, then I'm 100% convinced they would make the move tomorrow.

 

The odds of Josh Phegley being the starting catcher for the White Sox in 5-6 years are about 2-3%, at best.

 

And the White Sox have never operated like the Marlins, with an eye more towards saving money than winning games in the current season.

 

It's the back-up quarterback syndrome. Even going back to some of the interesting debates (playing Viciedo mostly against LHP in 2010 instead of playing everyday, Lillibridge vs. Dunn in 2011, or Viciedo vs. Pierre), there's always been solid reasoning behind NOT making the moves that everyone wanted to see...if for no other reason than for the sake of change or seeing something different.

 

In retrospect, Ozzie might was arguably right about not prematurely anointing Gordon Beckham as the face of the franchise, as well. Sometimes we want to blame him for everything (looking back on him as the villain), but it's pretty hard to see things in that light when players like Brian Anderson never did a thing after they left the Sox.

 

Some at this site are equating Josh Phegley and his service clock with Wil Myers or Miguel Sano.

Edited May 28, 2013 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

Personally, I can't wait until Phegley is actually called up, struggles for a week or so, and then people here declare that they can't stand his approach, they're done with him, he needs replaced, and they never want to see him again.

 

There's value in making decisions quickly. You might get burned from time-to-time, but when it comes to non-core players I'm fine with making a mistake in the interest of time.

[Dick Allen]

Before someone spouts off about the possible disruption of the handling of the pitching staff, it should be known that the Sox are on pace to score less than 600 runs this year. Worrying about possible adverse affects to the pitching staff is the equivalent of yelling, "Fire, fire!" in Noah's flood.

That's true. It's kind of hard to win when you don't score at all. You need a forfeit.

[Balta1701]

There's value in making decisions quickly. You might get burned from time-to-time, but when it comes to non-core players I'm fine with making a mistake in the interest of time.

I love how the guy on this site who thinks that dismantling the team and going with a multi year youth movement has zero patience for trying to actually develop youth.

[caulfield12]

There's value in making decisions quickly. You might get burned from time-to-time, but when it comes to non-core players I'm fine with making a mistake in the interest of time.

 

 

Then, as we've seen with every Sox position prospect of the last decade...he falls flat on his face....what do you do?

 

Now you're REALLY in desperation mode. You can't tell opposing GM's, well, maybe I really don't need to trade for your veteran catcher...all my scouts are telling me Phegley's ready and 100% healthy.

 

If you go back to Flowers after basically saying he's not going to cut it, the odds of him turning it around and having the full faith and confidence of his teammates and coaching staff after that happens are about 10%.

 

The starting catcher is like the quarterback of the team. Once you put your faith in someone else, it's hard to go back to that guy because you didn't trust him enough to leave him as the starter in the first place.

Edited May 28, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I love how the guy on this site who thinks that dismantling the team and going with a multi year youth movement has zero patience for trying to actually develop youth.

 

 

Well, the way around that is to call someone "non-core."

 

Even though catcher is arguably one of the three most important positions on the team.

 

So, in other words, everyone in the line-up can/should be susceptible to benchings/trades except for Sale, Peavy, Quintana and maybe Santiago and Viciedo (there were many who wanted Dayan platooned or even traded last season, and I'm sure it will come up again if he struggles against RHP or power pitchers).

 

Unless you're also going to accept Rios and Peavy as the "core." Well, they ARE the heart of the current core, but they won't be part of the next playoff team, just like Konerko, Ramirez, Crain, etc.

Edited May 28, 2013 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Personally, I would have called Phegley up a week or 2 ago and let Gimenez go. Flowers has shown he's a good back up, and when he gets on a roll, can hit some homers. I can understand the White Sox wanting to give Flowers more time. It's not what I would do. It's not like he's a 23 year old just up from AA. Cooper was really chewing him out yesterday. It had to be pitch selection and/or location, but location with Jones pitching is something I find hard to be screaming at the catcher about. I also think ultimately pitch selection is on the pitcher.

 

Since then, Gimenez has done a decent job, although he does make the last out of an inning often and takes forever to put his gear on. Flowers is a streaky guy offensively. Even when he was struggling in he minors he would go on hitting binges. I suppose they want to give what they would think is a fair shot to Flowers. In the end, they do have a decent back up in him. He can be Peavy's personal catcher, and perhaps without the mental load of playing regularly, can get back to being decent defensively.

 

Currently the White Sox line up is featuring too many guys who are hitting so poorly, that drawing a walk is like hitting a 3 run homer. Flowers is one of them.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Dick Allen

[pettie4sox]

I don't know what people's beef with Gimenez is... in his limited at bats, he's driven in some big runs. Not to mention he saved runs from scoring and has throw out runners.. T-flo has won some games with his bat but he just seems clueless at the plate (he's probably also lost a lot of games 'K' ing with RISP not that he's the only culprit) Gimenez being a switch hitter helps as he'll always get the better look at pitchers.

[Marty34]

Yeah, I can pretty much guarantee they aren't worried about service time and starting Phegley's arb clock

 

Agreed. An organization that throws Santiago on three days rest after a bullpen could not give a damn about Josh Phegley's arbitration clock.

[Dick Allen]

I don't know what people's beef with Gimenez is... in his limited at bats, he's driven in some big runs. Not to mention he saved runs from scoring and has throw out runners.. T-flo has won some games with his bat but he just seems clueless at the plate (he's probably also lost a lot of games 'K' ing with RISP not that he's the only culprit) Gimenez being a switch hitter helps as he'll always get the better look at pitchers.

I don't have a beef, but he's not a starter and if you are getting rid of a catcher, I'd keep Flowers over him as a back up. He's younger and hits for more power. Losing Gimenez isn't going to cost the White Sox wins.

 

[cabiness42]

Where is Phegley?

 

The much less popular sequel to the Where's Waldo series.

[Marty34]

I love how the guy on this site who thinks that dismantling the team and going with a multi year youth movement has zero patience for trying to actually develop youth.

 

You win no trophies developing the Tyler Flowers and Nate Jones' of the world. Their either good when you need them or you move on.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Marty34

[pettie4sox]

I don't have a beef, but he's not a starter and if you are getting rid of a catcher, I'd keep Flowers over him as a back up. He's younger and hits for more power. Losing Gimenez isn't going to cost the White Sox wins.

 

If he makes good contact which is a rarity.

[elrockinMT]

It seems to me that Gimenez has done pretty good as a backup catcher. Saw him make some good plays at home plate when he blocked off runners. Hawk and Stone called it a lost art. Back up is the role Gimenez was signed to play. Funny how with some this conversation changed from Flowers being replaced by Phegley to dumping on Gimenez. I think it is too early to panic over Tyler Flowers bat and occassional defensive lapses. I wanted to see AJP back with the Sox but they went a different direction so let's give it a bit of a chance to see if Tyler can do the job.

[elrockinMT]

Personally, I can't wait until Phegley is actually called up, struggles for a week or so, and then people here declare that they can't stand his approach, they're done with him, he needs replaced, and they never want to see him again.

 

 

And you know it will happen. Too many live and die on a bad play or a bad game

[hogan873]

You win no trophies developing the Tyler Flowers and Nate Jones' of the world. Their either good when you need them or you move on.

So teams should never try to develop players, right? They should just go out and get players that can perform now, and never worry about the future. Sure, makes sense.

[Marty34]

So teams should never try to develop players, right? They should just go out and get players that can perform now, and never worry about the future. Sure, makes sense.

 

Guys like Flowers and Jones, aren't guys you wait on.

[Dick Allen]

Guys like Flowers and Jones, aren't guys you wait on.

Who currently do the Sox have that are worthy of "waiting on"? Provide some specifics.