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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 04:09 PM)
You think it's impossible to win a World Series next year with a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago? You honestly think there are no set of moves that Hahn could make to improve the offense enough to win a World Series?

And there is nothing you can say which will change his mind or make him explain why.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:09 PM)
You think it's impossible to win a World Series next year with a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago? You honestly think there are no set of moves that Hahn could make to improve the offense enough to win a World Series?

 

Yes. Impossible. Too many position holes not too mention Peavy being a year older.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:09 PM)
You think it's impossible to win a World Series next year with a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago? You honestly think there are no set of moves that Hahn could make to improve the offense enough to win a World Series?

 

 

It's fair to assume that it would be a serious, serious uphill climb of giant proportions to become WS-winner quality by start of next year. And it is smart GMing to see when your serious uphill climbs are happening, and when they arent

 

 

And acting in response to those realities.

 

 

Sure I'm open to deals..that make sense. Not just any. Because I also value being 'good.' I just dont value it above really outstanding on-the-moment asset attainment (were it available to me presently in offers from around the league)

Edited by Jose Paniagua
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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:09 PM)
You think it's impossible to win a World Series next year with a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago? You honestly think there are no set of moves that Hahn could make to improve the offense enough to win a World Series?

The Sox have about $20-30 million coming off the payroll and an additional $25 million to work with through the new TV package. It seems to me, some tinkering can be done.

 

The Sox have won one WS in our lifetimes. I always get a kick out of the impossible to win a WS with so and so or so and so won't be on the next WS team as a reason to get rid of them. Using that critieria, the Sox should have traded Frank Thomas after 1993 or 1994, because the amount of postseason series won with Frank on the active roster was 0. Carlton Fisk was a waste of money signing. Amount of postseason series wins with Fisk as a White Sox...0. Dick Allen was a bad trade. No postseason.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:15 PM)
The Sox have about $20-30 million coming off the payroll and an additional $25 million to work with through the new TV package. It seems to me, some tinkering can be done.

 

The Sox have won one WS in our lifetimes. I always get a kick out of the impossible to win a WS with so and so or so and so won't be on the next WS team as a reason to get rid of them. Using that critieria, the Sox should have traded Frank Thomas after 1993 or 1994, because the amount of postseason series won with Frank on the active roster was 0. Carlton Fisk was a waste of money signing. Amount of postseason series wins with Fisk as a White Sox...0. Dick Allen was a bad trade. No postseason.

 

 

How much money is that compared to the other teams in MLB?

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:21 PM)
How much money is that compared to the other teams in MLB?

Don't have the slightest idea. But the White Sox generally spend money the public knows is available. They will be able to bid with anyone on any player they choose. That doesn't happen often. They will have as much payroll flexibility has they have had in our lifetimes.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 09:09 PM)
You think it's impossible to win a World Series next year with a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago? You honestly think there are no set of moves that Hahn could make to improve the offense enough to win a World Series?

Ha

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The question isn't "Do we have the money?"

 

It's whether we can convince those guys like Morales, Granderson, Utley, McCann (the names we keep throwing out, and I'm sure there are 4-6 more) to sign with the Sox.

 

It seems that the answer revolves around the catching spot (there has to be major improvement/better leadership) and finding another bat to replace Konerko.

 

There's nothing we can really do about Dunn, besides hope he doesn't completely implode.

 

If we found those two players....we'd have a good chance of competing for a playoff spot. Not sure about pronouncing them a World Series team without knowing the health of our starting pitchers this time next year.

 

And we're either going to have to hope that guys like Webb and Santos Rodriguez are ready to pitch next season in the big leagues or it's going to be expensive to replace Thornton/Crain/Lindstrom....as KW learned on the Dotel/Linebrink deals.

 

So that's at least 3 major areas of need...can those spots be filled with that amount of money, assuming JR signs off on "go for it" in 2014.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:25 PM)
Don't have the slightest idea. But the White Sox generally spend money the public knows is available. They will be able to bid with anyone on any player they choose. That doesn't happen often. They will have as much payroll flexibility has they have had in our lifetimes.

 

I'll believe it when I see it....competing for a player who's going to get a $100+ million contract.

 

That said, it isn't the organizational approach of the White Sox, and unless they hit the nail on the button (the equivalent of Miguel Cabrera), then it's too dangerous.

 

That said, if you add Dunn and Danks together, they're in that $100 million category...just better to spread your risk, it's like buying a mutual fund vs. individual stocks. You limit your upside/ceiling return, but you also protect yourself from completely whiffing on a deal and bottoming out completely or going bankrupt or exposed to a margin call.

Edited by caulfield12
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I would not be so quick to be suggesting a Jake Peavy trade. I am actually surprised we only signed him for two years. Another one I might keep on the list is Floyd. It has been reported that pitchers, especially curve ball pitchers, come back stronger then before when they undergo Tommy John surgery.

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QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 28, 2013 -> 06:04 PM)
I would not be so quick to be suggesting a Jake Peavy trade. I am actually surprised we only signed him for two years. Another one I might keep on the list is Floyd. It has been reported that pitchers, especially curve ball pitchers, come back stronger then before when they undergo Tommy John surgery.

The problem with Floyd, if I recall what pt said, is that he's going to take a few extra months for recovery because of the nature of his specific injury, so mid-season next year might be a reasonable time for him to be pitching to live batters. He's also...not under contract for next year by anyone, so someone would have to sign him.

 

Depending on whether he really meant the stuff about how comfortable he was in Chicago (particularly with the pitching coach who probably saved his career), I could certainly see him signing a minor league deal with the Sox next year to do his rehab with the org and see if he might be ready to contribute in the 2nd half next year...but that's as far as we can say about him for now.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 10:19 PM)
Yet you proposed making him our starting shortstop.

 

Didn't marty simply said that if you're giving up on the season and trading Alexei/Peavy/Crain/Rios, then just put Keppinger at SS to finish out the year? That's not a crazy statement,even though he'd be a disaster at SS and I'm sure marty would be the first to admit that. Hell, I suggested putting Beckham at SS for a trial run if the trade scenario mentioned in the first sentence takes place, and this was before they put him at SS in AAA.

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One thing to keep in mind when trading someone because you don't think their value will ever be higher. It is a 2 way street. The guy you get may have inflated value as well. If someone here said the Sox could trade Peavy for the 2011 version of Jesus Montero, a lot of posters would think that was great. It would have turned out horribly. Casto and Molina are a couple of guys who have declined in value as well.

 

The value that is most important is the value to the White Sox, and as long as the Sox are trying to win, trading Peavy will most likely backfire.

 

Marty's best deal available may not be available for a year or 2.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:30 PM)
Didn't marty simply said that if you're giving up on the season and trading Alexei/Peavy/Crain/Rios, then just put Keppinger at SS to finish out the year? That's not a crazy statement,even though he'd be a disaster at SS and I'm sure marty would be the first to admit that. Hell, I suggested putting Beckham at SS for a trial run if the trade scenario mentioned in the first sentence takes place, and this was before they put him at SS in AAA.

If I had time, I'd go back and look for the exact quote, but IIRC he proposed releasing Alexei and playing Keppinger at SS. Win or lose, that ideas makes no sense IMO. Keppinger would be epically bad at SS and my guess is his frustrations would carry themselves into the batter's box. If you honestly think Kep is a stiff, then the idea should be to put him in position where he can succeed and potentially become tradable. That's not happening if you let him fail at SS on a regular basis. Also, if you plan on being bad, you might as well call up Carlos Sanchez and give him a shot at SS. Why waste innings on a guy who has 0% chance of being a long-term solution if you can attempt to develop a youngster?

 

As for Beckham, I agreed with your proposal. If he could prove to be even average at SS, in the event of a selloff/rebuilding, you would have a capable replacement for Alexei and would open up 2B which is a much easier position to fill. Maybe the chances of Beckham sticking at SS would be extremely low, but they have to better than Keppinger doing anything at the position.

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