Dunn?

[Texsox]

This year give him enough ABs to set some records.

[The Ginger Kid]

To me he makes the organization look like a joke. The longer they keep running him out there the worse it gets. I don't live in Chicago and regularly attend games, but I have to think his persistent failings and the inaction of the Sox is seeding deep frustration and resentment. I truly would rather see Dewayne Wise getting his ABs, and that's saying something.

[Harry Chappas]

Bat him 7th or 8th let look foolish and maybe he will retire. At a minimum be needs to platoon.

[Eminor3rd]

Team is bad. Dunn is one of 7-9 serious problems.

[elrockinMT]

Would be awesome if he had a .259 ba with the Sox. he would be a fan favorite for sure, if that were true. I still think he needs glasses.

 

 

I have been wondering this very thing. You hear of these things with good hitters going bad for some reason. Get your eyes checked for crying out loud. I just can't believe the man with the hitting history he has is this bad.

 

And I can't blame KW for this move. It looked great at the time and I am betting most of us were ecstatic about the signing. I do admire Dunn for the fact he sucks it up and keeps coming to the ball park everyday. He is trying to get it figured out and doesn't make excuses.

Edited June 2, 2013 by elrockinMT

[elrockinMT]

We should trade Dunn to the DBacks for proven workhorse Brandon McCarthy, only problem is that given Dunn's low value I don't think we can execute that move without including man-child Juan Silverio.

 

 

Was this post made 'tongue in cheek?' Mccarthy a work horse? Maybe, but only when he is healthy which ain't alot. He is back on the DL now

[TaylorStSox]

At least he's not BJ Upton. Every time I get mad about Dunn, I thank God we never went after Upton.

[greg775]

I have been wondering this very thing. You hear of these things with good hitters going bad for some reason. Get your eyes checked for crying out loud. I just can't believe the man with the hitting history he has is this bad.

 

And I can't blame KW for this move. It looked great at the time and I am betting most of us were ecstatic about the signing. I do admire Dunn for the fact he sucks it up and keeps coming to the ball park everyday. He is trying to get it figured out and doesn't make excuses.

 

Rockin how can you not blame KW for acquiring Dunn? That acquisition has pretty much ruined the past few seasons and next season as well.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Rockin how can you not blame KW for acquiring Dunn? That acquisition has pretty much ruined the past few seasons and next season as well.

Ozzie ruined 2012.

 

Dunn was worth his contract. You can choose to ignore his career stats up until signing with the White Sox if you like, but in the real world, players who achieve what Dunn achieved get those kinds of contracts. If the Sox didn't sign him someone else would have been saddled with his deal.

 

GMs, like anyone else on the planet, need to be evaluated based on what they were able to do with what they had to work with & with the information available at the time. You can't punish a GM for not being a psychic. Yes Dunn was a high K machine, but he was also in his prime, left-handed, an OBP machine, and a huge power threat. Kenny only gave him 4 years, which was probably the bare minimum he was going to get. IIRC the Tigers were also in on him & there were people saying Dunn would get 5 years. This was a good on-paper move that backfired, and the type of move any GM could make.

 

Take AA for instance, this guy was a genius 6 months ago & now he's garbage who needs to be ousted. Really? Did he completely lose all mental faculties over the last 6 months? Or did he make a couple moves that looked good on paper but turned to s*** on the field?

 

Blaming KW for Dunn is completely ridiculous.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Was this post made 'tongue in cheek?' Mccarthy a work horse? Maybe, but only when he is healthy which ain't alot. He is back on the DL now

Phil Rogers called Brandon McCarthy a proven workhorse & used that as his reason for bashing the Danks-for-McCarthy deal when it was made. He also called Juan Silverio a man-child. Phil Rogers came up so I mentioned that, because there's no better evidence of Phil Rogers' baseball knowledge than that McCarthy comment. BMac was a reliever when he was dealt who made several extremely key starts for us which helped us win a Championship. But he wasn't on the playoff roster & nothing he ever did in a Sox uniform made him anything close to a workhorse, or really even proven as a starting pitcher.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Team is bad. Dunn is one of 7-9 serious problems.

This, and long-term, Dunn isn't even hurting us. He's a sunk cost who is playing because we don't have anyone worthwhile to throw out there in place of him. Blaming Dunn is like the people who blamed Andy Gonzalez for 2007. He's garbage, but his contract is up pretty soon & it's not like he's taking PT away from someone who deserves to be out there.

 

Finish the job. We have the core, now finish building around it. This insistence on sticking with a group of players that clearly aren't good enough isn't helping. Tear this s*** up already.

[Balta1701]

This, and long-term, Dunn isn't even hurting us. He's a sunk cost who is playing because we don't have anyone worthwhile to throw out there in place of him. Blaming Dunn is like the people who blamed Andy Gonzalez for 2007. He's garbage, but his contract is up pretty soon & it's not like he's taking PT away from someone who deserves to be out there.

 

Finish the job. We have the core, now finish building around it. This insistence on sticking with a group of players that clearly aren't good enough isn't helping. Tear this s*** up already.

Andy Gonzalez wasn't dramatically overpaid though.

[kitekrazy]

Ozzie ruined 2012.

 

Dunn was worth his contract. You can choose to ignore his career stats up until signing with the White Sox if you like, but in the real world, players who achieve what Dunn achieved get those kinds of contracts. If the Sox didn't sign him someone else would have been saddled with his deal.

 

GMs, like anyone else on the planet, need to be evaluated based on what they were able to do with what they had to work with & with the information available at the time. You can't punish a GM for not being a psychic. Yes Dunn was a high K machine, but he was also in his prime, left-handed, an OBP machine, and a huge power threat. Kenny only gave him 4 years, which was probably the bare minimum he was going to get. IIRC the Tigers were also in on him & there were people saying Dunn would get 5 years. This was a good on-paper move that backfired, and the type of move any GM could make.

 

Take AA for instance, this guy was a genius 6 months ago & now he's garbage who needs to be ousted. Really? Did he completely lose all mental faculties over the last 6 months? Or did he make a couple moves that looked good on paper but turned to s*** on the field?

 

Blaming KW for Dunn is completely ridiculous.

 

Oh I don't know. There were fans who didn't agree with the signing. Isn't he usually the type of guy Kenny likes to get? No versatility on the bases and the field. I guess NL stats don't automatically convert to AL stats.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Oh I don't know. There were fans who didn't agree with the signing. Isn't he usually the type of guy Kenny likes to get? No versatility on the bases and the field. I guess NL stats don't automatically convert to AL stats.

I think there was one fan here who famously didn't like the move. Almost all of us really liked it because we were in what we thought was a legitimate playoff window & Dunn's track record spoke for itself. We needed that lefty middle of the order bat and we signed what we thought was a lefty middle of the order bat. None of us were wrong for thinking what we thought at the time, nor was Kenny/the organization in the wrong for making the deal, nor was Dunn not worth the money & years at the time. Good move on paper, absolutely horrific results. Dollar for dollar, all-around game considered, lack of insurance money back, etc. his was the worst Sox contract since....? Can't remember. Just horrible, but that's life sometimes.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Andy Gonzalez wasn't dramatically overpaid though.

True. But still, it's not like Dunn's blocking anyone we know about, although it is possible that his contract is blocking us from taking on the contract of another veteran player who would come at a fair price should we be in position to absorb the cash.

 

[greg775]

Ozzie ruined 2012.

 

Dunn was worth his contract. You can choose to ignore his career stats up until signing with the White Sox if you like, but in the real world, players who achieve what Dunn achieved get those kinds of contracts. If the Sox didn't sign him someone else would have been saddled with his deal.

 

GMs, like anyone else on the planet, need to be evaluated based on what they were able to do with what they had to work with & with the information available at the time. You can't punish a GM for not being a psychic. Yes Dunn was a high K machine, but he was also in his prime, left-handed, an OBP machine, and a huge power threat. Kenny only gave him 4 years, which was probably the bare minimum he was going to get. IIRC the Tigers were also in on him & there were people saying Dunn would get 5 years. This was a good on-paper move that backfired, and the type of move any GM could make.

 

Take AA for instance, this guy was a genius 6 months ago & now he's garbage who needs to be ousted. Really? Did he completely lose all mental faculties over the last 6 months? Or did he make a couple moves that looked good on paper but turned to s*** on the field?

 

Blaming KW for Dunn is completely ridiculous.

 

I think your last line is completely ridiculous. If you or I made such a decision in the business world, no matter how "logical" it seemed to be at the time, we'd be so fired, so long ago. It's results that matter. Kevin Pritchard chose Oden over Durant. He did so for logical reasons. Look up all the articles before that draft and just about everybody said he had to take Oden. And it cost Pritchard his job.

KW flopped in taking on Dunn. It's pretty much ruined our team cause of that huge contract and also the buzzkill he brings to the squad on a daily basis.

[hogan873]

I think your last line is completely ridiculous. If you or I made such a decision in the business world, no matter how "logical" it seemed to be at the time, we'd be so fired, so long ago. It's results that matter. Kevin Pritchard chose Oden over Durant. He did so for logical reasons. Look up all the articles before that draft and just about everybody said he had to take Oden. And it cost Pritchard his job.

KW flopped in taking on Dunn. It's pretty much ruined our team cause of that huge contract and also the buzzkill he brings to the squad on a daily basis.

In the real world, it would be Dunn who would be fired. Unfortunately, baseball isn't the real world. When KW signed Dunn it looked like a good deal because of Dunn's history. No one, not even Dunn himself, could have foreseen what a disaster he's been. There are plenty of bad deals made in baseball. The Dunn signing looks really bad because of his performance in 2 of the 3 years of his contract so far. Blame KW all you want, but it comes down to Dunn. He's at fault because he can't hit a baseball anymore.

[LittleHurt05]

KW gets blame for the Dunn signing, because he let Ozzie run the asylum. There was zero reason that Mark Kotsay should have been an everyday player, yet KW let Ozzie make the decision. In turn, the Sox didn't keep Thome, who killed them in Minnesota, and they panicked in need for a slugging lefty in the middle of the order and signed Dunn.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

KW gets blame for the Dunn signing, because he let Ozzie run the asylum. There was zero reason that Mark Kotsay should have been an everyday player, yet KW let Ozzie make the decision. In turn, the Sox didn't keep Thome, who killed them in Minnesota, and they panicked in need for a slugging lefty in the middle of the order and signed Dunn.

This is the truth. Thome was willing to play 2010 for peanuts. Ozzie didn't want a DH. Thome has a huge year in Minnesota, the next year the Sox need a DH, they sign Dunn. If they had kept Thome, they would have re-signed him assuming he was anywhere near as effective as he was with the Twins, and Dunn goes elsewhere.

 

There were red flags with Dunn when he was signed. He was pretty bad the second half of 2010. There was, however, nothing that would suggest he would have been as bad as he's been. I'm sure there were teams that stayed away because they thought he was going to fall off, but this much? No way.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Eminor3rd]

Yeah, it's important to note how little money we have in long-term commitments. After 2014, it's Sale and Danks and nothing else. Peavy and Rios will likely be traded either this deadline or next. Konerko likely retires, leaving us to sit through one more year of Dunn as the primary first baseman. That's possibly also a transitional period for Viciedo -- we have a bunch of OF that need to break into the Majors and no plausible long-term replacement for Konerko/Dunn at first.

 

But this is why we're in a much better position than the Astros and Cubs have been -- we don;t have any work to do to clear out roster flexibility. This current group we can call Kenny's Final All-in is already almost done. KW can take the blame for not winning this time around, but he needs some major credit for not crippling the franchise in the process.

[Steve9347]

When does DFA become a real option?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

When does DFA become a real option?

 

I'd seriously consider it at the end of this month at this point

[caulfield12]

Yeah, it's important to note how little money we have in long-term commitments. After 2014, it's Sale and Danks and nothing else. Peavy and Rios will likely be traded either this deadline or next. Konerko likely retires, leaving us to sit through one more year of Dunn as the primary first baseman. That's possibly also a transitional period for Viciedo -- we have a bunch of OF that need to break into the Majors and no plausible long-term replacement for Konerko/Dunn at first.

 

But this is why we're in a much better position than the Astros and Cubs have been -- we don;t have any work to do to clear out roster flexibility. This current group we can call Kenny's Final All-in is already almost done. KW can take the blame for not winning this time around, but he needs some major credit for not crippling the franchise in the process.

 

 

 

Except Dunn and Danks are still looming over our future VERY MUCH the next 1 1/2 years.

 

Looking around the rest of the AL Central, there isn't a single contract worse than Dunn's or one riskier than Danks, although I'm sure Verlander, Mauer and Fielder will draw some arguments.

 

KW also left the farm system in much worse shape than when he became a GM.

 

The question is how much further we need to fall before there's light at the end of the tunnel?

 

There are also legitimate concerns about Alexei Ramirez's contract, maybe not this season, but in the next couple of years. Not to mention Viciedo's worrisome OPS against RHP and the future of the catching position.

 

We can get rid of Beckham and Flowers and DeAza, but then we still have to replace them, and none of those candidates exist inside our system AND are ready to make an impact in the next 2-3-4 months.

 

 

Finally, we're left with pretty much no assets to trade that won't cripple this year's team...except for maybe Erik Johnson.

 

So not sure if lucky would be the word I would use...having had to discount tickets this year to get roughly the same amount of attendance and inevitably behind last year's tv ratings as well.

 

Another season like 2011 isn't going to be fun for anyone.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Except Dunn and Danks are still looming over our future VERY MUCH the next 1 1/2 years.

 

Looking around the rest of the AL Central, there isn't a single contract worse than Dunn's or one riskier than Danks, although I'm sure Verlander, Mauer and Fielder will draw some arguments.

 

KW also left the farm system in much worse shape than when he became a GM.

 

The question is how much further we need to fall before there's light at the end of the tunnel?

 

There are also legitimate concerns about Alexei Ramirez's contract, maybe not this season, but in the next couple of years. Not to mention Viciedo's worrisome OPS against RHP and the future of the catching position.

 

We can get rid of Beckham and Flowers and DeAza, but then we still have to replace them, and none of those candidates exist inside our system AND are ready to make an impact in the next 2-3-4 months.

 

 

Finally, we're left with pretty much no assets to trade that won't cripple this year's team...except for maybe Erik Johnson.

 

So not sure if lucky would be the word I would use...having had to discount tickets this year to get roughly the same amount of attendance and inevitably behind last year's tv ratings as well.

 

Another season like 2011 isn't going to be fun for anyone.

 

Kenny left the system worse than when he inherited it. Kenny Williams also built a World Series champion and there is a banner hanging signifying it. The overall job probably was not good enough but I did get to see my favorite baseball team win a championship in my lifetime and KW is responsible for that.

 

[Eminor3rd]

When does DFA become a real option?

 

When someone else demands his playing time.