Automobile Thread

[RockRaines]

The pilot is the car that literally every family buys, I am not crazy about the redesign since it looks more like the absolutely s***ty CRV but people swear by it. My sis and my SIL both drive a pilot.

[Chisoxfn]

The pilot is the car that literally every family buys, I am not crazy about the redesign since it looks more like the absolutely s***ty CRV but people swear by it. My sis and my SIL both drive a pilot.

My 2005 was awesome (stupid car that rear ended it). Styling wise I like the new Highlander more than the Pilot, but the features of the Pilot / tech are just fantastic. Although the whole touch screen everything would drive me up a f***ing wall. They are getting too cute...everyone knows nobs for volume work better than a touch screen for volume control.

[RockRaines]

My 2005 was awesome (stupid car that rear ended it). Styling wise I like the new Highlander more than the Pilot, but the features of the Pilot / tech are just fantastic. Although the whole touch screen everything would drive me up a f***ing wall. They are getting too cute...everyone knows nobs for volume work better than a touch screen for volume control.

Oh no they didnt do that did they? One of the only things that annoys me about my jeep tech is the heated/cooled seats and steering wheel are two taps into the touch screen. I would rather have buttons for that.

[Chisoxfn]

Oh no they didnt do that did they? One of the only things that annoys me about my jeep tech is the heated/cooled seats and steering wheel are two taps into the touch screen. I would rather have buttons for that.

They did. Whole thing is a gigantic touch screen. Obviously steering wheel has volume controls (so that helps), but I'm really not a big fan of touch screens in cars. Buttons are just so much easier and less distracting (cause you can use feel and thus not take your eyes off the road).

[RockRaines]

They did. Whole thing is a gigantic touch screen. Obviously steering wheel has volume controls (so that helps), but I'm really not a big fan of touch screens in cars. Buttons are just so much easier and less distracting (cause you can use feel and thus not take your eyes off the road).

people criticize BWM for having a bunch of buttons and the knob thing, but its so much more efficient to hit a button. And touch screens run on software that is very prone to freezing. Ive had to hard restart mine several times.

[StrangeSox]

The flip side of that is something like my wife's Ford Fusion, which seems to have a separate button for every function and a big touchscreen.

 

 

Why are "map," "nav," and "dest" separate buttons?!

[Chisoxfn]

Welp...should be picking up the car on Saturday (pending some surprise...which in the car business is always possible). Love the online method of gathering quotes, than finding lower prices and than making up lowest prices and circling the wagon until finally figuring out who will move lower and lower until you get the lowest process. Thanks to online, you can do it all pretty quick as well. Ended up getting it about 1K lower than the lowest TrueCar offer (after going through the full exercise). Plus got some free services thrown in.

 

A little more than 7K under MSRP ain't too shabby for a 2016 (thank you low gas prices for helping in those efforts).

[RockRaines]

Can you illuminate us on the process you went through? I think that would be a valuable asset.

[bigruss]

If you want fuel efficiency in an SUV, there is (or was anyway) a Highlander Hybrid, but the differential cost is huge. It was like 8k or something ridiculous. I've been salivating over the Lexus NX hybrid SUV, but it's not cheap either (comparable price to a Highlander, and more luxurious and more efficient, but much smaller). Hard to find an SUV with truly good fuel efficiency that is relatively inexpensive. I wish they still made the Escape Hybrids, was kind of mad Ford dropped those.

I'm all over the NX and Audi Q3, but man they are pricey at this point (and the Mercedes GLA250 is impressive as well just not enough util space).

[Chisoxfn]

Can you illuminate us on the process you went through? I think that would be a valuable asset.

Welp...picked up the car on Saturday (exactly as negotiated and thankfully extremely hassle free). So this time was a little different, since my other car wasn't operable, I didn't get to do my usual longer process to purchase (I enjoy going to auto shows, etc, to research all the different vehicles I'm deciding on and than ultimately conclude on what I'm going to pick). My first starting point was reading the various write-ups, looking at specs, going through the online brochures, etc. Understand pro's and con's of vehicles (roominess, turning radius, horsepower, MPG, etc). From there I than go to the various dealers based upon my write-ups, having came up with a prioritization based upon what I've seen, although my view is to go into the whole process with an open mind...in fact, when I started this process (before online research) I'd have pretty much guaranteed anyone I would have went with a 2016 Pilot EX-L with sensing or Highlander XLE.

 

When I go to the dealer, I told every salesperson that came near me that I am looking at the cars, doing my research, and am not buying anything today under any circumstances. Helps ensure there guard is down and you can just enjoy looking at the cars, taking cars you want on a test drive, etc. Now given I'm not buying that day, I also tell salesman to help someone else if it is a potential buyer and ask them to open up some cars and really let me wander around. Than I take the cars on test drives, etc. Usually in this process, I'll ask the sales people questions, really to figure out if they know anything about the vehicle at all. If they pass my initial test questions (i.e., answer them truthfully), than I'll have them dig in and ask them other questions (as they have passed my smell test). From there I've usually narrowed things down, but want to sit on things for a little bit just to ensure that I'm 100% on my decision or have at least gotten to where it is one of a few cars.

 

At that point, I focus on price to see what the various cars go for. I leveraged truecar and carguru to give me solid "ballpark" estimates of the actual price you'd pay for the vehicle and in this case, my finalist were three options...Pilot, Highlander or Sonata Hybrid. Absolutely loved all three vehicles (Note: My wife disallowed me from considering a minivan....too young for one...blah blah blah). Given our other vehicle is a 2012 Highlander, we had flexibility to go with a car and I happen to do a lot of city driving and have always though a hybrid might be fun (i.e., trying to get the best possible gas mileage during my daily commute gives me something to at least enjoy while sitting in bumper to bumper), but could never get the pricing to make financial sense. Anyway, given the difference between Sonata and the SUV's, I finally decided 100% to go with the car. Ultimately decided I'd rather save the cash for kids 529 or our next house downpayment.

 

Now lets discuss actual pricing process. So I did a 4 process plan, 3 of which are extremely easy. I used Costco, TrueCar, and CarGuru to select the specific vehicle and put me in contact with select dealers in the network, who would than give me there initial pricing (knowing that TrueCar had rough data on what cars had sold for in my area, etc, esssentially giving me my ceiling...meaning I would never pay more than those prices). From there, I also contacted other dealers in the area (going to there websites and requesting quotes from there internet / fleet people). This all was done in a matter of an hour while watching the 1st round of the NFL playoffs from my couch. Over the next day or two, calls and emails would come. None of which I answered. I waited till I had the data (roughly 10 dealers or so) and than once I had the pricing, I gave each one of them a call up, indicated I was gathering pricing, finding out specifics (any differences in the car, hidden fees, exact options / packages, to make sure i had apple to apple basis).

 

As I went through the process, I worked from the highest priced dealers to the lowest priced ones, telling the highest price dealers that they were much higher than my other offers . Some of them claimed other dealers were liars, but I gave each of them my simple pitch, every dealer I've asked, I told them my plan was to finalize my purchase price and pick up the car in a week, but if it didn't work and I didn't get my price, I had time (letting them know I'm a real customer and can be converted, but, don't think I don't have options). I also told them if anything differs one iota from what we discussed when I come in to buy, I'll immediately leave and put up a negative review on your yelp page. During this process, a few dealers that were fraudsters, you could tell, they'd waver, try to force you in, and I'd just tell them no, I'm not and for those dealers, I knew I was ultimately going to stay away, but to the extent they gave me better prices I leveraged them. I should point out, along the way, I always haircut what my lowest price was so that every dealer I called during my initial process got a slightly lower offer than my real offer.

 

After the initial round, I had a pretty good idea of pricing and already knew a rough target price (thanks to TrueCar's data). From there, I waited another day or day and a half (as they were all calling back..again, let the initial calls sit) and than called back saying I was busy at work (which was true) and went through another round or two of discussing back and forth and narrowing price. I also had asked dealers what other benefits they had / could offer (free services, etc). At some point, once I got to where no dealer was moving or only one dealer would go (and they stopped trying to beta a price or refused), I knew I had hit my point and then figured I could at least get some free services out of the deal as well.

 

I than had my preferred dealer the whole time (and I had told him he was that) and thankfully they beat the lowest price I had and after beating, no one else would touch the price (finally one company matched but I didn't care...once you get to where no other dealers are going there, you figure you have done pretty good). From a finance perspective, can't provide much feedback here, I despise the finance people like the plague (so much worse than salesmen) but I wasn't financing so I could give two craps. They gave there song and dance about the warranty and I wasn't interested (you can buy after, so if you want a warranty, don't do it when you are in the room, you can search the car forums and find a dealer who sells the factory extended warranties for practically cost). They also lied about the warranty and I called them on it. (like I said, in general, in the 5 or 6 times I've bought a car in my life, I've never not been lied to by the finance person....its disgusting how they try to screw people who don't understand how credit works or any of this thing works).

 

Anyway, that was my process. If it seems like a lot of work, I honestly don't think I spent more than 2-3 hours (spread out over time...internet helps so much) from a pure negotiation perspective and a lot of it was while watching football. All the rest of my time was researching / checking out cars, which I enjoy. And at all points, I had the upper hand in the process and was never backed in a corner. Key concepts (while are fairly obvious), know what you want going in, understand what the right price is, and get multiple offers. Never buy on the spot without having done your diligence. You should also make sure you understand what incentives are out there (rebates, etc, as you want to make sure you get every penny you can get...also know the incentive expiration dates). Also, make sure you negotiate the price and you don't let anyone run your credit prior to reaching a total agreement (if you are financing, you know your credit situation going into things....they want to back you in that corner and run your credit for everything...but none of that crap is necessary...obviously you aren't going to quality for 1% interest if you have a 400 fico score, but if you have strong credit, you'll get whatever the best credit is and you should understand what your credit union is offering, etc, so you have a concept). Ended up paying about 24K for a car with an MSRP of 31,120.

 

Oh and again, never go in and negotiate by monthly payment. You need to already know what you can afford, but if you go in and are focused on monthly payment, you are a hosed. The payment is just math, you focus on the cost of the vehicle. And if you lease, again, you focus on the cost of the vehicle and the money factor.

 

As far as the car, given I was coming from driving the Highlander (and the Pilot before that), it has been a slight adjustment, but it drives really nice, is super quiet, and is very roomy. The whole hybrid thing is fun. I used to be into fast cars, but eventually decided those were worthless, cause you can't actually use the speed (unless you take it to the track), but the whole fuel efficient is kind of fun, cause you can actually try and drive and test your limits (all while helping your bottom line) and actually do that on the road. We'll see how long that lasts. Hopefully the car lasts a long time as my MO is to buy and own for a while (expect to hold onto this for 10+ years). My kid are lucky as it probably won't be quite old enough for them, that they'll probably end up with whatever we replace our Highlander with in 4 or 5 years. Over the next 4 or 5 years, instead of making a car payment, I just pay myself the funds, which are set aside for our next car.

[shipps]

Gage that is one elaborate strategy to car buying. LOL

 

My wife is the same way though. I get so annoyed in the process that I will usually not buy anything. I don't like salespeople and I always feel like I am being hosed no matter what.

 

Glad you got yourself a nice ride at a good price.

[Chisoxfn]

Gage that is one elaborate strategy to car buying. LOL

 

My wife is the same way though. I get so annoyed in the process that I will usually not buy anything. I don't like salespeople and I always feel like I am being hosed no matter what.

 

Glad you got yourself a nice ride at a good price.

Ultimately it is really simple.

 

Step 1: Research (Do your homework and educate yourself in the process)

Step 2: Narrow done choices

Step 3: Finalize choice (or choices is if it is price dependent) and understand exact packages you want

Step 4: Use internet to get lots of dealers in contact with you

Step 5: Leverage those dealers amongst each other to grind them down on pricing

Step 6: Finalize price and set-up appointment to walk in and buy car (literally a no hassle experience...was done with my paperwork in less than half an hour and the car was detailed out that morning).

[Jenksismyhero]

So how much did you save off the TrueCar estimate?

 

edit: NM, see that in your prior post.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Jenksismybitch

[Chisoxfn]

So how much did you save off the TrueCar estimate?

 

edit: NM, see that in your prior post.

So from the true-car / costo / car guru estimate, ended up move them down close to an extra thousand (and my actual price paid was lower than the furthest recorded sale range that they had in there database for my area). I was actually surprised that the costco price was the cheapest starting point of the three. Theoretically, if someone didn't want to spend the time, just using the car services gets you pretty darn close already.

[bigruss]

So from the true-car / costo / car guru estimate, ended up move them down close to an extra thousand (and my actual price paid was lower than the furthest recorded sale range that they had in there database for my area). I was actually surprised that the costco price was the cheapest starting point of the three. Theoretically, if someone didn't want to spend the time, just using the car services gets you pretty darn close already.

You went pretty close through the process I used, but it's good to know that services like Costco get pretty close to it, for less hassle it sounds like you can get a good deal still.

[Chisoxfn]

The real question I have is, are there people that actually go in and just buy the car and don't do much negotiating? The fleet mgr that sold me my car did have an interesting story. When I told him I wasn't financing and was going to pay for it, he asked me over the phone are you going to bring cash and I'm like no, I'll just write a check. So when I went there I asked him, do people really show up with 20+ grand in cash in a suitcase (vs. just writing a check) and he told me about a guy who came in a year ago with a briefcase full of 160K to buy 6 new cars for his family. He wanted it to be a surprise and had to make sure that the total of all 6 cars added up to that amount. Fleet mgr said him and his team were at the dealer until like 3 AM counting the cash (as they aren't a bank so they aren't really equipped to do it). Guy was coming back from doing independent contractor work for the government in Iraq or something like that.

[bigruss]

The real question I have is, are there people that actually go in and just buy the car and don't do much negotiating?

Yes there are, I've known people who do this. Blows my mind.

[iamshack]

Jesus Gage!

 

I love negotiating as much as the next guy, but I want the dealer to be able to feed his kids too

 

Anyways, good stuff. I'll keep that for reference.

[Jenksismyhero]

So from the true-car / costo / car guru estimate, ended up move them down close to an extra thousand (and my actual price paid was lower than the furthest recorded sale range that they had in there database for my area). I was actually surprised that the costco price was the cheapest starting point of the three. Theoretically, if someone didn't want to spend the time, just using the car services gets you pretty darn close already.

 

Good to know.

 

The only time I bought a new car I was able to get the dealer cost of the car from a friend of a friend, so when I went to the dealership I was just honest with the guy and told him this is what i'm going to pay, can you do it, if not i'm going to the next dealer. He kept telling me it was impossible and that I didn't qualify for certain rebates. I said ok thanks anyway and started to walk away. Then of course he caved and I got it for that price.

 

I hate the whole process. It's stupid that car dealerships can't be more like a retail store. I know the price of the fridge, why the need to negotiate? I can maybe sort of understand it if it's for a used car, but not new ones. And especially since the dealers are buying those straight from the manufacturer with manufacturer rebates and financing. They're literally just holding the car for days or weeks until they can sell it.

 

That's why I like the idea of carmax. No haggle pricing. Anyone ever go there? I wonder how much they jack up the price. If it's like 500 bucks more, it's worth it to me to not have to waste my time calling around and negotiating.

[RockRaines]

The real question I have is, are there people that actually go in and just buy the car and don't do much negotiating? The fleet mgr that sold me my car did have an interesting story. When I told him I wasn't financing and was going to pay for it, he asked me over the phone are you going to bring cash and I'm like no, I'll just write a check. So when I went there I asked him, do people really show up with 20+ grand in cash in a suitcase (vs. just writing a check) and he told me about a guy who came in a year ago with a briefcase full of 160K to buy 6 new cars for his family. He wanted it to be a surprise and had to make sure that the total of all 6 cars added up to that amount. Fleet mgr said him and his team were at the dealer until like 3 AM counting the cash (as they aren't a bank so they aren't really equipped to do it). Guy was coming back from doing independent contractor work for the government in Iraq or something like that.

Some just go in, say here is my payment, match it and thats it.

 

I know the guy who owns the dealerships as a friend so I skip almost all the researching and negotiating. The finance people still suck though.

[RockRaines]

Good to know.

 

The only time I bought a new car I was able to get the dealer cost of the car from a friend of a friend, so when I went to the dealership I was just honest with the guy and told him this is what i'm going to pay, can you do it, if not i'm going to the next dealer. He kept telling me it was impossible and that I didn't qualify for certain rebates. I said ok thanks anyway and started to walk away. Then of course he caved and I got it for that price.

 

I hate the whole process. It's stupid that car dealerships can't be more like a retail store. I know the price of the fridge, why the need to negotiate? I can maybe sort of understand it if it's for a used car, but not new ones. And especially since the dealers are buying those straight from the manufacturer with manufacturer rebates and financing. They're literally just holding the car for days or weeks until they can sell it.

 

That's why I like the idea of carmax. No haggle pricing. Anyone ever go there? I wonder how much they jack up the price. If it's like 500 bucks more, it's worth it to me to not have to waste my time calling around and negotiating.

Carmax makes a nice percentage on their cars being that they are used and they dont "negotiate".

[StrangeSox]

Welp...picked up the car on Saturday (exactly as negotiated and thankfully extremely hassle free). So this time was a little different, since my other car wasn't operable, I didn't get to do my usual longer process to purchase (I enjoy going to auto shows, etc, to research all the different vehicles I'm deciding on and than ultimately conclude on what I'm going to pick). My first starting point was reading the various write-ups, looking at specs, going through the online brochures, etc. Understand pro's and con's of vehicles (roominess, turning radius, horsepower, MPG, etc). From there I than go to the various dealers based upon my write-ups, having came up with a prioritization based upon what I've seen, although my view is to go into the whole process with an open mind...in fact, when I started this process (before online research) I'd have pretty much guaranteed anyone I would have went with a 2016 Pilot EX-L with sensing or Highlander XLE.

 

When I go to the dealer, I told every salesperson that came near me that I am looking at the cars, doing my research, and am not buying anything today under any circumstances. Helps ensure there guard is down and you can just enjoy looking at the cars, taking cars you want on a test drive, etc. Now given I'm not buying that day, I also tell salesman to help someone else if it is a potential buyer and ask them to open up some cars and really let me wander around. Than I take the cars on test drives, etc. Usually in this process, I'll ask the sales people questions, really to figure out if they know anything about the vehicle at all. If they pass my initial test questions (i.e., answer them truthfully), than I'll have them dig in and ask them other questions (as they have passed my smell test). From there I've usually narrowed things down, but want to sit on things for a little bit just to ensure that I'm 100% on my decision or have at least gotten to where it is one of a few cars.

 

At that point, I focus on price to see what the various cars go for. I leveraged truecar and carguru to give me solid "ballpark" estimates of the actual price you'd pay for the vehicle and in this case, my finalist were three options...Pilot, Highlander or Sonata Hybrid. Absolutely loved all three vehicles (Note: My wife disallowed me from considering a minivan....too young for one...blah blah blah). Given our other vehicle is a 2012 Highlander, we had flexibility to go with a car and I happen to do a lot of city driving and have always though a hybrid might be fun (i.e., trying to get the best possible gas mileage during my daily commute gives me something to at least enjoy while sitting in bumper to bumper), but could never get the pricing to make financial sense. Anyway, given the difference between Sonata and the SUV's, I finally decided 100% to go with the car. Ultimately decided I'd rather save the cash for kids 529 or our next house downpayment.

 

Now lets discuss actual pricing process. So I did a 4 process plan, 3 of which are extremely easy. I used Costco, TrueCar, and CarGuru to select the specific vehicle and put me in contact with select dealers in the network, who would than give me there initial pricing (knowing that TrueCar had rough data on what cars had sold for in my area, etc, esssentially giving me my ceiling...meaning I would never pay more than those prices). From there, I also contacted other dealers in the area (going to there websites and requesting quotes from there internet / fleet people). This all was done in a matter of an hour while watching the 1st round of the NFL playoffs from my couch. Over the next day or two, calls and emails would come. None of which I answered. I waited till I had the data (roughly 10 dealers or so) and than once I had the pricing, I gave each one of them a call up, indicated I was gathering pricing, finding out specifics (any differences in the car, hidden fees, exact options / packages, to make sure i had apple to apple basis).

 

As I went through the process, I worked from the highest priced dealers to the lowest priced ones, telling the highest price dealers that they were much higher than my other offers . Some of them claimed other dealers were liars, but I gave each of them my simple pitch, every dealer I've asked, I told them my plan was to finalize my purchase price and pick up the car in a week, but if it didn't work and I didn't get my price, I had time (letting them know I'm a real customer and can be converted, but, don't think I don't have options). I also told them if anything differs one iota from what we discussed when I come in to buy, I'll immediately leave and put up a negative review on your yelp page. During this process, a few dealers that were fraudsters, you could tell, they'd waver, try to force you in, and I'd just tell them no, I'm not and for those dealers, I knew I was ultimately going to stay away, but to the extent they gave me better prices I leveraged them. I should point out, along the way, I always haircut what my lowest price was so that every dealer I called during my initial process got a slightly lower offer than my real offer.

 

After the initial round, I had a pretty good idea of pricing and already knew a rough target price (thanks to TrueCar's data). From there, I waited another day or day and a half (as they were all calling back..again, let the initial calls sit) and than called back saying I was busy at work (which was true) and went through another round or two of discussing back and forth and narrowing price. I also had asked dealers what other benefits they had / could offer (free services, etc). At some point, once I got to where no dealer was moving or only one dealer would go (and they stopped trying to beta a price or refused), I knew I had hit my point and then figured I could at least get some free services out of the deal as well.

 

I than had my preferred dealer the whole time (and I had told him he was that) and thankfully they beat the lowest price I had and after beating, no one else would touch the price (finally one company matched but I didn't care...once you get to where no other dealers are going there, you figure you have done pretty good). From a finance perspective, can't provide much feedback here, I despise the finance people like the plague (so much worse than salesmen) but I wasn't financing so I could give two craps. They gave there song and dance about the warranty and I wasn't interested (you can buy after, so if you want a warranty, don't do it when you are in the room, you can search the car forums and find a dealer who sells the factory extended warranties for practically cost). They also lied about the warranty and I called them on it. (like I said, in general, in the 5 or 6 times I've bought a car in my life, I've never not been lied to by the finance person....its disgusting how they try to screw people who don't understand how credit works or any of this thing works).

 

Anyway, that was my process. If it seems like a lot of work, I honestly don't think I spent more than 2-3 hours (spread out over time...internet helps so much) from a pure negotiation perspective and a lot of it was while watching football. All the rest of my time was researching / checking out cars, which I enjoy. And at all points, I had the upper hand in the process and was never backed in a corner. Key concepts (while are fairly obvious), know what you want going in, understand what the right price is, and get multiple offers. Never buy on the spot without having done your diligence. You should also make sure you understand what incentives are out there (rebates, etc, as you want to make sure you get every penny you can get...also know the incentive expiration dates). Also, make sure you negotiate the price and you don't let anyone run your credit prior to reaching a total agreement (if you are financing, you know your credit situation going into things....they want to back you in that corner and run your credit for everything...but none of that crap is necessary...obviously you aren't going to quality for 1% interest if you have a 400 fico score, but if you have strong credit, you'll get whatever the best credit is and you should understand what your credit union is offering, etc, so you have a concept). Ended up paying about 24K for a car with an MSRP of 31,120.

 

Oh and again, never go in and negotiate by monthly payment. You need to already know what you can afford, but if you go in and are focused on monthly payment, you are a hosed. The payment is just math, you focus on the cost of the vehicle. And if you lease, again, you focus on the cost of the vehicle and the money factor.

 

As far as the car, given I was coming from driving the Highlander (and the Pilot before that), it has been a slight adjustment, but it drives really nice, is super quiet, and is very roomy. The whole hybrid thing is fun. I used to be into fast cars, but eventually decided those were worthless, cause you can't actually use the speed (unless you take it to the track), but the whole fuel efficient is kind of fun, cause you can actually try and drive and test your limits (all while helping your bottom line) and actually do that on the road. We'll see how long that lasts. Hopefully the car lasts a long time as my MO is to buy and own for a while (expect to hold onto this for 10+ years). My kid are lucky as it probably won't be quite old enough for them, that they'll probably end up with whatever we replace our Highlander with in 4 or 5 years. Over the next 4 or 5 years, instead of making a car payment, I just pay myself the funds, which are set aside for our next car.

 

Ugh why does buying a car have to be so awful.

[iamshack]

Carmax makes a nice percentage on their cars being that they are used and they dont "negotiate".

Yeah, I look at this from the opposite perspective.

 

I WISH I could negotiate the price of everything.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, I look at this from the opposite perspective.

 

I WISH I could negotiate the price of everything.

My little brother tries this. It doesn't work always, but he does have success sometimes and as he says, "what's the harm in asking? the worst they do is say 'no.'"

[Chisoxfn]

My little brother tries this. It doesn't work always, but he does have success sometimes and as he says, "what's the harm in asking? the worst they do is say 'no.'"

Yeah - depending on what I'm buying, I'll still just negotiate and ask if they can give me x% off or what else can they do.