Automobile Thread

[DukeNukeEm]

I'm hoping that Tesla can come together with a truly great electric-for everyone car.

Tesla's are colossal pieces of junk. I've seen more Model S's being towed than I've seen driving. If you want to enjoy its giggle-inducing torque curve (the thing is singe speed) you'll get maybe 20 minutes out of the battery hammering it and an inevitable breakdown to follow. Amenities suck for a luxury sedan too, you can get more out of a $50k Lexus in terms of car and unless you plan on spending $30kish in gas over the life of your car (and never plan on actually going anywhere) you still come out ahead with more car going with the ICE. Same goes for the Prius, every car company on the planet--even the goddamn Koreans--are making cars lightyears better than the Prius for much less money.

 

The Leaf is garbage too. Awful machine, rife with problems and zero practicality compared to cars in its class.

 

The Volt is the only one worth buying, especially now with $5k off. It'll work most of the time, you can actually drive the damn thing without a doomsday clock and they've worked out the issues. Plus its a very nice car to be in.

 

Either way, my suggestion is get a RWD car with a peppy straight 4 and demand a 6 speed manual transmission. Vote with your wallet to get these car companies off their ass and making something a little more inspiring than bad Prius trims or ugly, unreliable, boring to drive s***box electric cars.

Edited August 8, 2013 by DukeNukeEm

[bigruss]

There's never going to be a single "Great for everyone" car. That's why there are lots of types of cars. Right now the Leaf is a great electric car for people who use small cars. The Volt is a solid car for people who want the hybrid electric + gasoline car. It's a solid car but it does have some disadvantages, but that's the case for lots of cars.

Meant for a car that "everyone" can afford, as in starting under $30k. Musk has announced that after Model X is released that's what they are going to focus on.

 

And Rock, I would absolutely love a Tesla S, those cars are freakin' awesome.

[NorthSideSox72]

Tesla has done fantastic stuff with the S. Consumer Reports called it one of the best cars they had driven, in any class, ever. Sales are sky-rocketing despite a high price tag. Early quality measures from the usual evaluating firms are positive, though it is still very early to say for sure.

 

And they used a very smart business plan... they knew early adopters were the ones with cash, so they went highest end first (their sports car), in small numbers... then the less expensive but still pricey sedan, at much larger but still relatively small numbers... their next project in the pipe is an SUV slightly cheaper... then they want to do a cheaper-still sedan at more like 40-50k. This allows them to go into economies of scale as they make their way into lower price points.

 

That one infamous newpaper article about the Tesla S, trying to get from one super-charging station to another and not making it... turns out the driver didn't follow the instructions. The author even posted a partial retraction of the original article.

 

And Tesla is smart enough to realize the fears are in part about reliability (new car, new brand), and about the battery (staying power over the years), so they are putting long warranties on the cars.

 

I may seriously consider getting one in the next few years.

 

[bigruss]

Tesla has done fantastic stuff with the S. Consumer Reports called it one of the best cars they had driven, in any class, ever. Sales are sky-rocketing despite a high price tag. Early quality measures from the usual evaluating firms are positive, though it is still very early to say for sure.

 

And they used a very smart business plan... they knew early adopters were the ones with cash, so they went highest end first (their sports car), in small numbers... then the less expensive but still pricey sedan, at much larger but still relatively small numbers... their next project in the pipe is an SUV slightly cheaper... then they want to do a cheaper-still sedan at more like 40-50k. This allows them to go into economies of scale as they make their way into lower price points.

 

That one infamous newpaper article about the Tesla S, trying to get from one super-charging station to another and not making it... turns out the driver didn't follow the instructions. The author even posted a partial retraction of the original article.

 

And Tesla is smart enough to realize the fears are in part about reliability (new car, new brand), and about the battery (staying power over the years), so they are putting long warranties on the cars.

 

I may seriously consider getting one in the next few years.

I am all about getting one in 4-5 years, I'm hoping that either the S comes down in price as the tech comes cheaper, or they have a new model that as I mentioned earlier is made for "everyone's budget".

 

I thought the X was going to be more expensive? I haven't seen any numbers other than the reservation price which is higher than the S' but that may just be because it hasn't released yet.

[NorthSideSox72]

Meant for a car that "everyone" can afford, as in starting under $30k. Musk has announced that after Model X is released that's what they are going to focus on.

 

And Rock, I would absolutely love a Tesla S, those cars are freakin' awesome.

AS I noted earlier, the plan for Tesla is sort of the opposite the way Nissan is doing it. Tesla is starting from the top working down. Give it a few years.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I am all about getting one in 4-5 years, I'm hoping that either the S comes down in price as the tech comes cheaper, or they have a new model that as I mentioned earlier is made for "everyone's budget".

 

I thought the X was going to be more expensive? I haven't seen any numbers other than the reservation price which is higher than the S' but that may just be because it hasn't released yet.

The X, I thought, was going to be slightly cheaper, but not as well appointed, at the base level. But yeah, no actual numbers out there yet, so who knows. I do know they said the longer term plan after that is a less expensive sedan or fast-back.

 

[Iwritecode]

a RWD car with a peppy straight 4

 

That’s not a combination I see very often. In my experience, most 4-cylinder cars are FWD.

[DukeNukeEm]

The problem isn't charging and batteries, you kinda know what you're signing up for when you buy an electric car. Its how rapidly you'll burn through a charge putting the car through any sort of grunt. Dude's have tracked them and gone 11 minutes before needed a recharge. That's like Veyron SS in speed-mode flat out trying to get above 250mph inefficient.

 

Then again, that one electric motor has to drag around 4,600 lbs of car (not incl driver and passengers). Its a fat car, weighs almost as much as an F-150. You plan on having a RWD car (The Model X will have a two motor AWD option, I could write a dissertation on how much I hate about that), with no transmission and weighing in at nearly 5,000 lbs when you put some bodies in it on anything but dry pavement? Go buy a S2000 now and start practicing what its like to deal with snap oversteer, because you'll need to be Sebastian Vettel in order to control that thing in the wet or, god help you, snow.

 

I'm nervous about safety with them in general. Mechanical linkages between driver and car are important, especially in this age of push-button starting and electronic gearboxes. You cant just swap it into neutral if the accelerator gets stuck. You dont get to "keep" your brakes and steering if you lose power, and there's more than one instance of these types of cars just refusing to turn off. In my opinion that's as dangerous as not having seatbelts equipped. This isn't Tesla's fault or anything, most hybrids have this problem.

 

I dont trust reviews when it comes to the Model S. Tesla is engaging in Ferrarism (google: "chris harris ferrari rant" for definition) which makes sense but is really dishonest.

 

I dont hate Tesla, I dont hate electric cars. I just look at them and see the tech as way too new and way too poorly applied 99% of the time to want one. Its already better than hybrids by a longshot but that really isn't saying much.

[Balta1701]

The problem isn't charging and batteries, you kinda know what you're signing up for when you buy an electric car. Its how rapidly you'll burn through a charge putting the car through any sort of grunt. Dude's have tracked them and gone 11 minutes before needed a recharge. That's like Veyron SS in speed-mode flat out trying to get above 250mph inefficient.

That doesn't sound right at all, can you add a link so we can see what you're talking about?

[DukeNukeEm]

That’s not a combination I see very often. In my experience, most 4-cylinder cars are FWD.

Miata, S2000, BRZ/FR-S (Flat-4, but close enough), C-Class, Z3, 924/944 (RIP)... s*** the new Mustang is going to have a 4 cylinder option again. There's a lot of them.

[iamshack]

Tesla has done fantastic stuff with the S. Consumer Reports called it one of the best cars they had driven, in any class, ever. Sales are sky-rocketing despite a high price tag. Early quality measures from the usual evaluating firms are positive, though it is still very early to say for sure.

 

And they used a very smart business plan... they knew early adopters were the ones with cash, so they went highest end first (their sports car), in small numbers... then the less expensive but still pricey sedan, at much larger but still relatively small numbers... their next project in the pipe is an SUV slightly cheaper... then they want to do a cheaper-still sedan at more like 40-50k. This allows them to go into economies of scale as they make their way into lower price points.

 

That one infamous newpaper article about the Tesla S, trying to get from one super-charging station to another and not making it... turns out the driver didn't follow the instructions. The author even posted a partial retraction of the original article.

 

And Tesla is smart enough to realize the fears are in part about reliability (new car, new brand), and about the battery (staying power over the years), so they are putting long warranties on the cars.

 

I may seriously consider getting one in the next few years.

If I was single, I would have ordered one...fiancee wouldn't let me spend that much though.

[DukeNukeEm]

That doesn't sound right at all, can you add a link so we can see what you're talking about?

On a racetrack going flat out through every straight? That's what I meant by "tracked them". Obviously your regular daily drive isn't going to run the thing flat in 11 minutes, but if you want to enjoy the performance of the things you are severely limiting its battery life.

[Balta1701]

On a racetrack going flat out through every straight? That's what I meant by "tracked them". Obviously your regular daily drive isn't going to run the thing flat in 11 minutes, but if you want to enjoy the performance of the things you are severely limiting its battery life.

Oh, ok, so that's something you compare with how often a nascar vehicle goes to the pits for gas. Gotcha.

[DukeNukeEm]

Oh, ok, so that's something you compare with how often a nascar vehicle goes to the pits for gas. Gotcha.

That's actually a pretty good comparison, NASCAR cars with restrictor plates have about the same horsepower as the Model S.

[Iwritecode]

Miata, S2000, BRZ/FR-S (Flat-4, but close enough), C-Class, Z3, 924/944 (RIP)... s*** the new Mustang is going to have a 4 cylinder option again. There's a lot of them.

 

I don’t think any of those would work for somebody looking to fit a carseat in the back. Also RWD sucks in the winter.

[RockRaines]

That doesn't sound right at all, can you add a link so we can see what you're talking about?

Yeah I think it was the guy who did it wrong. 11 minutes is not a real-world use case.

 

The thing about electric cars is the batteries. I dont trust them. A gasoline car doesnt need an AC unit to keep its gas tank cool. Those batteries scare the s*** out of me right now.

[Jenksismyhero]

I am all about getting one in 4-5 years, I'm hoping that either the S comes down in price as the tech comes cheaper, or they have a new model that as I mentioned earlier is made for "everyone's budget".

 

I thought the X was going to be more expensive? I haven't seen any numbers other than the reservation price which is higher than the S' but that may just be because it hasn't released yet.

 

So I emailed my buddy who works in the car industry about the Volt. He basically said not to get it now (or if I do, lease it) because the 2015 will be faster and have a 20-40% increase in range. The value of the current model will drop like a brick. He also warned me that the battery loses a lot of efficiency after 70k miles. I think we'll still check it out, but maybe think about leasing it for a few years instead of buying it.

 

Re: Tesla, he knows someone who works there and apparently they have a goal of releasing the generation 3 model S in 2016 for about $35k.

 

[Balta1701]

So I emailed my buddy who works in the car industry about the Volt. He basically said not to get it now (or if I do, lease it) because the 2015 will be faster and have a 20-40% increase in range. The value of the current model will drop like a brick. He also warned me that the battery loses a lot of efficiency after 70k miles. I think we'll still check it out, but maybe think about leasing it for a few years instead of buying it.

 

Re: Tesla, he knows someone who works there and apparently they have a goal of releasing the generation 3 model S in 2016 for about $35k.

Yeah, that all makes sense, and that's the problem with letting it be known that you're going to release a massively upgraded version of a car in 2 years...it's like buying a new cell phone the month before the next version is released.

 

If the tax incentives for leasing work that could be a good idea and you might be able to get the charging station installed in your home now and have that ready if you upgrade in a couple years.

[Jenksismyhero]

I should have pulled the trigger on the lease deal they had like 6-8 months ago. It was $279/month with no money down. There's one dealer in Middleton WI that still has that deal through 8/31/13. I might have to make a road trip.

[bigruss]

I should have pulled the trigger on the lease deal they had like 6-8 months ago. It was $279/month with no money down. There's one dealer in Middleton WI that still has that deal through 8/31/13. I might have to make a road trip.

What's Wisconsin's laws around taxes for leases? Better than Illinois'?

[Chisoxfn]

So I emailed my buddy who works in the car industry about the Volt. He basically said not to get it now (or if I do, lease it) because the 2015 will be faster and have a 20-40% increase in range. The value of the current model will drop like a brick. He also warned me that the battery loses a lot of efficiency after 70k miles. I think we'll still check it out, but maybe think about leasing it for a few years instead of buying it.

 

Re: Tesla, he knows someone who works there and apparently they have a goal of releasing the generation 3 model S in 2016 for about $35k.

Supposedly GM has all kinds of Lease incentives. Not sure the difference between how thinks work in CA and Illinois though. GM was really trying to push it and they had negative money factors, etc, a while back as they really want to push the crap out of the thing and I think technically there are still a lot of state benefits you can get as well to help reduce the cost, etc.

[RockRaines]

What's Wisconsin's laws around taxes for leases? Better than Illinois'?

Its gotta be, especially better than f***ing Cook county.

[Jenksismyhero]

The wife and I checked out some Toyotas this weekend. All of the Prius', the Camry Hybrid and the Avalon Hybrid. I was amazed at how much room the regular Prius had. The Prius V was even bigger and probably had more space than is really necessary for a commuter car/short-length kid taxi.

 

The Camry is what it is. Wasn't too impressed. But the Avalon, wow. Very sleek looking, luxurious, had all the bells and whistles. Gets 40-41 mpg though, so not as good as the 50 for the regular Prius, but obviously bigger and much more comfortable. We could take that on a road trip if we wanted to.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

On a racetrack going flat out through every straight? That's what I meant by "tracked them". Obviously your regular daily drive isn't going to run the thing flat in 11 minutes, but if you want to enjoy the performance of the things you are severely limiting its battery life.

FWIW the Tesla Roadster can usually last for 3-4 15 minute lapping stints without a recharge. Not sure about the Model S. If a track installed the "supercharger" thing, you could run as much as you would in a gasoline powered car at a track day by plugging it in in between sessions.

 

The Model S is more of a GT car than a track car, though.

[StrangeSox]

So I emailed my buddy who works in the car industry about the Volt. He basically said not to get it now (or if I do, lease it) because the 2015 will be faster and have a 20-40% increase in range. The value of the current model will drop like a brick. He also warned me that the battery loses a lot of efficiency after 70k miles. I think we'll still check it out, but maybe think about leasing it for a few years instead of buying it.

 

Re: Tesla, he knows someone who works there and apparently they have a goal of releasing the generation 3 model S in 2016 for about $35k.

Everything I've heard about the Volt is that, as a car, it's kind of a POS.