iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: Why does anyone offer a plea deal? Particularly in civil court, it's to avoid the expense of trial while getting the result they want. But lying to the public and overstating your ability to take your publicly traded company private is fraud and it's unacceptable. Anyway, you're being hypocritical. Replace Musk with the owner of Monsanto. You would be calling for the CEO's head in that situation. Just because you've fallen for Elon Musk's poor man's Steve Jobs act and you buy into poorly built cars with giant batteries, you think Musk should get by. Seriously, have you driven a Tesla? Pretty clearly not. They are among the safest vehicles in the world. The brand loyalty is off the charts. You should actually research the company before you form such strong opinions. https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/09/15/is-tesla-still-on-my-never-sell-list.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: I think it's a fairly simple situation. Twitter is a recorded forum, so they don't have to deal with recordings or reports or any of that . Musk posted something publicly. On the other end, it must not have been difficult to figure out that Musk had no real intent to take the company public. It's a pretty cut and dry case. There's no "well, I didn't say that" defense. The intent was 100% clear. The issue is not about his intent. He met with board and discussed taking the company public. The issue is not what his intent was, but whether he truly believed he had a commitment for the funding. He says he believes he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, iamshack said: As a stock holder, I know that stock is incredibly volatile. It’s not uncommon for the stock to move 3-5% on a daily basis. What Elon did was short-sighted and stupid, and I don’t doubt that he will ultimately get fined, but to claim that what happened that day to TSLA doesn’t happen on almost a weekly basis is simply being unaware of the volatility of that stock. Was there opportunity to be lose money because of what he said? Yes? There is an equal opportunity to lose money on the stock every time Goldman and David Einhorn come out with downgrades (simply because they short the stock) to slow the momentum of the stock. Again, should Elon not say shit like that? Yes. Conceded. But for TSLA stockholders, the movement really wasn’t unlike any other week. It isn't about volatility and it isn't about making forward statements. It is the fact that Musk violated pretty much every single safe harbor rule surrounding forward-looking statements as it pertains to Tesla. The SEC press release contains all of the rule citations at the PDF for the filing. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-219 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: It isn't about volatility and it isn't about making forward statements. It is the fact that Musk violated pretty much every single safe harbor rule surrounding forward-looking statements as it pertains to Tesla. The SEC press release contains all of the rule citations at the PDF for the filing. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-219 To add to this, reading his board's tweets on the matter is the most damning part of all. Officers in the company have no idea what he is talking about, and think it might be a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: To add to this, reading his board's tweets on the matter is the most damning part of all. Officers in the company have no idea what he is talking about, and think it might be a joke. He admitted he texted while driving and didn’t give it much thought. I honestly don’t think it really occurred to him how stupid it was. This is the same guy that went on Rogan’s podcast and smoked a huge reefer. The bottom line is, there wasn’t some huge intent to defraud anyone. It was a stupid thing to say for a guy who doesn’t always think enough before he acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 minute ago, iamshack said: He admitted he texted while driving and didn’t give it much thought. I honestly don’t think it really occurred to him how stupid it was. This is the same guy that went on Rogan’s podcast and smoked a huge reefer. The bottom line is, there wasn’t some huge intent to defraud anyone. It was a stupid thing to say for a guy who doesn’t always think enough before he acts. The rules never mention intent, though the quotes the SEC gathered at the very least make a clear case he knew what he said wasn't entirely true, which is the burden required by the rule set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: The rules never mention intent, though the quotes the SEC gathered at the very least make a clear case he knew what he said wasn't entirely true, which is the burden required by the rule set. It’s pretty obvious that the SEC feels Musk is not taking them seriously in not accepting their plea deal, and they are trying to make an example of him. If you think they are going to get him removed from TSLA you simply aren’t looking at the reality of what has happened to top executives who have done far, far worse than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 minute ago, iamshack said: It’s pretty obvious that the SEC feels Musk is not taking them seriously in not accepting their plea deal, and they are trying to make an example of him. If you think they are going to get him removed from TSLA you simply aren’t looking at the reality of what has happened to top executives who have done far, far worse than this. They are absolutely making an example of him, but it is because he clearly broke the law and gave them a slamdunk conviction on a platter. They can't let something like this go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Just now, southsider2k5 said: They are absolutely making an example of him, but it is because he clearly broke the law and gave them a slamdunk conviction on a platter. They can't let something like this go. We’ll have to wait and see, but I think you are overestimating the strength of their hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 minute ago, iamshack said: We’ll have to wait and see, but I think you are overestimating the strength of their hand. The SEC doesn't play hands they can't win. They are selective with the best lawyers in the world. And yes, I've driven a Tesla. The Model 3 is great as an Accord or a BMW 320i competitor but not at the $70K price point you have to pay. And the build quality issues are well noted on those vehicles. The Model S is a great car but not at its ridiculous price point. Look at what all the luxury car brands can do at an $80K price point. Tesla just doesn't compete. And the Model X? Yeah right. Spare yourself paying a second mortgage and get an MDX. On the bright side, when they eventually go bankrupt, a major car manufacturer will likely buy them for nickels on the dollar and Teslas will become good cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 minute ago, iamshack said: We’ll have to wait and see, but I think you are overestimating the strength of their hand. I have actually worked extensively with SEC rules and conducted examinations of member firm activities based on exchange rule sets taken directly from the SECs rule sets, including the interpretations and enforcement actions taken historically on their behalf. I think you are underestimating how incredibly stupid these actions were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I have actually worked extensively with SEC rules and conducted examinations of member firm activities based on exchange rule sets taken directly from the SECs rule sets, including the interpretations and enforcement actions taken historically on their behalf. I think you are underestimating how incredibly stupid these actions were. Yeah, perhaps I am. We know he’s lawyered up, but I will admit, I’m sure he’s ignoring their advice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: The SEC doesn't play hands they can't win. They are selective with the best lawyers in the world. And yes, I've driven a Tesla. The Model 3 is great as an Accord or a BMW 320i competitor but not at the $70K price point you have to pay. And the build quality issues are well noted on those vehicles. The Model S is a great car but not at its ridiculous price point. Look at what all the luxury car brands can do at an $80K price point. Tesla just doesn't compete. And the Model X? Yeah right. Spare yourself paying a second mortgage and get an MDX. On the bright side, when they eventually go bankrupt, a major car manufacturer will likely buy them for nickels on the dollar and Teslas will become good cars. If you believe the Model 3 Performance configuration is similar to a Honda Accord or a BMW 320i, than your opinion on automobiles is simply not worthy of consideration. The build quality issues were limited to the early production vehicles. These have been addressed and this has been commented on in numerous articles. Simply because you don’t think the other models offer value is immaterial. The market clearly does. Edited September 29, 2018 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 2 hours ago, AustinIllini said: you've fallen for Elon Musk's poor man's Steve Jobs act and you buy into poorly built cars with giant batteries Ahhhh, ok. Now at least I know where you've stood on this no matter what. That makes it easier to not take seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Ahhhh, ok. Now at least I know where you've stood on this no matter what. That makes it easier to not take seriously. You can waste your money on a trash car if you want. It's your hard-earned money. I'm just telling you what he did is illegal and to fall into his second rate reality distortion field has clearly clouded your judgement. But at least when one of the top 5 or 6 manufacturers goes out and buys Tesla you can say "I bought a limited edition one. You know, the one where you can steal it with an iPhone, the one that prematurely rusts, or the one shuts down mid driving". Father Elon said it was great so I bought a prototype with no clear cut competitors. Edited September 29, 2018 by AustinIllini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 50 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: You can waste your money on a trash car if you want. It's your hard-earned money. I'm just telling you what he did is illegal and to fall into his second rate reality distortion field has clearly clouded your judgement. But at least when one of the top 5 or 6 manufacturers goes out and buys Tesla you can say "I bought a limited edition one. You know, the one where you can steal it with an iPhone, the one that prematurely rusts, or the one shuts down mid driving". Father Elon said it was great so I bought a prototype with no clear cut competitors. Well don’t you look like a fool now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 17 minutes ago, iamshack said: Well don’t you look like a fool now. No, it's still you and dick-hammock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, Tony said: May actually be good for the company. He doesn’t lose much control but has a little safety net built in now. He remains CEO and gives up the Chairman role for 3 years. It’s pretty much a slap on the wrist. I’m pretty pleased with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 2 hours ago, iamshack said: He remains CEO and gives up the Chairman role for 3 years. It’s pretty much a slap on the wrist. I’m pretty pleased with it. This was the original plea deal he had just turned down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 9 hours ago, AustinIllini said: You can waste your money on a trash car if you want. It's your hard-earned money. I'm just telling you what he did is illegal and to fall into his second rate reality distortion field has clearly clouded your judgement. But at least when one of the top 5 or 6 manufacturers goes out and buys Tesla you can say "I bought a limited edition one. You know, the one where you can steal it with an iPhone, the one that prematurely rusts, or the one shuts down mid driving". Father Elon said it was great so I bought a prototype with no clear cut competitors. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 All I can hear when I read back Illini guy and SS2k5's posts about how hard Musk is going to pay for this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 22 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: This was the original plea deal he had just turned down. Yep, that is what I have read as well. Finally he listened to his lawyers! I will be anxious to see how the stock reacts tomorrow, but good to just get this behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, iamshack said: Yep, that is what I have read as well. Finally he listened to his lawyers! I will be anxious to see how the stock reacts tomorrow, but good to just get this behind them. My guess is that the board pushed him to do it, maybe even threatening to remove him. The company knows that a very public trial would have been the worst possible thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Rabbit did you look at the Ford CMAX? Probably can get good deals for those models now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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