Automobile Thread

[StrangeSox]

 

[iamshack]

4 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

"I do not think there is any serious chance of the settlement being rejected, based on 2nd Circuit precedent," Pritchard added. "This is just a hoop to be jumped through."

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

5 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

 

 

His lesson wasn't criticizing the SEC.

[StrangeSox]

No, it was "stop tweeting dumb crap"

 

How's the $35k model 3 coming along?

[iamshack]

45 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

No, it was "stop tweeting dumb crap"

 

How's the $35k model 3 coming along?

Not sure, but the $50k version is the fastest selling luxury car in America and is outselling the Toyota Camry. Meanwhile, the Chevy Bolt’s sales are complete shit. 

It’s pretty clear that even despite the lack of the vehicle at the price point originally promised, the Model 3 is a massive success.

[NorthSideSox72]

After driving one for over a year now, I just want to say I am loving the plug-in hybrid concept. We've been using it in a way that it's an EV like 95% of the time. Put gas in it about once every 2 or 3 months. But then still has the range for long road trips and gets 41 mpg even after the battery runs down and it goes to straight-hybrid.

In 2-3 years we will replace our current 2nd car (a 2012 Honda Pilot), probably with another SUV, and am hoping to get a PHEV for that too. Looking around, there are a bunch of those and more coming, but the problem is it's all expensive luxury brands: BMW, Mercedes, Audi... Volvo has some that are not quite as pricey but still pretty expensive. I'm really hoping that the Toyota/Honda/Subaru/Hyundai/Kia's of the world, or VW or Ford, start going down this road with SUV's too in the next few years.

 

[iamshack]

11 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

After driving one for over a year now, I just want to say I am loving the plug-in hybrid concept. We've been using it in a way that it's an EV like 95% of the time. Put gas in it about once every 2 or 3 months. But then still has the range for long road trips and gets 41 mpg even after the battery runs down and it goes to straight-hybrid.

In 2-3 years we will replace our current 2nd car (a 2012 Honda Pilot), probably with another SUV, and am hoping to get a PHEV for that too. Looking around, there are a bunch of those and more coming, but the problem is it's all expensive luxury brands: BMW, Mercedes, Audi... Volvo has some that are not quite as pricey but still pretty expensive. I'm really hoping that the Toyota/Honda/Subaru/Hyundai/Kia's of the world, or VW or Ford, start going down this road with SUV's too in the next few years.

 

I just don’t care for having to maintain an ice if 95% of my use is covered by batteries. For that reason, I refuse to purchase a hybrid. 

That being said, there is a huge gap in the market for bev suv’s. So if you must have an suv, I can understand the predicament.

[NorthSideSox72]

2 hours ago, iamshack said:

I just don’t care for having to maintain an ice if 95% of my use is covered by batteries. For that reason, I refuse to purchase a hybrid. 

That being said, there is a huge gap in the market for bev suv’s. So if you must have an suv, I can understand the predicament.

The maintenance of a combustion engine is so, so minimal though, in this scenario. I get an oil change like once a year, a filter here or there. And in exchange I get a car with very high efficiency but also the ability to drive longer distances. It's the best of both worlds from my perspective.

I should note the current PHEV we have is a Kia Optima. 4-door sedan, works just fine for almost everything we do. But for the runs to the hardware store or garden shop or with bikes somewhere, that kind of thing, having one of our cars as an SUV would be very useful.

 

[iamshack]

1 hour ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

The maintenance of a combustion engine is so, so minimal though, in this scenario. I get an oil change like once a year, a filter here or there. And in exchange I get a car with very high efficiency but also the ability to drive longer distances. It's the best of both worlds from my perspective.

I should note the current PHEV we have is a Kia Optima. 4-door sedan, works just fine for almost everything we do. But for the runs to the hardware store or garden shop or with bikes somewhere, that kind of thing, having one of our cars as an SUV would be very useful.

 

Yeah, I view it inversely: the number of instances in which the range is an issue is so limited that in those instances I can borrow or rent a vehicle to accommodate for them. 

I really like cars, so I’ll never say never, but I’d like to think I’m all EV from here on out.

Just activated rooftop pv today at my house actually, which makes the decision to go full EV even easier.

[NorthSideSox72]

27 minutes ago, iamshack said:

Yeah, I view it inversely: the number of instances in which the range is an issue is so limited that in those instances I can borrow or rent a vehicle to accommodate for them. 

I really like cars, so I’ll never say never, but I’d like to think I’m all EV from here on out.

Just activated rooftop pv today at my house actually, which makes the decision to go full EV even easier.

That's kinda my plan too, going solar at some point for the house. Not going to go in now, but in a few years it will be cycle time for new shingles anyway, so that will be when I look into it. I've been making changes to go more electric anyway, like the PHEV car(s), and a new instant-on electric hot water heater (which has been great), so that I get as much out of that as possible. The PHEV and HWH are money-savers in their own right anyway. But I'll do some payback period math on a solar roof/cells/shingles when it comes time, and as long as that payback period is within the time we are likely to stay in that house, I'll be in.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

13 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

No, it was "stop tweeting dumb crap"

No, it was don't break SEC rules. Only be dumb on purpose if you're actually attempting to be funny. Thanks.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

9 hours ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

After driving one for over a year now, I just want to say I am loving the plug-in hybrid concept. We've been using it in a way that it's an EV like 95% of the time. Put gas in it about once every 2 or 3 months. But then still has the range for long road trips and gets 41 mpg even after the battery runs down and it goes to straight-hybrid.

In 2-3 years we will replace our current 2nd car (a 2012 Honda Pilot), probably with another SUV, and am hoping to get a PHEV for that too. Looking around, there are a bunch of those and more coming, but the problem is it's all expensive luxury brands: BMW, Mercedes, Audi... Volvo has some that are not quite as pricey but still pretty expensive. I'm really hoping that the Toyota/Honda/Subaru/Hyundai/Kia's of the world, or VW or Ford, start going down this road with SUV's too in the next few years.

 

Do you have a Volt?  That would likely be my 2nd choice after the Model 3.

EDIT: I see it now, Kia Optimia. Kia's have come a long way, it seems.

Edited October 6, 2018 by ChiliIrishHammock24

[NorthSideSox72]

36 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Do you have a Volt?  That would likely be my 2nd choice after the Model 3.

EDIT: I see it now, Kia Optimia. Kia's have come a long way, it seems.

We looked at the Volt. It was just too cramped for the four of us, and didn't have the depth of features that other cars we looked at had (i.e. Toyota Prius Prime, Kia Optima PHEV, Hyundai PHEV, some non-PHEV cars we saw). It did have more electric range (like 50 miles I think versus the 29 we get) but everything else was similar or worse than the Kia.

[Chisoxfn]

On 10/5/2018 at 5:16 AM, iamshack said:

Not sure, but the $50k version is the fastest selling luxury car in America and is outselling the Toyota Camry. Meanwhile, the Chevy Bolt’s sales are complete shit. 

It’s pretty clear that even despite the lack of the vehicle at the price point originally promised, the Model 3 is a massive success.

Technically speaking, the Camry outsold the Model 3.  Camry sold 30K units in September vs. 22K from Tesla.  What Tesla is though is the undisputed champion of all things EV. Not even close...they are the market.  You can take all the other major EV players and combine them together and they still fall short out of Tesla (in the post Model 3 world). The interesting concept will be what will Telsa's go-forward run rate look like since they had a huge order book going into launch. Either way, while I question Tesla's long term ability to be a sustainable car manufacturer...I do not undersell the impact they will have on the auto industry.  

Tesla, post Model 3 success, represents ~2% of the US marketplace.  Prior to the Model 3, they represented roughly .3-.4% of the US marketplace.  Additionally, electric vehicle sales represent barely much more than the Tesla market-share.  What Tesla has accomplished is astonishing and if EV ultimately becomes fully mainstream, they will be the reason why (or at least a huge driver in why it emerged when it did, etc)...that said, the sheer mass production capabilities of the major auto manufacturers can quickly pivot as the scale/margins evolve. This is not to say that Tesla doesn't have a massive head start...it does...but it also has certain material limitations around production/distribution (including robust worldwide capabilities).

At some point Tesla will be acquired...but not for a long time as they are way way too expensive (valuations > than every other auto manufacturer on the planet).  Instead companies will continue to reverse engineer and pour more and more into R&D as the EV marketplace continues to emerge.  

We can look back in 10 years at this post and see how crazy wrong I am haha.  

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

8 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Technically speaking, the Camry outsold the Model 3.  Camry sold 30K units in September vs. 22K from Tesla.  What Tesla is though is the undisputed champion of all things EV. Not even close...they are the market.  You can take all the other major EV players and combine them together and they still fall short out of Tesla (in the post Model 3 world). The interesting concept will be what will Telsa's go-forward run rate look like since they had a huge order book going into launch. Either way, while I question Tesla's long term ability to be a sustainable car manufacturer...I do not undersell the impact they will have on the auto industry.  

Tesla, post Model 3 success, represents ~2% of the US marketplace.  Prior to the Model 3, they represented roughly .3-.4% of the US marketplace.  Additionally, electric vehicle sales represent barely much more than the Tesla market-share.  What Tesla has accomplished is astonishing and if EV ultimately becomes fully mainstream, they will be the reason why (or at least a huge driver in why it emerged when it did, etc)...that said, the sheer mass production capabilities of the major auto manufacturers can quickly pivot as the scale/margins evolve. This is not to say that Tesla doesn't have a massive head start...it does...but it also has certain material limitations around production/distribution (including robust worldwide capabilities).

At some point Tesla will be acquired...but not for a long time as they are way way too expensive (valuations > than every other auto manufacturer on the planet).  Instead companies will continue to reverse engineer and pour more and more into R&D as the EV marketplace continues to emerge.  

We can look back in 10 years at this post and see how crazy wrong I am haha.  

While 2% seems, and is, inconsequential, I'm more interested in the quarter-to-quarter marketshare of new vehicles sold, and for EV as a category, really. Because cars don't get replaced very often, and I don't mean replaced by a single owner, I mean the VIN is actually retired off the roads. If ICE vehicles stopped being produced tomorrow, you would still need a decade or so until they became the minority, and 20+ years until you rarely see one on the streets.

[Chisoxfn]

10 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

While 2% seems, and is, inconsequential, I'm more interested in the quarter-to-quarter marketshare of new vehicles sold, and for EV as a category, really. Because cars don't get replaced very often, and I don't mean replaced by a single owner, I mean the VIN is actually retired off the roads. If ICE vehicles stopped being produced tomorrow, you would still need a decade or so until they became the minority, and 20+ years until you rarely see one on the streets.

The Stat I was quoting was representative of purely NEW US auto sales. Tesla represents 2% of NEW US auto sales.  

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Here we go again......*sigh*

 

https://electrek.co/2018/10/10/republican-bill-end-federal-tax-credit-for-electric-car/

 

[Panerista]

The $7500 tax credit would have expired anyway.  Also, EVs should be subject to a tax to repair infrastructure they utilize.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

17 hours ago, AustinIllini said:

The $7500 tax credit would have expired anyway.  Also, EVs should be subject to a tax to repair infrastructure they utilize.

For Tesla....and it's merely in it's current phase out period, as it goes down to $3750 for 2 quarters, and then $1875 for 2 quarters.

And EVs are taxed to repair infrastructure that they utilize.

[NorthSideSox72]

On 10/13/2018 at 7:09 AM, AustinIllini said:

  Also, EVs should be subject to a tax to repair infrastructure they utilize.

I think this is a really important point that will need to be addressed. A combination of generally better fuel efficiency across basically all cars, and the rapid growth of EV's and PHEV's, means the revenue from gas taxes is dropping and that process will only accelerate. It means we need to re-think how we pay for infrastructure, at least the part that had previously been done by relying on gas tax money.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

2 hours ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

I think this is a really important point that will need to be addressed. A combination of generally better fuel efficiency across basically all cars, and the rapid growth of EV's and PHEV's, means the revenue from gas taxes is dropping and that process will only accelerate. It means we need to re-think how we pay for infrastructure, at least the part that had previously been done by relying on gas tax money.

 

Right now less than 50% of infrastructure relies on the taxes made from gas sales. Most of it comes from tolls and other avenues. And like I said, EVs do pay their own annual EV tax that goes towards infrastructure. 

[NorthSideSox72]

1 hour ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Right now less than 50% of infrastructure relies on the taxes made from gas sales. Most of it comes from tolls and other avenues. And like I said, EVs do pay their own annual EV tax that goes towards infrastructure. 

Less than 50% is still a very, very large number. Tolls cover only a very tiny portion. And what EV tax are you talking about?

 

[BigSqwert]

Did a factory order of a Jeep Cherokee and it's on its way less than 2 weeks after ordering.  Thought it would take much longer as they estimated up to 8 weeks depending on production cycle.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

10 hours ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

Less than 50% is still a very, very large number. Tolls cover only a very tiny portion. And what EV tax are you talking about?

 

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/13-states-now-charge-fees-for-electric-vehicles#gs.SxeaTvA

 

That article is from over a year ago. I believe more states have joined in, or even increased the fee. In Indiana I believe it's $125 or $150 annual fee.

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by ChiliIrishHammock24

[NorthSideSox72]

9 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/13-states-now-charge-fees-for-electric-vehicles#gs.SxeaTvA

 

That article is from over a year ago. I believe more states have joined in, or even increased the fee. In Indiana I believe it's $125 or $150 annual fee.

 

OK. Makes sense to start something like that, but the amount isn't going to cover it in the long run and that's state, not federal. Maybe that is better in the end, to start pushing infra down more to the states, but that's a whole other can of worms. Thanks for the link. Will be very curious to see how this goes.