You're Hahn, who are you looking to trade first?

[Noonskadoodle]

Goldschmidt/Corbin/Gregorius/Bradley or Skaggs

 

for

 

Sale/Paulie

 

[ShandyMan]

Goldschmidt/Corbin/Gregorius/Bradley or Skaggs

 

for

 

Sale/Paulie

 

 

With Skaggs? Definitely.

 

AZ would never do that though.

[caulfield12]

And, for those only wanting to trade Peavy/Crain/Thornton/Lindstrom....and compete next year.

 

 

1B Adam Lind, Morales, Carlos Pena

2B Utley

OF Granderson/Ethier/BJ Upton (no way we touch those 2 contracts with a ten foot pole without 75% subsidy included)

C McCann

[Noonskadoodle]

With Skaggs? Definitely.

 

AZ would never do that though.

 

Yea probably right.

 

Although Sale facing the NL night in & night out...... :o

[caulfield12]

Yea probably right.

 

Although Sale facing the NL night in & night out...... :o

 

 

See Francisco Liriano with a 1.70 ERA right now.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Erik Johnson? LOL, what?

 

Also, without reading any comments, I picked Jesse Crain immediately. Glad to see everyone else agrees.

[Noonskadoodle]

Erik Johnson? LOL, what?

 

Also, without reading any comments, I picked Jesse Crain immediately. Glad to see everyone else agrees.

 

Yea Jesse could really bring back a solid prospect.

[Hawkfan]

After reading all the amazing east coast hype on beckham, I'd like to know what he could get. I know it wouldn't be enough.

How's Peavys trade value after the injury?

[caulfield12]

Erik Johnson? LOL, what?

 

Also, without reading any comments, I picked Jesse Crain immediately. Glad to see everyone else agrees.

 

 

Didn't want to argue with anyone if I included Phegley, Santiago, Quintana or Reed, lol.

 

 

[caulfield12]

After reading all the amazing east coast hype on beckham, I'd like to know what he could get. I know it wouldn't be enough.

How's Peavys trade value after the injury?

 

 

Zero for now. Probably huge the last two weeks of July if he comes back successfully and is popping the fastball.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Erik Johnson? LOL, what?

 

Also, without reading any comments, I picked Jesse Crain immediately. Glad to see everyone else agrees.

Crain should take a bit logner though since (if we don't trade Peavy or Rios) he might bring back the best piece. We'll need to send scouts out a lot over a Crain deal, mull things over, let teams kind of try to out do each other if they will,e tc. But with that said Hahn needs to make it known that he's available right now & if someone wants to bowl him over then the deal's done ASAP.

 

Also Erik Johnson could be used in a deal for an MLB position player under control then that might work. He's unproven so I'd be open to trading him, but then again we have little RHSP depth so I'd rather look to keep him assuming the organization really is as high on him as they've let on.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I jsutr realized the small print says "Who has the most trade value but is likely to lose some" while the thread asks "Who are you lookign to trade first"

 

2 totally different questions

 

 

[Balta1701]

Do you think the A's would trade Cespedes, or the Dodgers Puig (for Sale)?

 

For the A's, having some semblance of an offense has to be more important than MORE pitching.

I would not move Sale for either of them. Puig could convince me by the end of the year, but I also don't know his contract status.

[ShandyMan]

Yea probably right.

 

Although Sale facing the NL night in & night out...... :o

 

With that trade we take on a SS, possible frontline starter, and 1B who are all ~25.

 

I'd do that trade each and everyday.

[caulfield12]

I jsutr realized the small print says "Who has the most trade value but is likely to lose some" while the thread asks "Who are you lookign to trade first"

 

2 totally different questions

 

Well, they're interrelated, although I did it to broaden the discussion and look at it from different angles. Crain is the obvious answer for the first one, but not necessarily who you would be looking to trade first (although if he starts getting hit around the next two months or gets injured, Hahn will be kicking himself...just like with Gavin Floyd).

 

The Peavy injury can work in his favor as long as Jake returns at 100% again before the deadline for 2-3 starts.

 

It is boring to type the same thing 3 times in a row when you're doing a poll...

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yea Jesse could really bring back a solid prospect.

 

Looking at these bullpen splits, a contending team w/ a terrible bullpen, not in our division appears to be the St. Louis Cardinals.

 

A quick glance at their prospects and a wishlist I'd make for a swap for Crain would be in order....

 

 

10) Carson Kelly, 3B, Grade B-

11) Patrick Wisdom, 3B, Grade B-

12) Stephen Piscotty, 3B, Grade B-

13) Greg Garcia, 2B-SS, Grade C+

 

Rankings/grades according to minorleagueball.com

Edited June 8, 2013 by Chilihead90

[caulfield12]

I would not move Sale for either of them. Puig could convince me by the end of the year, but I also don't know his contract status.

 

 

Yasiel Puig of

7 years/$42M (2012-18)

 

7 years/$42M (2012-18)

signed Major League contract with LA Dodgers as a free agent 6/27/12

$12M signing bonus

12:$2M, 13:$2M, 14:$2M, 15:$4.5M, 16:$5.5M, 17:$6.5M, 18:$7.5M

may opt in to arbitration once he earns 3 years of Major League service time

agent: Jaime Torres

ML service: 0.000

 

 

I would take the everyday player over a pitcher with Sale's risk of injury, but that's just me.

 

And yeah, it's early. Puig's offensive weaknesses haven't been exploited yet by advance scouts.

 

The agent, our old friend Jaime Torres. Plus, I think it would inspire Viciedo to pick up his game to have another fellow compatriot on the team...who is flying right past him.

 

 

[Noonskadoodle]

With that trade we take on a SS, possible frontline starter, and 1B who are all ~25.

 

I'd do that trade each and everyday.

 

That's the ONLY trade I make for Sale....Paulie can head back home & maybe get re energized being in the hunt.

 

We would get some very very solid young guys. Goldschmidt plugs in immediately at 1st. Gregorius gives us the option of trading off Alexei & plugging Didi in immediately. Corbin moving to the AL would be my only concern, but I just love the way he attacks the hitters & his presence on the mound.

 

DBacks I dont think would ever move Goldschmidt though.

[caulfield12]

That's the ONLY trade I make for Sale....Paulie can head back home & maybe get re energized being in the hunt.

 

We would get some very very solid young guys. Goldschmidt plugs in immediately at 1st. Gregorius gives us the option of trading off Alexei & plugging Didi in immediately. Corbin moving to the AL would be my only concern, but I just love the way he attacks the hitters & his presence on the mound.

 

DBacks I dont think would ever move Goldschmidt though.

 

 

There's just no way in hell the DiamondBacks make that trade. Impossible.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

That's the ONLY trade I make for Sale....Paulie can head back home & maybe get re energized being in the hunt.

 

We would get some very very solid young guys. Goldschmidt plugs in immediately at 1st. Gregorius gives us the option of trading off Alexei & plugging Didi in immediately. Corbin moving to the AL would be my only concern, but I just love the way he attacks the hitters & his presence on the mound.

 

DBacks I dont think would ever move Goldschmidt though.

 

So in other words, the Dbacks 3 best players for our 1 best player. Yeah, I'm not seeing them agree to that, especially since they wrote up a press release for drafting Sale, and then decided against it at the last second. That's a hefty price for a redo pick.

[caulfield12]

I am not sure what you're arguing here.

 

Only sure things in the pen next year are Reed and Jones and a Reed trade wouldn't shock me. That leaves 5 spots in the pen.

 

From which we have to chose from:

RHP: Simon Castro, Andre Rienzo, Jake Petricka, Daniel Webb, Duente Heath, Jahn Marinez, Nestor Molina, Brian Ommogrosso, Ramon Trancoso.

LHP: Santos Rodriguez, Donnie Veal, Charlie Leesman, Leyson Septimo, David Purcey.

 

Do you expect to go into '14 with 5 of those guys???

 

I think the only certainty (in terms of what moves we make) between now and March 2014 is that we sign at least one relief pitcher. Preferably 2-3. We are not going to go into next year with a s*** bullpen regardless of where we stand. We have solid SP. We have to keep/make the bullpen strong and pair it with our SP. You don't let that kind of starting pitching (Sale, Peavy*, Danks, Quintana, Axelrod, Santiago, Johnson) go to waste.

 

In any case, if we signed (for argument's sake) Mike Gonzalez to a 1 year 3 million dollar contract and in July he's got an ERA below 3.5 and K/9 around 9 we have two scenarios: Keep him if we're in it OR trade him for prospects. Either way, awesome. I trust the Sox to do their homework and pick the right guy and no matter what happens we can win a signing like that.

 

Matt Lindstrom applies to this type of situation but he isn't pitching the greatest.

 

Jason Frasor would be another. We trade a average-mediocre arm and pick up two prospects (Myles Jaye and Daniel Webb) that are now in the top 15 in our system.

 

 

That spending $10-15 million on a bullpen for a team that will likely lost 90 games without major offensive improvements or a miraculous recovery from Adam Dunn is not a top priority. Having an elite closer isn't or shouldn't be a priority, either.

 

The Rays made this determination is 2006 and 2007 that the ROI of winning 76 versus 72 games weighed against the payoff of the much higher draft pick wasn't worth it. (Although the White Sox revenue/broadcast ratings/attendance is more of a factor for the White Sox than the Rays).

 

This isn't like overpaying for Linebrink and Dotel because you're desperate to build a bridge to the back of the pen.

 

From that list of relievers, the only ones right now who have a good shot to be exciting/dynamic pitchers are Webb and Rodriguez. The rest are mostly AAAA relievers. But that doesn't mean that spending on veterans who aren't part of the long-term plan is necessarily a better option.

 

You might as well put our 2nd round draft pick from yesterday at the top of that list, along with Webb.

 

When you sign those guys, you're also taking a risk that they get injured or don't perform. The White Sox have never been in the business of acquiring players to sell them off, with that being the primary consideration...or we could have gotten a lot back for JJ Putz, for example.

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[Noonskadoodle]

So in other words, the Dbacks 3 best players for our 1 best player. Yeah, I'm not seeing them agree to that, especially since they wrote up a press release for drafting Sale, and then decided against it at the last second. That's a hefty price for a redo pick.

 

 

Yea I agree & already said I doubt the DBacks would consider it.

 

but that's how good Sale is IMO.

 

& I'm not so sure I would list Didi as one of their 3 best players.

 

 

.......

 

DBacks keep contending & keep taking hits at their SP spot (Hudson out for the year & McCarthy on the DL) they may wanna go after a bonafide ace. Hell I might throw in Crain to shore up their bullpen.

 

How about:

 

Goldschmidt/Gregorius/Skaggs/Bradley

 

for

 

Sale/Konerko/Crain

 

Would that entice any of you guys? I'm not a fan unless Corbin is involved.

[caulfield12]

We would have to pay all of the remainder of Konerko's deal, for one.

 

They're not going to tear apart their infield, it's just not going to happen.

[Noonskadoodle]

We would have to pay all of the remainder of Konerko's deal, for one.

 

They're not going to tear apart their infield, it's just not going to happen.

 

Tear apart their infield?

 

Paulie obviously moves to 1st.

 

Aaron Hill will be back at 2nd when he returns....Pennington will then go to his original spot at SS.

 

Of course it's a long shot, but just saying how good Sale is & what he could potentially bring us in return. The sky is seriously the limit for him in the NL.

[caulfield12]

1.) I love how you write off a team and say they will lose 90 games when you haven't even seen the beginning of the roster changes/shaping.

2.) I didn't say anything about 10 or 13 million dollar deals.

Deals like these from the 2013 offseason: Randy Choate 3yr/7.5mil, Sean Burnett 2 yr/8mil, Jason Grill 2yr/6.75mil, Kyle Farnsworth 1yr/1.25mil, Koji Uehara 1yr/4.25 mil, Mike Gonzalez 1yr/2.25 mil, JP Howell 1yr/2.85mil, Joel Peralta 2yr/6mil.

3.) "The rest are mostly AAAA relievers. But that doesn't mean that spending on veterans who aren't part of the long-term plan is necessarily a better option." This is my personal favorite. As if accomplished veterans aren't the better option. You play to win the game. You don't trout out David Purcey because you're offense lacks a couple dynamic pieces. You go to work expecting to be better everywhere else (SP, bullpen and defense) to compensate for your s***ty offense and prepare to play fundamentally sound. Look at the A's, look at the Rays. A good defense and bullpen can be made cheaper than an offence or rotation.

4.) Alright so you say all the options except Rodriguez and Webb (who may not even be ready) suck and you may be right. So who fills out the other three spots Septimo, Ommogrosso and Heath? What kind of message does that show to give Reed and Jones two rookie, decent prospects and three s*** AAAA guys?

5.) Isn't Danish going to start? Wouldn't that be dumb to bring your second round draft pick out of HS to the majors on a team that you think will lose 90 games?

6.) Why would the Sox trade off one of their best bullpen arms in Putz if they just traded for Jake Peavy as a reinforcement to the team that was still in contention?

 

Your whole post is wrong.

 

2) It's easy to go back and cherry pick reliever deals that have worked. Heck, everyone in baseball had a shot at Jason Grilli from 2004 through 2012. I could just as easily come up with a list of reliever deals that went bad and wasted money with no ROI. For every year that a Politte, Hermanson and Cotts will pan out, there'll be one like 2007 when all the veteran bullpen guys go south simultaneously.

 

3) I never said anything about using Purcey, you did. We need to get experience for our most talented, dynamic arms. So I would try Santos Rodriguez, or even Henry Rodriguez, because they have talent and ability. Keep in mind, we competed last year for 5 1/2 months with 11 rookies, it doesn't mean we don't have ANY solutions in our minor leagues.

 

4) If we did trade Peavy/Rios/Ramirez...then yeah, we're heading for a 90 loss team in 2014. If it's just relievers being dealt...and possibly Peavy, then we can realistically compete and then I'd be more open to adding veteran pieces, but not if we tear apart most of the key veteran pieces. Our bullpen right now has TONS OF ISSUES AS IS, you don't see Hahn making trades to improve it for this year by adding veterans when there's no or little opportunity to compete with the Tigers.

 

5) Danish will begin as a starter, all pitchers with at least two above average major league pitches do....except for Addison Reed (who Phil Rogers wants to convert to starting). That doesn't mean it's not more likely that he won't end up making an impact at the major league level as a reliever first.

 

6) They wouldn't. That's my point. The White Sox have never signed players with the most important consideration being their future trade value to auction them off at the deadline. We've never operated like the Royals. Our philosophy was always to try to win in that given season...although perhaps that changes for the first time in 2014.

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12