You're Hahn, who are you looking to trade first?

[ShandyMan]

Who would it take for us to get a Tony Cingrani or Anthony Rendon?

 

Rios/Crain package? Peavy?

 

I'm just curious, and am in no way saying that's what will happen or should happen so don't flame me hahaha.

 

Could we even do it?

Edited June 8, 2013 by staxx

[fathom]

The Pirates are a team the Sox should be targeting. Someone like Josh Bell is a good person to target, as obviously Taillon and Cole aren't going anywhere. Pirates could possibly use someone like Alexei and Crain.

[caulfield12]

2.) http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/transactions/free-agents

Show me where I cherry picked. I left out three guys that fit the parameters for the contracts and mostly because they were untradeable. Darren Oliver -he's 46 and would have no worth in trade. Soria- Coming off of surgery and would be 6 mil a year. Vincente Padilla - I personally hate him and would have no trade worth. So no. Feel free to make your list from last season's free agents. They can't be big signings either because that's not what I am calling for.

 

3.) We don't have Henry Rodriguez. You said AAAA pitcher I said David Purcey, same difference. We also had Thornton, Crain, Ohman and Brett Myers last year too. So no we did not compete 5.5 months with 11 rookies. The guys who made up the bulk of our innings along with Reed and Jones were not rookies. Reed was a legitimate a prospect and we have nothing like him currently in our system. Jones was a wild card and pitched well. You can't expect that season from any Rookie we have to offer.

 

4.) The point was, and has been noted by other posters, that you jump to absolute conclusions. You are sure we will lose 90 when you have no idea what the roster will look like. This season is already seriously down trending why would we pick up bullpen arms. You go into every season planning to win regardless of what you have and with our pitching, we are not that far away from having an outside chance of playoffs.

 

5.) Well you already contradicted your first point about Danish. He's beginning his career as a starter, that's that. He won't be in Chicago in 2014.

 

6.) You have to look at the state of the franchise. '05 we won and made trades for MLB players. '06 we won and made trades for MLB players. '07 we sucked and we traded our MLB players. '08 we won and we traded for MLB players (and dumped off Thome and Contreras in August too). '09 we lost and we trade for MLB players. '10 won and traded for MLB players. '11 We traded Edwin Jackson and Teahen for Frazier actively pursued Dunn. '12 we won and we traded for MLB players.

So when were we supposed to sell off players? (aside from when we actually did in '07 and '09) Did I say Royals? Didn't I say A's and Rays?

 

Go ahead, you can be the GM.

 

If you picked any random person from SoxTalk, about 90% of them couldn't make things much worse than they already are now if they intentionally tried to sabotage the team.

 

And yes, I'm sure we will lose 90 games if Viciedo is a bust, Dunn's still on the roster, we trade Peavy/Rios/Ramirez and John Danks is still the same pitcher on Opening Day 2014 that he is today.

 

I guess it could be 87-88-89 losses, but there's no way we'll be a competitive team until 2015 if all those eventualities occur.

 

We can make a bet right now. Your plan will have us at 75-79 wins, maybe...but it's not going to even get you back to .500.

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[elrockinMT]

You don't trade the players who are performing and then expect to contend in the near future. Plus when you do trade what do you want in return?You don't just tear your team apart out of frustration.

[IlliniKrush]

You don't trade the players who are performing and then expect to contend in the near future. Plus when you do trade what do you want in return?You don't just tear your team apart out of frustration.

Makes no sense.

 

If this was the case, there would never be a trade in MLB.

[ShandyMan]

You don't trade the players who are performing and then expect to contend in the near future. Plus when you do trade what do you want in return?You don't just tear your team apart out of frustration.

 

What do we do then? Do we remain below-average, drafting 10-15th for the next 3-4 years until our older players are gone and then let our farm take over?

 

You can't build a team through free agency anymore, unless you want overpaid players on the wrong side of 30 that will remain good players for half of their contracts.

 

If we go that direction, you need to trade what little impact players you have now, for a potential impact player that you will control for the next ~5 years, then supplement that through FA.

 

If we had a few impact players in our farm, this would be different, but we don't. We have MAYBE 1-2. One of which who is likely 3-4 years away(Hawkins) and the other (Johnson) won't help since we can't hit to save our lives

Edited June 8, 2013 by staxx

[caulfield12]

Basically you cannot defend your flawed agruments any longer. Cool.

 

Because you shouldn't be putting a win total to a season after hearing my opinion on how to approach relief pitching. Those whole post has nothing to do with anything I said to you.

 

 

LOL.

 

What's the point of arguing about this year's bullpen off-season signing possibilities when it has already happened? Why would they have added ANY of those pitchers coming into 2013? (Unless there's a thread somewhere I missed where you were arguing this off-season that those guys all specifically should be signed for our bullpen, which was a strength for most of last season until the final 6 weeks).

 

It has absolutely zero bearing on anything that happens between now and Opening Day, 2014.

 

It's like saying, what would have happened if Jhonny Peralta wasn't using steroids or if we signed Puig/Cespedes instead of Dayan Viciedo?

 

 

[caulfield12]

It's called a reference to understand what the market and targets would be like. Unlike you, I want to win. I would rather go into the season with a bullpen and go from there. It's a philosophy to either bring in talent and/or help the team win.

 

You're not even worth arguing with because you can't stay on topic for two posts anyways. You just go off on your tangents and make your outlandish predictions as if they are a sure thing.

 

 

Because your whole argument is predicated on flawed logic.

 

You're arguing a team that could conceivably have 9 different players in the starting line-up for Opening Day 2014 needs to prioritize its bullpen. You do that when you're the Rays entering the 2008 season and are 1-2 players away from competing.

 

You don't do that in the situation the White Sox are going to find themselves in. In fact, logic would dictate trading Addison Reed before it would adding a bunch of veteran bullpen pieces, actually.

 

 

You're making plenty of strawman posts yourself, arguing that Purcey or Moskos should be the loogy, when I said nothing of the kind...I said I would rather take a risk with actual talented pitchers like Santos Rodriguez or Henry Rodriguez (if he can be acquired on the cheap).

 

 

 

Name ONE TEAM in the last 2-3 years that has successfully taken this approach of building a playoff team by getting prospects for veteran relievers at the deadline.

 

You cite Jaye and Webb as if they're surefire major league relievers or anything beyond being decent prospects at this point.

 

The fact of the matter is that you can't get Top 10 cost-controlled prospects because there's been a huge premium placed on them in the last couple of seasons, and it's getting even more difficult with the evening of draft pools and international signing money pools.

 

It's not like you can get Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson, or John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander anymore, or Ricardo Rincon for Brian Giles.

 

 

Look at the Royals' bullpens over the last 2-3-4 seasons, arguably the strength of that franchise.

What have they gotten back in return for any of those guys? For Soria? For Escobar? Nothing.

 

What did KW get back for Sergio Santos?

 

It does not matter how bad the bullpen is if it's only making the difference between an 84-86 loss team and an 88-94 loss team.

 

You play for the higher draft pick and convince your fans you're following an actual plan or strategy for the future (for a change).

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Three years ago, what you said MIGHT have made sense, but everything has changed since then.

 

At that time, you could take someone like Kyle Farnsworth, Ankiel and cash and get back Tim Collins, Gregor Blanco (who they foolishly undervalued in favor of Jarrod Dyson) and Jesse Chavez (who they also let go to the Blue Jays/A's).

 

A more current comparison would be Jonathan Broxton. The two pitchers the Royals got back from Cincy, one was around the 10th ranked prospect for the Reds and he's got a 5.95 ERA for Omaha (Donnie Joseph). The other one, JC Sulbaran, has an 8.78 ERA for NW Arkansas/AA.

 

 

[caulfield12]

You're just wrong on so many levels. Its about acquiring assets. Relief pitchers are needed every summer and you need anchors in your pen. Who is going to anchor your pen if Reed closes? We have nothing. Nothing. Maybe Jones if he gets it back together.

 

I never cited Webb and Jaye as surefire prospect but PLEASE show me how I did that because you're full of s***. I said they were top 15 prospects for us now and they are.

 

Why don't you look up how Chris Davis was acquired by the O's.

 

I'll just ignore your irrelevant comment about John Smoltz and Brian Giles.

 

I don't know why the Royals are your favorite team to talk about but they didn't trade Soria so why would they get anything for him? I don't know who Escobar is to be honest. I know Alcides the SS but no reliever off the top of my head.

 

"You play for the higher draft pick and convince your fans you're following an actual plan or strategy for the future (for a change)."

 

Your favorite team the Royals:

2003 - Christopher Lubanski- 5th overall

2005 - Alex Gordon- 2nd overall

2006 - Luke Hocheavar - 1st overall

2007 - Mike Moustakas - 2nd overall

2008 - Eric Hosmer - 3rd overall

2010 - Christian Colon - 4th overall - http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t...&pid=518568 (2013: .227/.281/.310)

2011 - Bubba Starling - 5th overall - http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?s...&pid=605490 (2013: .223/.280/.353)

2012 - Kyle Zimmer - 5th overall - http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?s...&pid=622092 (2013: 0-6, 6.32 ERA)

 

So with 8 top 10 picks in 10 years the Royals have Alex Gordon and a bunch of busts and under-preforming prospects. There's your plan and that's how it works. Funny how your favorite team is a great example of it's flaws.

 

 

Here we go again. Because the Astros, Mariners and Royals have made a bunch of bad draft picks in the top 10 (or bad trades/FA signings), that means the White Sox necessarily must do the same thing.

 

The White Sox are going to have the same revenue whether they lose 86, 88, 90 or 92 games next year.

 

However, the difference between picking 6th in the draft and 10th or 12th can be huge.

 

Losing 86 games is not being competitive or having close to a playoff team...not to MOST White Sox fans.

 

 

I apologize (like Greg) for living in Kansas City for a decade and also paying attention to what's going on with their team. Yost and Moore should be fired, but even if they do that, it won't fix the ownership problem they have.

 

As far as Escobar....I meant to write Herrera. Oh, well.

 

 

If I'm going to do anything, it's going to be watching the NL teams with lots of young talent like J4L has been doing. There's nobody I enjoy watching on the Royals, other than Alex Gordon all-around, Butler hitting and Escobar defensively. Shields is a quality pitcher, other than that, they're about as boring as the White Sox.

 

Growing up, during the 1980's/90's, the Cardinals were always my NL team, but I don't write about them very much here because it's not interesting to cheer for a model organization.

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Yeah, another post that doesn't back your argument but just changes the subject. Great.

 

For reference:

2010:

Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos and Joe Testa (starting catcher)

Kyle Farnsworth and Rick Ankiel for Tim Collins, Gregor Blanco and Jesse Chavez (two pros, one better than the one they traded in Collins)

Octavio Dotel for James MacDonald and Andrew Lambo (inning logger with MacDonald and Lambo is having a great year in AAA)

2011:

Mike Adams for Joseph Wieland and Robert Erlin (both top ten prospects for SD)

Brad Ziegler for Brandon Allen and Jordan Noberto (Allen is a bust but was a good pick up and Noberto gave Oakland a great year in the pen last year)

Koji Uehara for Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter (Davis second best hitter in baseball to this point)

2012:

Brad Lincoln for Travis Snider (reclamation project)

 

Keep in mind, signing relievers to short contracts minimizes your liability and if you pick the right one (something the Sox seem to do well) you have someone producing for you and another asset to trade. Do you think we will get anything for Crain? Signing RPs not only makes your bullpen better but it lines you up with other options.

 

Except the White Sox never have excelled in these trades.

 

What have we got back in return when we dumped Javy or Swisher? Santos? Teahen and Jackson? Quentin?

 

 

As I said previously, 2010 and 2011 are worlds away from the current market for high ceiling cost-controlled players when there's a cap placed on the June draft as well as signing international players.

 

We can cite Humber, Santos, Quentin, Jenks, Contreras, DeAza, Loaiza, Quintana and MANY others who we've "stolen" from other organizations, but almost no examples where we're trading our older veterans and getting anything of quality back in return, and this goes all the way back to 2001 and 2002.

 

Theoretically, it should be the same principle as a Borchard/Thornton, Gillaspie/Soptic or Marte and Yan for Matt Guerrier deal. But it hasn't worked out that way in reality.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Except the White Sox never have excelled in these trades.

 

What have we got back in return when we dumped Javy or Swisher? Santos? Teahen and Jackson? Quentin?

 

 

As I said previously, 2010 and 2011 are worlds away from the current market for high ceiling cost-controlled players when there's a cap placed on the June draft as well as signing international players.

 

We can cite Humber, Santos, Quentin, Jenks, Contreras, DeAza, Loaiza, Quintana and MANY others who we've "stolen" from other organizations, but almost no examples where we're trading our older veterans and getting anything of quality back in return, and this goes all the way back to 2001 and 2002.

 

Theoretically, it should be the same principle as a Borchard/Thornton, Gillaspie/Soptic or Marte and Yan for Matt Guerrier deal. But it hasn't worked out that way in reality.

 

So you insist the way to go is dump all your good veterans and play for 2018, then on the other hand say historically the Sox get very little for their veterans. Unlike Marty, I know you actually enjoy when the Sox win. I don't see how this "plan" makes it happen.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Except the White Sox never have excelled in these trades.

 

What have we got back in return when we dumped Javy or Swisher? Santos? Teahen and Jackson? Quentin?

 

 

As I said previously, 2010 and 2011 are worlds away from the current market for high ceiling cost-controlled players when there's a cap placed on the June draft as well as signing international players.

 

We can cite Humber, Santos, Quentin, Jenks, Contreras, DeAza, Loaiza, Quintana and MANY others who we've "stolen" from other organizations, but almost no examples where we're trading our older veterans and getting anything of quality back in return, and this goes all the way back to 2001 and 2002.

 

Theoretically, it should be the same principle as a Borchard/Thornton, Gillaspie/Soptic or Marte and Yan for Matt Guerrier deal. But it hasn't worked out that way in reality.

Second Freddy trade

Loaiza for Contreras

McCarthy for Danks

Rowand as the head of the Thome package

 

Just off the top fo my head, I'm sure there are a bunch more. The Sox have made a few mistakes (a couple key ones like the Molina deal & missing on Swisher after giving up all the talent) which have made things seem worse than they are.

 

The Sox need to be proactive and you know that. They need to build for the next couple seasons. The only way to do that is to acquire players, whether prospects or unporoven/undervalued MLB players, who are controllable, since you can't sign a FA to fill every need on the field. Those players don't always come for free or close to free ala Q & Gillaspie, some of them we will need to acquire.

 

And BTW we can still keep Rios & Peavy if we make the right moves around them. Crain, Thronton, Lindstrom however are going to have to go, I'd definitely move Alexei also, and I do like the idea of heavily shopping Reed, but not for another prospect who we apparently didn't even attempt to check out before completing the deal, just took someone's word on.

 

If we can get a good looking young 1B & SS in here, and come up with a solid veteran catcher who should play at an average all-around level for another 3-5 years, then things are going to look substantially brighter around here.

[southsider2k5]

Here we go again. Because the Astros, Mariners and Royals have made a bunch of bad draft picks in the top 10 (or bad trades/FA signings), that means the White Sox necessarily must do the same thing.

 

The White Sox are going to have the same revenue whether they lose 86, 88, 90 or 92 games next year.

 

However, the difference between picking 6th in the draft and 10th or 12th can be huge.

 

Losing 86 games is not being competitive or having close to a playoff team...not to MOST White Sox fans.

 

 

I apologize (like Greg) for living in Kansas City for a decade and also paying attention to what's going on with their team. Yost and Moore should be fired, but even if they do that, it won't fix the ownership problem they have.

 

As far as Escobar....I meant to write Herrera. Oh, well.

 

 

If I'm going to do anything, it's going to be watching the NL teams with lots of young talent like J4L has been doing. There's nobody I enjoy watching on the Royals, other than Alex Gordon all-around, Butler hitting and Escobar defensively. Shields is a quality pitcher, other than that, they're about as boring as the White Sox.

 

Growing up, during the 1980's/90's, the Cardinals were always my NL team, but I don't write about them very much here because it's not interesting to cheer for a model organization.

 

 

You are missing the broader point there. Historically this radical rebuilding plans don't work.

[Chicago White Sox]

Alright, I thought we could get some actual discussion going here by looking at the big deadlines deals from last year:

 

 

Giants acquire RF Hunter Pence from the Phillies for C Tommy Joseph (BA #2), RF Nate Schierholtz, & RHP Seth Rosen.

 

Dodgers acquire CF Shane Victorino from the Phillies for RHP Josh Lindblom (BA #8) & RHP Ethan Martin.

 

Angels acquire SP Zach Greinke from Brewers for SS Jean Segura (BA #2), RHP Johnny Hellweg (BA #4), & RHP Ariel Pena (BA #9).

 

Rangers acquire SP Ryan Dempster from the Cubs for IF Carlos Villanueva (BA #9) & RHP Kyle Hendricks.

 

Tigers acquire SP Anibal Sanchez, IF Omar Infante & 39th pick in 2013 MLB draft for RHP Jacob Turner (BA #1), C Rob Brantly (BA #7), LHP Brian Flynn, & 73rd pick in 2013 MLB draft.

 

Braves acquire SP Paul Maholm & LF Reed Johnson from for RHP Arodys Vizcaino (BA # 2) & RHP Jaye Chapman.

 

Pirates acquire SP Wandy Rodriguez from the Astros for CF Robbie Grossman (BA #8), LHP Colton Cain, & LHP Rudy Owens.

 

Blue Jays acquire SP J.A. Happ, RHP Brandon Lyon, & RHP David Carpenter from the Astros for RHP Francisco Cordero, OF Ben Francisco, RHP Asher Wojciechowski (BA #10), C Carlos Perez, LHP David Rollins, RHP Joseph Musgrove, & RHP Kevin Comer.

 

Reds acquire CL Jonathon Broxton from Royals for RHP J.C. Sulbaran (BA #9) & LHP Donnie Joseph.

 

Cardinals acquire RHP Edward Mujica from Marlins for 3B Zachary Cox (BA #4).

 

Dodgers acquire RHP Brandon League from Mariners for RHP Logan Bawcom & CF Leon Landry.

 

Dodgers acquire SS Hanley Ramirez & LHP Randy Choate from Marlins for RHP Nathan Eovaldi (BA #3) & RHP Scott McGough.

[caulfield12]

You are missing the broader point there. Historically this radical rebuilding plans don't work.

 

 

I think they should deal Peavy, if they get the right return. If not, hold him into the offseason or June/July 2014 again, knowing you're likely to get less back.

 

I'm 50/50 about keeping Ramirez and Rios.

 

Without Ramirez and Rios, the chances of competing in 2014 dwindle to nearly zero.

 

We can still make a legitimate argument that free agency OR trades will help to improve the offense enough to be competitive with a rotation of Sale/Danks/Quintana/Axelrod/Santiago/Johnson.

 

That leaves the bullpen a crapshoot that could go either way...

[caulfield12]

So you insist the way to go is dump all your good veterans and play for 2018, then on the other hand say historically the Sox get very little for their veterans. Unlike Marty, I know you actually enjoy when the Sox win. I don't see how this "plan" makes it happen.

 

 

Insist is not the right word.

 

Being open to the possibility...with Ramirez and Rios, as well as DeAza (and that return will be fairly negligible).

 

Where the main argument resides is about what to do with Peavy.

 

 

 

And there's nothing to be done for or with Viciedo, Beckham and Flowers right now. You ride it out for the remainder of the season, particularly in the cases of Gordon and Dayan.

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[The Ultimate Champion]

I think they should deal Peavy, if they get the right return. If not, hold him into the offseason or June/July 2014 again, knowing you're likely to get less back.

 

I'm 50/50 about keeping Ramirez and Rios.

 

Without Ramirez and Rios, the chances of competing in 2014 dwindle to nearly zero.

 

We can still make a legitimate argument that free agency OR trades will help to improve the offense enough to be competitive with a rotation of Sale/Danks/Quintana/Axelrod/Santiago/Johnson.

 

That leaves the bullpen a crapshoot that could go either way...

Greinke was traded for 2 SS who I would take for the future, Alcides Escobar & Jean Segura

 

The Shin Soo Choo deal involved Didi Gregorius as the main piece for the DBacks, and I'd take him too.

 

Rios should bring in a return similar to Choo & for Peavy we should ask for a return similar to the Greinke deals. If we get a SS in one deal and a young run producer in another, then you're talking about shaving at least $48.5M off the payroll from 2014+ which should allow us to spend in another area. Let's say we get an MLB SS + an MLB corner OF/1B plus a couple prospects. Then maybe over the offseason we take some of our prospects and acquire someone like Swisher was in 2008 (only not a douche) who is MLB proven & locked into a team-friendly deal covering his arb years. Add a couple value FA signings and we've turned 3 players plus their payroll space into a new 3+ year core of players.

 

Easier said than done of course. We need to make the right moves & identify the right players.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Insist is not the right word.

 

Being open to the possibility...with Ramirez and Rios, as well as DeAza (and that return will be fairly negligible).

 

Where the main argument resides is about what to do with Peavy.

 

 

 

And there's nothing to be done for or with Viciedo, Beckham and Flowers right now. You ride it out for the remainder of the season, particularly in the cases of Gordon and Dayan.

At this point DeAza might bring back someone with a really high ceiling in the low minors, not necessarily much proven MLB value, but if you deal DeAza you do it to open up CF I think.

 

Both DeAza & Gordon could be candidates for 3 year extensions after the offseason if those players were amenable to friendly contracts. Both players have been so close to falling off the radar completely that maybe they would take some guaranteed money & then the Sox would have a little more wiggle room knowing that they have some cost certainty & a couple extra pieces to move around (particularly DeAza in LF/CF).

[caulfield12]

Greinke was traded for 2 SS who I would take for the future, Alcides Escobar & Jean Segura

 

The Shin Soo Choo deal involved Didi Gregorius as the main piece for the DBacks, and I'd take him too.

 

Rios should bring in a return similar to Choo & for Peavy we should ask for a return similar to the Greinke deals. If we get a SS in one deal and a young run producer in another, then you're talking about shaving at least $48.5M off the payroll from 2014+ which should allow us to spend in another area. Let's say we get an MLB SS + an MLB corner OF/1B plus a couple prospects. Then maybe over the offseason we take some of our prospects and acquire someone like Swisher was in 2008 (only not a douche) who is MLB proven & locked into a team-friendly deal covering his arb years. Add a couple value FA signings and we've turned 3 players plus their payroll space into a new 3+ year core of players.

 

Easier said than done of course. We need to make the right moves & identify the right players.

 

I don't think Peavy is viewed quite in the same category as Greinke, but he at least is under team control for 1 1/2 years at a relatively affordable salary, vis a vis the price of pitching on the free agency market. A lot of teams are going to shy away until he proves he can throw 92-93-94 MPH again, pain free.

 

I'm also not sure which prospects are going to have more value to other organizations than they do to us?

 

Erik Johnson would be the main one, but relief arms like Daniel Webb are better left to mature in our system. Nobody's going to give us much for Carlos Sanchez or Phegley. Trayce Thompson still is around 1 1/2 to 2 seasons away. Mitchell and Walker have negligible or zero value. After that, you have Beck and Snodgress and a bunch of ? marks with talent like Hansen or Olacio or Bassitt.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

So you insist the way to go is dump all your good veterans and play for 2018, then on the other hand say historically the Sox get very little for their veterans. Unlike Marty, I know you actually enjoy when the Sox win. I don't see how this "plan" makes it happen.

 

I think I need a restraining order issued against you Dick Allen. You can't stop harassing me.

[caulfield12]

At this point DeAza might bring back someone with a really high ceiling in the low minors, not necessarily much proven MLB value, but if you deal DeAza you do it to open up CF I think.

 

Both DeAza & Gordon could be candidates for 3 year extensions after the offseason if those players were amenable to friendly contracts. Both players have been so close to falling off the radar completely that maybe they would take some guaranteed money & then the Sox would have a little more wiggle room knowing that they have some cost certainty & a couple extra pieces to move around (particularly DeAza in LF/CF).

 

 

You would do that even taking into consideration DeAza's K rate, lowered OBP, baserunning blunders, inability to play CF (or even LF now) competently and his propensity for swinging for the fences this season?

 

I think if they can't trade him, they'll bring him back for one more year simply because Thompson and Hawkins aren't close to being ready...and also assuming they don't want to spend money to bring in the likes of Curtis Granderson via free agency.

 

With Beckham, I actually think I'd be more amenable to a two year deal....but not 3-4. There needs to be SOMEONE for the fans to identify with, even if it's a fallen idol.

 

 

 

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

I don't think Peavy is viewed quite in the same category as Greinke, but he at least is under team control for 1 1/2 years at a relatively affordable salary, vis a vis the price of pitching on the free agency market. A lot of teams are going to shy away until he proves he can throw 92-93-94 MPH again, pain free.

Agree.

 

However with Peavy you have the very real loyalty factor + the competitiveness & leadership. You don't want Greinke's flaky ass leading anyone anywhere, and you knew with him he was going to sign somewhere where they kissed his ass and gave him a ton of money. As a result, teams weren't going to be willing to give up major packages unless they thought they were deep-pocketed ass kissers themselves, like the Angels, so there weren't going to be too many major suitors. Peavy is appealing to everyone if he's healthy. The rib thing is what it is at this point, but if for some reason people want to low ball us on Peavy, keep Peavy & get him a 4th year on his deal, because he's certainly not someone we need to "get rid of" and exactly the type of player you like to have leading your pitching staff both during the season & into the playoffs.

[caulfield12]

I think I need a restraining order issued against you Dick Allen. You can't stop harassing me.

 

 

There's no such thing as an internet/message board "restraining order."

 

Good try.

 

Maybe management will create a new policy for your unique situation.

[The Ultimate Champion]

You would do that even taking into consideration DeAza's K rate, lowered OBP, baserunning blunders, inability to play CF (or even LF now) competently and his propensity for swinging for the fences this season?

 

I think if they can't trade him, they'll bring him back for one more year simply because Thompson and Hawkins aren't close to being ready...and also assuming they don't want to spend money to bring in the likes of Curtis Granderson via free agency.

 

With Beckham, I actually think I'd be more amenable to a two year deal....but not 3-4. There needs to be SOMEONE for the fans to identify with, even if it's a fallen idol.

I'm not sure Beckham would sign such a short term deal.

 

DeAza I'd want on something like a Keppinger deal. Give him the guaranteed money but you're paying him to be a really good 4th OF & hoping he outperforms it. I'd try to get him on the type of deal that doesn't hurt much if you have to eat it, but is also worth something decent should he perform decently & you want to move him later to clear CF for someone more long-term.