You're Hahn, who are you looking to trade first?

[caulfield12]

I'm not sure Beckham would sign such a short term deal.

 

DeAza I'd want on something like a Keppinger deal. Give him the guaranteed money but you're paying him to be a really good 4th OF & hoping he outperforms it. I'd try to get him on the type of deal that doesn't hurt much if you have to eat it, but is also worth something decent should he perform decently & you want to move him later to clear CF for someone more long-term.

 

Don't love creating these $3-4-5 million quasi starters.

 

We've learned that lesson the hard way with Teahen, Thornton and now Keppinger.

 

Who would be the starter in CFer, in that scenario?

 

Certainly not Trayce Thompson.

[Kyyle23]

I think I need a restraining order issued against you Dick Allen. You can't stop harassing me.

 

There is no crying in baseball

[Marty34]

There is no crying in baseball

 

Dick Allen just can't let me be. I find it troubling.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Don't love creating these $3-4-5 million quasi starters.

 

We've learned that lesson the hard way with Teahen, Thornton and now Keppinger.

 

Who would be the starter in CFer, in that scenario?

 

Certainly not Trayce Thompson.

If you give DeAza guaranteed money & buy out his arb years + a FA year you certainly don't pay him like an average starting MLB OFer, unless that year is the last year of the deal & there is a team option or a vesting option based on PA. You have DeAza start but you want to pay him under what you feel his performance would be, which is the whole point.

 

Trayce is Joe Borchard Jr. until proven otherwise. I wouldn't think of him as a Sox starter unless he forces his way into the mix. Target someone else for CF who isn't going to K 600 times in a season & hope Trayce is a winning lottery ticket somewhere down the line.

 

DeAza is a placeholder here, which is why having him at a solid price & at several seasons of control is a good thing. He answers a question for you (you can start him somewhere) but he also gives you the flexibility to seek out an athletic & perhaps lighter hitting CFer and/or a more powerful corner OF type.

 

Also I'm not sure what was wrong with any deal we've ever given Thornton. He's given us terrific value above his pay for a long time, and even the fallen off/lesser Matt Thornton still is a pretty good lefty reliever even if some people want to s*** on him.

[elrockinMT]

We should be trading Konerko, Dunn, Peavy, Keppinger, Flowers or Gimenez, Thornton and Gillaspie too, Get some prospects and hope we can compete in two or three years ... maybe

[elrockinMT]

Dick Allen just can't let me be. I find it troubling.

 

 

Let's get an investigation going

[Chicago White Sox]

People worried that we won't get a lot for our guys at the deadline should look at last year's deals.

 

Hunter Pence had a .794 OPS with the Phillies when he was dealt and had one year remaining on his deal. Alex Rios has an .841 OPS and has one year left on his deal plus an option year, both at affordable rates. The Phillies were able to land the Giant's #2 prospect coming into the 2012 season. If Rios is the best bat available at the deadline, he should net something similar IMO.

 

Peavy has been incredible this season up until his last two starts. Given that he's had success in both leagues, his market should be huge if healthy. I dont think he'll net a Zach Greinke package, but look at what the Tigers gave up in the Anibal Sanchez deal. Both of those guys were heading into free agency, while Peavy has another year on his deal plus an option, both at affordable rates. High-end pitching is always expensive at the deadline, but teams should be willing to pay a premium for a guy like Peavy if the alternative is a rental player. It's all going to come down to his health though.

 

Crain should be one of the top relievers on the market if not the #1. He is rental but almost every contender should be looking for relief pitching. He should command a very good prospect if Hahn plays his hand right.

[southsider2k5]

Don't love creating these $3-4-5 million quasi starters.

 

We've learned that lesson the hard way with Teahen, Thornton and now Keppinger.

 

Who would be the starter in CFer, in that scenario?

 

Certainly not Trayce Thompson.

 

when we start trading off players, who exactly do you think is going to be playing for us? The Jared Mitchells and Thompsons of the world are next in line. These are the guys everyone is rooting to see when they want to trade off players.

[caulfield12]

when we start trading off players, who exactly do you think is going to be playing for us? The Jared Mitchells and Thompsons of the world are next in line. These are the guys everyone is rooting to see when they want to trade off players.

 

 

Well, playing Mitchell and Walker over DeAza makes no sense, either, because both of those guys don't even belong as 5th outfielders at this point.

 

That said...I wouldn't be opposed to trying Mitchell just to see if it lights a spark.

 

It can't get any worse than hitting .143 combined between Charlotte and BIRM.

 

 

With Walker, they should wait at least until September and see where he is.

 

Playing Thompson this season at the big league level, unless he goes on a huge tear for 2-3 months, would be lunacy.

 

We're already writing off Mitchell/Walker, that's fine, but Thompson/Hawkins/Viciedo, at least 2 of those guys have to become regulars on the 2015-16 teams for all that outfield attention to be considered a success.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Well, playing Mitchell and Walker over DeAza makes no sense, either, because both of those guys don't even belong as 5th outfielders at this point.

 

That said...I wouldn't be opposed to trying Mitchell just to see if it lights a spark.

 

It can't get any worse than hitting .143 combined between Charlotte and BIRM.

 

 

With Walker, they should wait at least until September and see where he is.

 

Playing Thompson this season at the big league level, unless he goes on a huge tear for 2-3 months, would be lunacy.

 

We're already writing off Mitchell/Walker, that's fine, but Thompson/Hawkins/Viciedo, at least 2 of those guys have to become regulars on the 2015-16 teams for all that outfield attention to be considered a success.

Why on Earth is Walker being written off? He's a raw player who, at best, ought to be coming close by 2015. He's a 22 year old making the jump to AA which is the biggest jump made in the minors...and OMG he's not destroying the world immediately!

[southsider2k5]

Dick Allen just can't let me be. I find it troubling.

 

With all due respect, what do you expect? When you make outrageous statements, refuse to back them up, and then just keep making more crazy statements, people are going to get on you. For God's sake you were trolling the draft day thread yesterday for no good reason. You aren't the victim here. The victims are the people who have to keep reading this garbage ad naseum.

[southsider2k5]

Well, playing Mitchell and Walker over DeAza makes no sense, either, because both of those guys don't even belong as 5th outfielders at this point.

 

That said...I wouldn't be opposed to trying Mitchell just to see if it lights a spark.

 

It can't get any worse than hitting .143 combined between Charlotte and BIRM.

 

 

With Walker, they should wait at least until September and see where he is.

 

Playing Thompson this season at the big league level, unless he goes on a huge tear for 2-3 months, would be lunacy.

 

We're already writing off Mitchell/Walker, that's fine, but Thompson/Hawkins/Viciedo, at least 2 of those guys have to become regulars on the 2015-16 teams for all that outfield attention to be considered a success.

 

According to the rebuilding formula, De Aza doesn't matter. What matters is guys who could be here when the team is competitive again. Thompson and Mitchell are the exact players that would get jobs in a selloff.

[Balta1701]

According to the rebuilding formula, De Aza doesn't matter. What matters is guys who could be here when the team is competitive again. Thompson and Mitchell are the exact players that would get jobs in a selloff.

I'll say again...I'd hate to move Thompson up this year. We need to be patient with this kid, he's developing exactly as he should be, took a month to get the hang of AA and started putting up good numbers, gradually cutting down on the strikeouts, becoming more consistent, but he's young and belongs in AA this year and AAA next year. Calling him up this year is just asking for him to bust. He might figure it out, but you're asking for him to strike out 40 times in a month and wind up changing his approach if you call him up now.

[southsider2k5]

I'll say again...I'd hate to move Thompson up this year. We need to be patient with this kid, he's developing exactly as he should be, took a month to get the hang of AA and started putting up good numbers, gradually cutting down on the strikeouts, becoming more consistent, but he's young and belongs in AA this year and AAA next year. Calling him up this year is just asking for him to bust. He might figure it out, but you're asking for him to strike out 40 times in a month and wind up changing his approach if you call him up now.

 

Unless you think Blake Tekotte is a guy worth keeping, there really isn't many other guys to talk about.

[Chicago White Sox]

I'll say again...I'd hate to move Thompson up this year. We need to be patient with this kid, he's developing exactly as he should be, took a month to get the hang of AA and started putting up good numbers, gradually cutting down on the strikeouts, becoming more consistent, but he's young and belongs in AA this year and AAA next year. Calling him up this year is just asking for him to bust. He might figure it out, but you're asking for him to strike out 40 times in a month and wind up changing his approach if you call him up now.

Exactly. Thompson & Walker aren't going to replace Rios or De Aza if they get traded. You don't rush top prospects just because you have an opening on the 25 man roster. They'd give Jordan Danks the at-bats and use it as a chance to see what they have in him.

 

And let's hope to god they wouldn't call up Jared Mitchell to fill an opening. When you can't hit AA pitching you'll have no chance with major league pitching.

[fathom]

If the Sox trade Peavy, then Santiago would get his spot in the rotation and E. Johnson would likely be next in line

If the Sox trade De Aza, then Danks probably gets the majority of the playing time the rest of the year in CF to see what he can do

If the Sox trade Rios, then maybe they put De Aza in LF and Viciedo in RF?

If they trade Crain, then Jones and Lindstrom are the set-up men

 

If they start trading these core players, then you can't really worry about the quality of the replacement for this year. Once you give up on a season and unload these key contributors, winning doesn't become important at all. Obviously, if they go into next year with Danks in CF or something along those lines, then it's clearly a rebuilding year.

[fathom]

Exactly. Thompson & Walker aren't going to replace Rios or De Aza if they get traded. You don't rush top prospects just because you have an opening on the 25 man roster. They'd give Jordan Danks the at-bats and use it as a chance to see what they have in him.

 

And let's hope to god they wouldn't call up Jared Mitchell to fill an opening. When you can't hit AA pitching you'll have no chance with major league pitching.

 

I could see them giving Mitchell one final effort to prove he shouldn't be released/traded after the year and call him up to the majors.

[Steve9347]

Looking to trade first? Dunn.

 

Able to trade first? Rios.

 

Not going to be able to move? Dunn, Paulie, injured Peavy

[Balta1701]

Unless you think Blake Tekotte is a guy worth keeping, there really isn't many other guys to talk about.

If the Sox dealt off 2 OF's this year, I'd rather play Wise, Wells, Danks2, and Tekotte than call up either of those guys. I don't care about screwing those guys up.

[fathom]

Looking to trade first? Dunn.

 

Able to trade first? Rios.

 

Not going to be able to move? Dunn, Paulie, injured Peavy

 

I think a team like the Orioles would be willing to take Konerko for not much in return and some salary relief.

[Chicago White Sox]

If the Sox trade Peavy, then Santiago would get his spot in the rotation and E. Johnson would likely be next in line

If the Sox trade De Aza, then Danks probably gets the majority of the playing time the rest of the year in CF to see what he can do

If the Sox trade Rios, then maybe they put De Aza in LF and Viciedo in RF?

If they trade Crain, then Jones and Lindstrom are the set-up men

 

If they start trading these core players, then you can't really worry about the quality of the replacement for this year. Once you give up on a season and unload these key contributors, winning doesn't become important at all. Obviously, if they go into next year with Danks in CF or something along those lines, then it's clearly a rebuilding year.

This is pretty much spot on. To add, I think Simon Castro, Andre Rienzo & Santos Rodriguez have a good chance to get called up for bullpen roles once we trade some pitching. And I personally think they move Lindstrom in addition to Crain & Thornton.

 

What would be interesting to see is how they'd replace Alexei at SS.

[Marty34]

With all due respect, what do you expect? When you make outrageous statements, refuse to back them up, and then just keep making more crazy statements, people are going to get on you. For God's sake you were trolling the draft day thread yesterday for no good reason. You aren't the victim here. The victims are the people who have to keep reading this garbage ad naseum.

 

I don't consider being skeptical about drafting Baseball America's 200th rated prospect in the 3rd round trolling. If you want a forum of happy talk just say so.

 

What outrageous statements have I made? And, with all due respect, you avoid backing up what you say as much as anyone who posts here

[Chicago White Sox]

I could see them giving Mitchell one final effort to prove he shouldn't be released/traded after the year and call him up to the majors.

While I think Mitchell is and will be a bust, I don't think you need release him just yet, especially if you're doing a semi-rebuilding. His tools are still there and he doesn't turn 25 until October I believe. Look at the garbage we have getting everyday at-bats throughout our system. I'll take the 5% chance something suddenly clicks next year and he becomes a useful role player than give those at-bats to another Seth Loman type. Plus he has two option years left, so unless we're hurting for 40 man roster spots, we don't have to rush to a decision on him.

[caulfield12]

Jesus Christ. So the prospects we got in some of our trades didnt pan out. Is that out of the ordinary? You can bring up your off topic rants on random players we used to have but they prove nothing. Hahn is a money guy, sign some RPs to team friendly contracts (not that hard to do as I proved and you failed to prove wrong). Then regardless of our offense, our pitching can perhaps keep us afloat. If July 2014 comes and we are out of it, then you deal them.

 

Scenarios:

1.) Don't sign any relievers and go into the season with the likes of Heath, Marinez, Ommogrosso, Veal, etc. (caulfield's preference). We go with virtual nobodies and have no option to improve the organization.

2.) Let our scouts do their homework and Hahn work his magic and sign 1-3 established relievers and/or project relievers. (My preference)

2a) We win and our bullpen isn't a trainwreck like you want.

2b) We lose and we have assets to trade to reinvigorate the farm or even a ML ready player.

 

PLEASE others step in and say what you would prefer because my points don't seem to be getting to caulfield.

 

 

I'll give you the bullpen I'd go into 2014 with...

 

Reed traded (ONE cheap FA signing OR salary dump like Heath Bell OR Nate Jones, possibly Webb as closer when his secondary stuff is better)

Crain/Lindstrom/Thornton traded

Santos Rodriguez or Charlie Leesman

Henry Rodriguez

Simon Castro or Andre Rienzo (or both)

Definitely, at least one power arm we're getting back from all the trades that won't fit into the rotation picture

Dylan Axelrod or Erik Johnson

 

There's NOBODY on that list that we already know is going to fail eventually or is fatally flawed....like Heath, Marinez, Omogrosso, Troncoso, Veal.

 

It's not likely to be a very good bullpen, but that's not important at all if you trade Rios, Reed, Ramirez, Peavy, etc.

 

If they're legitimately trying to keep the team together and give it a shot at competing with Peavy and the entire offense overhauled (and not sure how you do that without making a huge number of trades this season, spending $30-50 million on free agents or dealing Erik Johnson)...that changes the storyline.

 

This whole idea of a cheap/homegrown pen is 100% based on the tear down of everything but the core of our future starting rotation.

 

In that scenario, 2015 and certainly 2016 would be the years where you'd have to start worrying about save success ratios and veterans compiling holds.

 

And we have NO IDEA if we're going to be able to get the return we want on Rios/Reed/Ramirez/Peavy...so there's always that caveat, we continue to hold all of them. The only thing that IS CERTAIN is the need to deal Crain/Thornton/Lindstrom this season.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2013 by caulfield12

[fathom]

I'll give you the bullpen I'd go into 2014 with...

 

Reed traded (ONE cheap FA signing OR salary dump like Heath Bell OR Nate Jones, possibly Webb as closer when his secondary stuff is better)

Crain/Lindstrom/Thornton traded

Santos Rodriguez or Charlie Leesman

Henry Rodriguez

Simon Castro or Andre Rienzo (or both)

Definitely, at least one power arm we're getting back from all the trades that won't fit into the rotation picture

Dylan Axelrod or Erik Johnson

 

There's NOBODY on that list that we already know is going to fail eventually or is fatally flawed....like Heath, Marinez, Omogrosso, Troncoso, Veal.

 

It's not likely to be a very good bullpen, but that's not important at all if you trade Rios, Ramirez, Peavy, etc.

 

If they're legitimately trying to keep the team together and give it a shot at competing with Peavy and the entire offense overhauled (and not sure how you do that without making a huge number of trades this season, spending $30-50 million on free agents or dealing Erik Johnson)...that changes the storyline.

 

This whole idea of a cheap/homegrown pen is 100% based on the tear down of everything but the core of our future starting rotation.

 

In that scenario, 2015 and certainly 2016 would be the years where you'd have to start worrying about save success ratios and veterans compiling holds.

 

That might be the worst bullpen ever assembled on paper.