caulfield12 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 01:44 PM) I never said anything about signing Granderson, Morales or trading for Olt to you. It was another poster's post that I went off of. No on around here seems to recognize that Floyd, Konerko and potentially Peavy and Rios We know your scenario, put together the world's s***tiest bullpen and hope we lose a 100 games. I don't think Fathom proved that all. He wants us to be the worst team in baseball so we can get Rodon. Not only is that not going to happen if you are a fan of this team you should not want it to. I don't think he ever said anything about my views on the bullpen either. YOU HAVE IT COMPLETELY BACKWARDS. IF THEY TRADE ALL THEIR VETERAN BULLPEN ARMS, RIOS, RAMIREZ, PEAVY....THEN IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME WHAT THEY DO WITH THE BULLPEN FOR 2014. THE PEN WOULD START WITH REED, JONES AND WEBB. IF THEY DON'T, IT DOES MATTER BECAUSE A WEAK BULLPEN WILL KILL THE CONFIDENCE OF ANY TEAM TRYING TO LEARN HOW TO WIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 01:44 PM) I never said anything about signing Granderson, Morales or trading for Olt to you. It was another poster's post that I went off of. No on around here seems to recognize that Floyd, Konerko and potentially Peavy and Rios We know your scenario, put together the world's s***tiest bullpen and hope we lose a 100 games. I don't think Fathom proved that all. He wants us to be the worst team in baseball so we can get Rodon. Not only is that not going to happen if you are a fan of this team you should not want it to. I don't think he ever said anything about my views on the bullpen either. YOU HAVE IT COMPLETELY BACKWARDS. IF THEY TRADE ALL THEIR VETERAN BULLPEN ARMS, RIOS, RAMIREZ, PEAVY....THEN IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME WHAT THEY DO WITH THE BULLPEN FOR 2014. THE PEN WOULD START WITH REED, JONES AND WEBB. IF THEY DON'T, IT DOES MATTER BECAUSE A WEAK BULLPEN WILL KILL THE CONFIDENCE OF ANY TEAM TRYING TO LEARN HOW TO WIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Back to topic, if anybody wants Rios I'd trade him first. Also I would release Dunn and go from there. Those are my first two moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 08:44 PM) I never said anything about signing Granderson, Morales or trading for Olt to you. It was another poster's post that I went off of. No on around here seems to recognize that Floyd, Konerko and potentially Peavy and Rios We know your scenario, put together the world's s***tiest bullpen and hope we lose a 100 games. I don't think Fathom proved that all. He wants us to be the worst team in baseball so we can get Rodon. Not only is that not going to happen if you are a fan of this team you should not want it to. I don't think he ever said anything about my views on the bullpen either. I don't WANT them to be the worst, all I was saying is that if you're going to lose 90-95 games, then an extra 5 more games lost won't hurt anyone I don't think there's a chance in hell the Sox go full rebuild this offseason, especially since rebuilds usually mean you trade your high-priced veterans and this team's strong starting pitching is almost all young, cheap performers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 01:50 PM) Wow caulfield, not only did you claim he made post against my argument, Fathom made a post remarkably similar to my view points! First, it's viewpoint. Next, he wasn't agreeing with you. He was disagreeing with the point about how bad the bullpen should actually be. And he was arguing essentially that spending a extra $10-12 million in that area (and hoping to punch those lottery tickets in July) isn't worth the difference in first round draft position between a 100 and 90 loss team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 02:05 PM) IF we sell off, we are not adding Curtis Granderson in the off season. Depends what were selling for. If they're trading for young, cheap, impact players that should be ready next year then why not? Like say Rios for Olt and Peavy for another position player who will be ready to make an impact this/next year then go for it. If we can turn Peavy and Rios into Olt, Granderson, Morales, and another key bat then why not? I realize it's not a sure thing we can get both Granderson and Morales to sign Edited June 8, 2013 by 2nd_city_saint787 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 04:32 PM) Something we have to keep in mind: Contracts coming off the books: Konerko -13.5 million Floyd - 9.5 million Crain - 4.5 million Thornton - 5.5 million (1 mil buyout) Wise - 700k Lindstrom - 2.3 million (500k buyout) That's 36 million off million off the books. We could also possibly trade Rios (13 million) and Peavy (14.5). If we trade BOTH Peavy and Rios that's 63.5 million off the books. If we trade just Peavy that's 50.5 million off the books. If we trade just Rios that's 52 million off the books. There is money to be spent. And just so it's said again, throw in the $25 million additional from the new national TV deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 04:41 PM) Trusting you on that number but add 25 million to the current payroll and we're 144 million. Hypothetically speaking, say we keep Rios and Peavy and let all the FAs walk. Payroll 119 million - 36 million in expiring contracts (PK, Floyd, Thornton, Crain, Lindstrom and Wise) = 83 million in guarenteed contracts. Factor in +10 million in increases and arbitration and we are at 93 million. Sounds insane but that could leave 50 million dollars to spend. Hahn was always noted as a money guy too. There will probably be some additional erosion of season tickets following this flop of a season, and that $25 million is going to every team in the league, but yea, there is already a lot of money to spend just by deals ending, and if Peavy is moved (and since we have 6 starters with EJ on the way...someone's got to move), there is a ton of money available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 My goodness, that's a lot of $$....I was thinking we'd need to trade off both Rios and Peavy to make signing Granderson and Morales possible. Looks like they can make that happen regardless.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) My goodness, that's a lot of $$....I was thinking we'd need to trade off both Rios and Peavy to make signing Granderson and Morales possible. Looks like they can make that happen regardless.... The one problem this offseason will be that the Yankees will have like $80 million to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 08:51 PM) The one problem this offseason will be that the Yankees will have like $80 million to spend. Yanks will probably be after Cano and Choo, Cubs after Ellsbury. I know I've said this far too often, but the Sox have to find a way to get more lefties in the lineup that have a better shot against the likes of Verlander, Scherzer, Masterson, etc. It's also one of the reasons I think Viciedo is expendable (for a big haul). Edited June 8, 2013 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Looking a little closer at the names on this poll, I think it is very flawed. The guy that Rick is going to be trying hardest to trade, isn't anywhere on the list. There is a really good chance John Danks is the first guy out of town. His contract only has the next three years at a total of $42.75 million on it. If you can move him for any kind of return, the rotation is way more balanced, and that is a lot of cash to free up. It also doesn't look like you are melting the team down to Cub like standards because you have a built in replacement in Hector Santiago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 09:57 PM) Looking a little closer at the names on this poll, I think it is very flawed. The guy that Rick is going to be trying hardest to trade, isn't anywhere on the list. There is a really good chance John Danks is the first guy out of town. His contract only has the next three years at a total of $42.75 million on it. If you can move him for any kind of return, the rotation is way more balanced, and that is a lot of cash to free up. It also doesn't look like you are melting the team down to Cub like standards because you have a built in replacement in Hector Santiago. I can't imagine a team taking on Danks and that contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 05:11 PM) Agreed. That and Danks hasn't fully recovered yet. You have to be patient with should surgery guys as it takes 12-18 months to fully recover. I think we can start judging Danks about this time next year. I wouldn't be a shocked if he had a season similar to '09 next year. Danks has looked pretty f***ing good today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 04:02 PM) I can't imagine a team taking on Danks and that contract. 3 years at $14.25 per isn't much at all in this day and age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 04:25 PM) 3 years at $14.25 per isn't much at all in this day and age. For a guy coming off major shoulder surgery, it is. Today is nice, but he has to string together a few solid starts and get his stuff back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 06:22 PM) For a guy coming off major shoulder surgery, it is. Today is nice, but he has to string together a few solid starts and get his stuff back. We've got 2 months until the deadline and today was among the best starts we've seen from Danks since 08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 05:25 PM) We've got 2 months until the deadline and today was among the best starts we've seen from Danks since 08. That's pretty much what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Saw the game on WGN. I thought Danksy was darn tootin good. Have a good game and I expected to read posts about trading him and did. Heck all 25 will be gone by July 31st if some have there way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 08:51 PM) Back to topic, if anybody wants Rios I'd trade him first. Also I would release Dunn and go from there. Those are my first two moves. That sounds worse than a white flag trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) If they can clear 100% of Danks' salary, you have to do that. Now how likely this is to happen in the next 2 months, we have no idea. It's fine if he's back with us next year, we need some veteran leadership coming from SOMEWHERE in 2014. We're likely to have a MUCH younger team next season, no matter what happens for the remainder of 2013 (okay, Konerko would be back if he somehow rallied to finish in the Top 10 in the MVP voting, for example). Edited June 9, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 01:51 PM) The one problem this offseason will be that the Yankees will have like $80 million to spend. If everyone on bbileks list comes off and the extra $25M ,we have $88.5M to spend .Find a sucker for Dunn eat half his salary and it's around $95M. Don't expect it all to happen of course. We trade some of those guys above and we're going to take on some salaries but hopefully not much more. And I think we're stuck with Dunn no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 10, 2013 -> 04:09 AM) If everyone on bbileks list comes off and the extra $25M ,we have $88.5M to spend .Find a sucker for Dunn eat half his salary and it's around $95M. Don't expect it all to happen of course. We trade some of those guys above and we're going to take on some salaries but hopefully not much more. And I think we're stuck with Dunn no matter what. No other team is going to pay $7 million to Adam Dunn. If you can get a team to take on $2 mill, it's worth it, because he's largely a sunk cost at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I don't think Peavy or Rios are getting traded because they are both signed for 2014 and it's not in the nature of the Sox to give up on next year. Crain, Thornton, and Lindstrom are the most likely to be out the door. Konerko also if he can start hitting enough to generate any kind of demand. Also DeAza is set to make about 4-6 times as much as Danks or Wise next year so he has to show that he's significantly better than them or ship him out as well. I wouldn't just dump Viciedo but I'd certainly listen if somebody likes him enough to offer a very good prospect in return. I don't think there's value in getting rid of Dunn unless somebody is paying at least 30-40% of what he's still owed, and I don't really see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 General reactions to this thread: 1) Our team is really bad. Do not fear breaking down a bad team. The alternative is remaining bad and getting older. 2) No one wants Paul Konerko right now. Least of all f***ing Arizona. 3) Why are we talking so much about Chris Sale? It's not even a possibility because no GM will risk the assets required to get him on his jerky release. 4) Jesse Crain will not bring back a substantial prospect. Something, yes, but not something exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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