You're Hahn, who are you looking to trade first?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

No other team is going to pay $7 million to Adam Dunn. If you can get a team to take on $2 mill, it's worth it, because he's largely a sunk cost at this point.

Why didn't you just say I agree ?

[caulfield12]

General reactions to this thread:

 

1) Our team is really bad. Do not fear breaking down a bad team. The alternative is remaining bad and getting older.

 

2) No one wants Paul Konerko right now. Least of all f***ing Arizona.

 

3) Why are we talking so much about Chris Sale? It's not even a possibility because no GM will risk the assets required to get him on his jerky release.

 

4) Jesse Crain will not bring back a substantial prospect. Something, yes, but not something exciting.

 

We should be able to get back two Type B prospects in the lower minors (like Jaye/Webb) or another team's 6-12 prospect, depending on the depth of their system.

[witesoxfan]

4) Jesse Crain will not bring back a substantial prospect. Something, yes, but not something exciting.

 

We should be able to get back two Type B prospects in the lower minors (like Jaye/Webb) or another team's 6-12 prospect, depending on the depth of their system.

 

You aren't going to get a prospect in a team's top 5, but even just last year, teams gave up good prospects for rent-a-relievers. The Uehara to Texas comparison isn't bad except that Uehara had 2 years left on his deal. A package similar to that though - a "busted" prospect and a pitcher who projects as a #3-4 - isn't an unreasonable return. Having said prospect turn into one of the best hitters in the majors, on the other hand, is probably a bit of stretch.

 

 

Why didn't you just say I agree ?

 

It's not exactly what you said, but we're on the same page.

[Balta1701]

You aren't going to get a prospect in a team's top 5, but even just last year, teams gave up good prospects for rent-a-relievers. The Uehara to Texas comparison isn't bad except that Uehara had 2 years left on his deal. A package similar to that though - a "busted" prospect and a pitcher who projects as a #3-4 - isn't an unreasonable return. Having said prospect turn into one of the best hitters in the majors, on the other hand, is probably a bit of stretch.

IMO, it would really behoove the White Sox to avoid grabbing pitchers in any trade this year (unless they're buried down in A-ball). Their rotation is stacked and their bullpen may need an extra veteran arm or two next year, but its in a better place than the lineup. If the Sox pick up a starter who can be a #3-#4 starter, he's just going to be stuck at Charlotte next year unless someone gets hurt, and he'd be lucky to be the 2nd option in that case with guys like Johnson and Snodgress around.

[Eminor3rd]

IMO, it would really behoove the White Sox to avoid grabbing pitchers in any trade this year (unless they're buried down in A-ball). Their rotation is stacked and their bullpen may need an extra veteran arm or two next year, but its in a better place than the lineup. If the Sox pick up a starter who can be a #3-#4 starter, he's just going to be stuck at Charlotte next year unless someone gets hurt, and he'd be lucky to be the 2nd option in that case with guys like Johnson and Snodgress around.

 

I agree -- the system needs big bats, even if they are of the lumbering variety. The Konerko era is ending, and Dunn will be out the door as well.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I agree -- the system needs big bats, even if they are of the lumbering variety. The Konerko era is ending, and Dunn will be out the door as well.

 

 

I wonder if the Cubs would be interested in any of the White Sox pitching in return for Dan Vogelbach. Vogelbach can really rake. He is at Low A out at Kane County. I have seen him a few times this year and will again on Sunday. He is definitely a DH though.

[witesoxfan]

IMO, it would really behoove the White Sox to avoid grabbing pitchers in any trade this year (unless they're buried down in A-ball). Their rotation is stacked and their bullpen may need an extra veteran arm or two next year, but its in a better place than the lineup. If the Sox pick up a starter who can be a #3-#4 starter, he's just going to be stuck at Charlotte next year unless someone gets hurt, and he'd be lucky to be the 2nd option in that case with guys like Johnson and Snodgress around.

 

It doesn't necessarily have to be a #3-4 starter. I should have worded it a bit differently in stating that they should be looking for a big talent, busted prospect, and another player with a higher floor, perhaps a strong platoon left handed hitter.

 

I don't mind them looking for big relief arms though either. About the only guy I really think has a good chance of being a major league contributor is Webb. I like Marinez, but I don't think he's going to make it at the MLB level.

[witesoxfan]

I wonder if the Cubs would be interested in any of the White Sox pitching in return for Dan Vogelbach. Vogelbach can really rake. He is at Low A out at Kane County. I have seen him a few times this year and will again on Sunday. He is definitely a DH though.

 

Then you don't want to trade for him. You don't trade for definite DH's when they are in low A.

[Balta1701]

It doesn't necessarily have to be a #3-4 starter. I should have worded it a bit differently in stating that they should be looking for a big talent, busted prospect, and another player with a higher floor, perhaps a strong platoon left handed hitter.

 

I don't mind them looking for big relief arms though either. About the only guy I really think has a good chance of being a major league contributor is Webb. I like Marinez, but I don't think he's going to make it at the MLB level.

That's mostly fine I guess...but if the "Busted prospect" is a starting pitcher, he's not likely to be anywhere near the Sox big league squad next year. They simply have too many starting pitchers as it is. If none of the starters are moved, by next year you start counting Johnson and the team is 7 deep in starters, with more who could fill in if necessary.

 

I'm not sure I'd be mad if they targeted a reliever in a trade, but I'm not sure it's a good target unless there's a can't miss guy. Yes, the Sox are losing Thornton, Crain, and Lindstrom this year...but as others have noted, you still tend to want to have a couple veterans in your pen to help guys like Jones and Reed when they hit a rough patch. Even if the Sox came up with another reliever in a trade, it's not going to change what they are doing in FA all that much (unless Reed is moved). So I wouldn't oppose it, but just keeping things in mind.

[Lillian]

Yanks will probably be after Cano and Choo, Cubs after Ellsbury. I know I've said this far too often, but the Sox have to find a way to get more lefties in the lineup that have a better shot against the likes of Verlander, Scherzer, Masterson, etc. It's also one of the reasons I think Viciedo is expendable (for a big haul).

 

Thank You

Edited June 10, 2013 by Lillian

[elrockinMT]

We can still win this thing

[caulfield12]

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/re...couting-war.ece

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/re...ce-scouting.ece

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/re...outing-team.ece

 

 

Sometimes, one wonders if Ventura is getting 1/2 the advanced scouting information and processing it with his entire coach as well as on a system-wide basis, like this example of the intricate detailed preparation the Red Sox staff does.

 

The fact that they've beaten up almost every rookie pitcher they've faced (12+ ERA for opposing rookie starters this year) shows that they're doing their homework.

 

Not saying the White Sox don't necessarily do it...but you wouldn't know from the hitting results over the last decade plus.

 

Articles like this could be used to support the Phil Rogers thesis that the White Sox aren't working as hard at some elements of the game as other teams...once again, we have no way of knowing how diligently Ventura and the staff are actually working, all we can do is theorize and conjecture based on the on the field results we've been seeing since mid-September, on through spring training, and now into the regular season for 1/3rd of 2013.

 

This is essentially 85% of the same team we had last year that was in first place for much of the season, after all...a team many felt was overachieving their talent level.

 

But these articles reinforce ONE WAY that an organization can quickly turn its fortunes around quickly from one season to the next...and, of course it helps when Buchholz, Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Nava, Ortiz and Salty are playing as well as they have been, it's not like they were lacking in talent in their organization.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[GreatScott82]

I have not read all the posts in this thread but here is what this team needs to do. As a practical fan I know this team has waaaaay too many holes to compete with Detroit this year or even next year with this current roster. The make up of this roster is average- to below average at best. The offense is pretty bad overall and the defense has been embarrassing this year. With that said, this team needs to seriously consider a complete roster overhaul- a true rebuild.

 

I know White Sox management hate that word and I always have loved KW for his aggressive behavior on trying to compete for a title every season. Unfortunately, his aggressiveness has paved the way for a roster with very limited farm talent. We currently have a mix of veterans and some young talent sprinkled in the mix. Meanwhile, guys like Ramirez, Beckham and Flowers were simply overvalued by the organization. But honestly, they are average to below average players at best. Dunn and Konerko have been BAD this year and that trend will continue. Viciedo is the only position player that we need to allow to have more time. He is still pretty young. Rios is a solid player, but the fact that he is our best player tells you just how bad of a state this organization is in.

 

This team needs to a distinct direction. No more of the whole sprinkle young with old and rebuild on the fly style. They have gone with this format the past two seasons and they almost caught lightning in a bottle last year. But this year, it truly has caught up with them. You can't do both... you either need to spend the money and attempt to compete with Detroit OR re-stock the farm and suffer 2-3 poor seasons to acquire high draft picks and re-establish a respectable farm system. I think for the most part, we are all on board with plan B. If a team is losing, at least we would all have the comfort in knowing players are developing down in the farm and at the MLB level.

 

Guys I expect them to move this year: Peavy, Rios, Ramirez, Thorton, Crain, and De Aza. If they can package any of them, you can likely maximize a decent return from a buyer which would be essential. I would love them to get a SS, OF and P prospects in return. The time to move is now Hahn! The days for sitting on your hands are over....

Edited June 12, 2013 by GreatScott82

[caulfield12]

I'm sure someone in the front office is making these calculations right now...

 

The cost of adding free agents to improve the offense for 2014, the expected return if they did almost a full sell-off, the fall in revenue from what they were expecting vs. what they're likely to get for the remainder of the season.....all their cost savings from Konerko, Crain, Thornton and possibly Ramirez and Rios and DeAza being jettisoned, and the $25 million boost coming in.

 

There just aren't very many opposing teams that are going to draw fans to USCF for the remainder of June, so it's not like they're going to have any kind of attendance boost at all to allow for acquisitions where we're basically adding SOME salary and not giving up much in talent (like with Myers/Youk/Liriano).

 

Coming into June, and looking at the upcoming schedule, there was definitely hope (coming off the 9-3 mark and back to .500 before playing the Cubs) that they would be within 1-2-3 games of the Tigers heading into the more difficult waters of July.

 

Right now, at 8 games back, we're right on the cusp of elimination from all serious consideration (3.8%, tied with the Cubs, of all teams) for the post-season and already playing for next year. Not only that, but there's a bunch of competition in our own division we'd have to leap over...this isn't 2003 where you just knew the Royals were going to fall back to the pack. Unless at least two starting pitchers for the Tigers go down to injury, they're going to win the division. They can afford to even lose Verlander OR Scherzer, because Smyly's actually been their best pitcher the past 4-6 weeks, and he got a lot of valuable experience starting in 2012. We simply can't count on injuries and Valverde sucking again to get back to within hailing distance.

Edited June 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

I have not read all the posts in this thread but here is what this team needs to do. As a practical fan I know this team has waaaaay too many holes to compete with Detroit this year or even next year with this current roster. The make up of this roster is average- to below average at best. The offense is pretty bad overall and the defense has been embarrassing this year. With that said, this team needs to seriously consider a complete roster overhaul- a true rebuild.

 

I know White Sox management hate that word and I always have loved KW for his aggressive behavior on trying to compete for a title every season. Unfortunately, his aggressiveness has paved the way for a roster with very limited farm talent. We currently have a mix of veterans and some young talent sprinkled in the mix. Meanwhile, guys like Ramirez, Beckham and Flowers were simply overvalued by the organization. But honestly, they are average to below average players at best. Dunn and Konerko have been BAD this year and that trend will continue. Viciedo is the only position player that we need to allow to have more time. He is still pretty young. Rios is a solid player, but the fact that he is our best player tells you just how bad of a state this organization is in.

 

This team needs to a distinct direction. No more of the whole sprinkle young with old and rebuild on the fly style. They have gone with this format the past two seasons and they almost caught lightning in a bottle last year. But this year, it truly has caught up with them. You can't do both... you either need to spend the money and attempt to compete with Detroit OR re-stock the farm and suffer 2-3 poor seasons to acquire high draft picks and re-establish a respectable farm system. I think for the most part, we are all on board with plan B. If a team is losing, at least we would all have the comfort in knowing players are developing down in the farm and at the MLB level.

 

Guys I expect them to move this year: Peavy, Rios, Ramirez, Thorton, Crain, and De Aza. If they can package any of them, you can likely maximize a decent return from a buyer which would be essential. I would love them to get a SS, OF and P prospects in return. The time to move is now Hahn! The days for sitting on your hands are over....

 

The Sox currently have the 6th best ERA in the league and the 4th best starters ERA in the league with what is still a very young pitching staff. A full blown rebuild is absolutely irrational and brash. You make small moves - Crain and Thornton are unlikely to be brought back, so they can be dealt, and if a good package for Peavy or De Aza/Rios, you can make that as well - but tearing this thing apart would be about the worst possible thing this franchise could do right now. It would be worse than giving out a $100 million contract to a player right now, and they wouldn't do that either.

 

They need to determine their two biggest holes offensively going into next season and address those in the offseason. If you can fix three of them, all the better. At the very minimum, the Sox will have a new 1B next year, and they could very well add 3-4 more new pieces on top of that too and it wouldn't hurt.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Draft's over, no more excuses. 29 other teams need to know today that we're selling and that we're taking offers & dispatching scouts now. No more bulls***, you lost the offseason, you piddled around, now get busy.

[witesoxfan]

Draft's over, no more excuses. 29 other teams need to know today that we're selling and that we're taking offers & dispatching scouts now. No more bulls***, you lost the offseason, you piddled around, now get busy.

 

Again, there's still no real point in doing this so early when there's plenty of time to get these trades finished up after the break. You can send scouts out to get info on guys, but beyond that they are going to wait to make any trades.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The Sox currently have the 6th best ERA in the league and the 4th best starters ERA in the league with what is still a very young pitching staff. A full blown rebuild is absolutely irrational and brash. You make small moves - Crain and Thornton are unlikely to be brought back, so they can be dealt, and if a good package for Peavy or De Aza/Rios, you can make that as well - but tearing this thing apart would be about the worst possible thing this franchise could do right now. It would be worse than giving out a $100 million contract to a player right now, and they wouldn't do that either.

 

They need to determine their two biggest holes offensively going into next season and address those in the offseason. If you can fix three of them, all the better. At the very minimum, the Sox will have a new 1B next year, and they could very well add 3-4 more new pieces on top of that too and it wouldn't hurt.

 

 

This is absolutely correct. I think Crain and Thornton definitely get traded. I would not be surprised if Alexei was traded either. You can't trade guys just to trade them. Always ask yourself "Does this trade get you closer to the eventual goal of winning a world series"? Lindstrom and DeAza could go as well but would not bring much in return. I have speculated about the Pirates as a team that may be interested in Ramirez. The pitching is too good to have a full scale rebuild just to have one. I would trade Rios or Peavy if there were a maximum return but there probably will not be. I would not just trade Rios and Peavy to do it though. This organization needs to start making good trades and maximizing their return

[southsider2k5]

This is absolutely correct. I think Crain and Thornton definitely get traded. I would not be surprised if Alexei was traded either. You can't trade guys just to trade them. Always ask yourself "Does this trade get you closer to the eventual goal of winning a world series"? Lindstrom and DeAza could go as well but would not bring much in return. I have speculated about the Pirates as a team that may be interested in Ramirez. The pitching is too good to have a full scale rebuild just to have one. I would trade Rios or Peavy if there were a maximum return but there probably will not be. I would not just trade Rios and Peavy to do it though. This organization needs to start making good trades and maximizing their return

 

Odds are that any trade where you are trading top notch MLB talent for prospects isn't going to help you get closer to the world series.

[The Ginger Kid]

I have no idea why you would trade anyone now. Are teams in contention more likely to overpay the closer you get to the deadline?

[cabiness42]

I have no idea why you would trade anyone now. Are teams in contention more likely to overpay the closer you get to the deadline?

 

That kind of rational thought will not fly here, pal.

 

[southsider2k5]

I have no idea why you would trade anyone now. Are teams in contention more likely to overpay the closer you get to the deadline?

 

We are just getting to the point where teams are starting to think about dealing players. It is still REALLY early though.

[hogan873]

Realistically, does any team take a look at Dunn? If he continues to hit well and gets his average up to .200, along with 25+ HRs by the deadline it's possible I guess. But it would be a salary dump for next year plus I'm sure the Sox would have to send some money. Who knows though?

[witesoxfan]

Realistically, does any team take a look at Dunn? If he continues to hit well and gets his average up to .200, along with 25+ HRs by the deadline it's possible I guess. But it would be a salary dump for next year plus I'm sure the Sox would have to send some money. Who knows though?

 

If you get anyone to take him on, you are pretty much giving him away at this point. I don't think it's likely, but a team with a bit of money who needs someone at 1B or DH might consider it. About the only team I can think of at this point is the Yankees, and I have strong doubts about that.

[Chicago White Sox]

If you get anyone to take him on, you are pretty much giving him away at this point. I don't think it's likely, but a team with a bit of money who needs someone at 1B or DH might consider it. About the only team I can think of at this point is the Yankees, and I have strong doubts about that.

I assume by "giving him away" you mean the Sox eating most of his salary and getting nothing back in return. That's about the best case scenario for us and I still doubt a contender would be interested in him. Dunn's just way too streaky and when he's off he's epically bad. I can't think of a team with a hole at DH who has enough other offensive problems to take gamble on him.