You're Hahn, who are you looking to trade first?

[Balta1701]

I assume by "giving him away" you mean the Sox eating most of his salary and getting nothing back in return. That's about the best case scenario for us and I still doubt a contender would be interested in him. Dunn's just way too streaky and when he's off he's epically bad. I can't think of a team with a hole at DH who has enough other offensive problems to take gamble on him.

There's zero reason for the Sox to do that either this year or next. At worst he's a sunk cost. If someone's willing to take on $15 million out of what remains on his deal, or give the Sox something back that's useful long term if the Sox pick up even more money...then you can talk.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I have no idea why you would trade anyone now. Are teams in contention more likely to overpay the closer you get to the deadline?

No, they are more likely to give up more at an earlier date in order to obtain a rental for a longer period. Waiting until later allows more time for other teams to unload their players & get something while teams like the Sox dick around & end up with 2 teams in on the likes of Crain on July 29th rather than 10 teams in on him now. Also if you know you're definitely selling (and unless the Sox are brain dead they already know that) then there are likely to be more teams thinking they have a shot at the wildcard spot now than at the end of July.

 

The Sox have no problem buying in June, and they should have no problem selling in June. Hahn needs to get on the ball already.

[The Ultimate Champion]

There's zero reason for the Sox to do that either this year or next. At worst he's a sunk cost. If someone's willing to take on $15 million out of what remains on his deal, or give the Sox something back that's useful long term if the Sox pick up even more money...then you can talk.

Dunn for Smoak straight up, Mariners pick up $1M this year and $2M next year with the Sox paying the difference. Would you do it? I would. They'd at least have someone to plug in to take a shot on. As it is, there are 2 moves to make re: Dunn, either you get a team like the Dodgers (and maybe only them) to take on his salary in exchange for a good player, saving them from having to trade anyone of value, or you dump Dunn and eat his deal yourself. You only do #2 though if you have someone to plug in who is worth playing. Dumping Dunn for ex. and plugging in Casper Wells does nothing, and you actually get worse offensively.

[Balta1701]

Dunn for Smoak straight up, Mariners pick up $1M this year and $2M next year with the Sox paying the difference. Would you do it? I would. They'd at least have someone to plug in to take a shot on. As it is, there are 2 moves to make re: Dunn, either you get a team like the Dodgers (and maybe only them) to take on his salary in exchange for a good player, saving them from having to trade anyone of value, or you dump Dunn and eat his deal yourself. You only do #2 though if you have someone to plug in who is worth playing. Dumping Dunn for ex. and plugging in Casper Wells does nothing, and you actually get worse offensively.

I'm really iffy with Smoak on the grounds that this is his last pre-arb season. In my eyes, he's a bill for $3 million next year that I'm not sure I'd want to pay. If the Sox keep him, effectively they haven't saved any money and they've cut back on production (yes, it's true, Smoak's been that bad, Dunn's easily outperformed him).

 

Double the money they pick up and it starts making a bit more sense to me. As written though, it looks a lot like the Sox trading Dunn away for $3 million in total savings.

[witesoxfan]

Dunn for Smoak straight up, Mariners pick up $1M this year and $2M next year with the Sox paying the difference. Would you do it? I would. They'd at least have someone to plug in to take a shot on. As it is, there are 2 moves to make re: Dunn, either you get a team like the Dodgers (and maybe only them) to take on his salary in exchange for a good player, saving them from having to trade anyone of value, or you dump Dunn and eat his deal yourself. You only do #2 though if you have someone to plug in who is worth playing. Dumping Dunn for ex. and plugging in Casper Wells does nothing, and you actually get worse offensively.

 

I know you want this to happen now now now but it's going to wait until after the All-Star Break. No one is going to give up anything significantly more for Jesse Crain now than they will on July 16th or July 26th. Same goes for Thornton and Rios and they will actually give up less for Peavy, if that's indeed the route they go.

 

Seriously, it's this simple

 

1a.) Start shopping players now

1b.) Send scouts out

1c.) Let guys play

2a.) Get reports on said scouted players

2b.) Let guys play

3a.) Start collecting and countering offers.

3b.) Let guys play

4a.) Progress in trade talks to the point of finalizing deals

4b.) Let guys play

5.) Make trades

 

Jesse Crain has been one of the best relievers in the MLB this year and teams will be willing to wait to get him. If the Sox remain out of the race, they will deal him shortly after the All-Star Break.

 

People need to seriously relax. This s*** isn't going to happen overnight, and they are going to take their time making these sorts of decisions.

 

EDIT: You are right in that you don't want to wait until the deadline itself. Teams will lowball and keep moving on at that point. You want him and really any other players dealt by July 30th (or, at the very least, in deep negotiations).

Edited June 12, 2013 by witesoxfan

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Realistically, does any team take a look at Dunn? If he continues to hit well and gets his average up to .200, along with 25+ HRs by the deadline it's possible I guess. But it would be a salary dump for next year plus I'm sure the Sox would have to send some money. Who knows though?

Realistically I was thinking Dunn is that "immovable object' but he hasn't been bad at all the last month. Probably the Sox MVP of the last month which isn't saying all that much. But here is what he has done.

 

27 GP, 97 AB , 16 R , 23 H, 4 2b , 11 HR, 26 RBI , 16 BB , 34 K , .237 AVG. , .336 OBP , .619 SLG. , .955 OPS ,60 TB, 15 XBH, 0 GDP

 

1st in R, 1st in HR (11-3 2nd Highest) , 1st in RBI (26-15) , 1st in BB, 1st in SLG. (.619-.473) 1st in OPS (.955-.829) 1st in TB (60-52), 3rd in OBP behind DeAza and Rios, team has hit into 26 DP's the last 28 games Dunn 0. PK, Alexei and Viciedo accounting for 15 of those 26.

Edited June 12, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

Well, the White Sox have plenty of resources, supposedly, so it's not like they HAVE to do anything.

 

That gives them lots of leverage, in and of itself.

 

And they're not dealing with situations like Middlebrooks/Youkilis or Thome/Howard, where there's an obviously superior prospect being blocked by a popular, highly-paid veteran.

 

 

I do think that Crain has been SO GOOD, so far, that it's likely (just from a statistical perspective) that his performance has nowhere to go but down, and that will clip some value...along with having him for fewer games left this season the longer teams wait. It always goes both ways. We wouldn't be completely shocked if Crain was to go in June.

 

The rest of the players, July is much more likely.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

I know you want this to happen now now now but it's going to wait until after the All-Star Break. No one is going to give up anything significantly more for Jesse Crain now than they will on July 16th or July 26th. Same goes for Thornton and Rios and they will actually give up less for Peavy, if that's indeed the route they go.

 

Seriously, it's this simple

 

1a.) Start shopping players now

1b.) Send scouts out

1c.) Let guys play

2a.) Get reports on said scouted players

2b.) Let guys play

3a.) Start collecting and countering offers.

3b.) Let guys play

4a.) Progress in trade talks to the point of finalizing deals

4b.) Let guys play

5.) Make trades

 

Jesse Crain has been one of the best relievers in the MLB this year and teams will be willing to wait to get him. If the Sox remain out of the race, they will deal him shortly after the All-Star Break.

 

People need to seriously relax. This s*** isn't going to happen overnight, and they are going to take their time making these sorts of decisions.

 

EDIT: You are right in that you don't want to wait until the deadline itself. Teams will lowball and keep moving on at that point. You want him and really any other players dealt by July 30th (or, at the very least, in deep negotiations).

Hey, you're right, and I agree with what you are saying. My problem is that I don't think we've let the other 29 teams know that we've decided to sell. I think that if we put had it out there that we were definitely selling, there would be tons of stuff out there in the media by now. Everything I've seen on MLBTR that talks the Sox goes along the lines of "IF they sell, IF they decide they are out of contention, etc." and that's not good enough. Now that the draft is done, no contender should be bashful about calling the Sox on any player outside of Sale. Q would take a haul, Peavy, Rios, Viciedo would take a haul, but everyone but Sale should be out there & Thornton and Crain have to go no matter what, without question. Alexei should be next on the list after those guys.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Well, the White Sox have plenty of resources, supposedly, so it's not like they HAVE to do anything.

 

That gives them lots of leverage, in and of itself.

 

And they're not dealing with situations like Middlebrooks/Youkilis or Thome/Howard, where there's an obviously superior prospect being blocked by a popular, highly-paid veteran.

 

 

I do think that Crain has been SO GOOD, so far, that it's likely (just from a statistical perspective) that his performance has nowhere to go but down, and that will clip some value...along with having him for fewer games left this season the longer teams wait. It always goes both ways. We wouldn't be completely shocked if Crain was to go in June.

 

The rest of the players, July is much more likely.

They do HAVE to do something, sell.

 

I'm all freaked out that Hahn is going to botch the deadline. f***.

 

Hey caulfield you wanna do some coke? I'm all freaked out f***.

[southsider2k5]

Hey, you're right, and I agree with what you are saying. My problem is that I don't think we've let the other 29 teams know that we've decided to sell. I think that if we put had it out there that we were definitely selling, there would be tons of stuff out there in the media by now. Everything I've seen on MLBTR that talks the Sox goes along the lines of "IF they sell, IF they decide they are out of contention, etc." and that's not good enough. Now that the draft is done, no contender should be bashful about calling the Sox on any player outside of Sale. Q would take a haul, Peavy, Rios, Viciedo would take a haul, but everyone but Sale should be out there & Thornton and Crain have to go no matter what, without question. Alexei should be next on the list after those guys.

 

Your idea is the MLB equal of going into the bar and screaming "So which if you b****es am I going to be banging tonight." You don't declare yourself sellers. It reeks of desperation and you aren't going to maximize your return because everyone is going to wait you out.

[caulfield12]

They do HAVE to do something, sell.

 

I'm all freaked out that Hahn is going to botch the deadline. f***.

 

Hey caulfield you wanna do some coke? I'm all freaked out f***.

 

For what it's worth, most likely everyone is going to be disappointed...just because hopes are so high we actually bring in a tremendous infusion of new talent. Part of its the sheer level of frustration with the starting line-up we're sending out there everyday and how many mistakes they're making on a daily basis. We haven't really done something of this scale since 1997.

 

Would be interested to hear the tone Reinsdorf would take were he to be interviewed after last night's game...and Hahn, other than a couple of cliched responses, he hasn't been nearly as "informative" or outspoken as KW, so we should never make the mistake of assuming nothing's going on simply because he's more circumspect with the media and national beat writers. Even if KW wasn't saying something, he was saying SOMETHING if you interpreted the tea leaves.

 

Hard to be patient to wait for Hawkins and Anderson for another 2 1/2-3-4 years.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Your idea is the MLB equal of going into the bar and screaming "So which if you b****es am I going to be banging tonight." You don't declare yourself sellers. It reeks of desperation and you aren't going to maximize your return because everyone is going to wait you out.

 

I think to some extent you can, but you have to play it from the stereotypical girl's perspective rather than the guy's. Be a little slutty, feel the guys' offers, tease a few different guys and then go home with the one that has the biggest package. The guy is going to tell everyone at the bar that he wants to get laid and he is going to go up to all the girls and get no response and then, by the end, he is going to get one desperate, lonely girl to take him home and they'll have sloppy, quick sex and then he'll leave her house the next morning in shame and full of regret.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Your idea is the MLB equal of going into the bar and screaming "So which if you b****es am I going to be banging tonight." You don't declare yourself sellers. It reeks of desperation and you aren't going to maximize your return because everyone is going to wait you out.

lol that's a pretty good idea. I think that would probably work if you're in the right place & you have enough bling. Bar trash isn't hard to impress as it is.

 

Every team in the league knows we're desperate for young talent as it is. All they have to do is look at our organization. There are a couple players though that aren't getting the QO and are probably gone no matter what, and everyone out there knows it. I'm just saying, face the music. It's like Hahn should look in the mirror and say "We're not good enough, we're not smart enough, and doggonnit, nobody likes us" and then pick up the phone & let everyone know. Kind of like KW in August that year when he made it clear he was trading pieces after a bad game, and Contreras went to COL & Thome to LAD in the same night. Or like the time KW flipped over a table after Rauch went out to dinner with his parents. Hahn needs to flip the b**** switch. Does he have the b**** switch? We will find oit. I don't think so. Should have hired that Kim Ng chick, she probably has a b**** switch.

[caulfield12]

I think to some extent you can, but you have to play it from the stereotypical girl's perspective rather than the guy's. Be a little slutty, feel the guys' offers, tease a few different guys and then go home with the one that has the biggest package. The guy is going to tell everyone at the bar that he wants to get laid and he is going to go up to all the girls and get no response and then, by the end, he is going to get one desperate, lonely girl to take him home and they'll have sloppy, quick sex and then he'll leave her house the next morning in shame and full of regret.

 

 

Even Gordon Beckham and Brian Anderson? Kirk McCaskill? Jon Garland?

 

Derek Jeter?

 

What if that guy's read the MLB GM's version of THE GAME, lol?

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

For what it's worth, most likely everyone is going to be disappointed...just because hopes are so high we actually bring in a tremendous infusion of new talent. Part of its the sheer level of frustration with the starting line-up we're sending out there everyday and how many mistakes they're making on a daily basis. We haven't really done something of this scale since 1997.

 

Would be interested to hear the tone Reinsdorf would take were he to be interviewed after last night's game...and Hahn, other than a couple of cliched responses, he hasn't been nearly as "informative" or outspoken as KW, so we should never make the mistake of assuming nothing's going on simply because he's more circumspect with the media and national beat writers. Even if KW wasn't saying something, he was saying SOMETHING if you interpreted the tea leaves.

 

Hard to be patient to wait for Hawkins and Anderson for another 2 1/2-3-4 years.

IIRC when JR greenlighted the Peavy deal he said he was walking around Madison Ave. or something & felt rich, so he told KW to do it. JR needs to prentend he's on MLK at 2am when he's getting phone calls from HAhn, get the f*** out of here before I get beat to death.

[southsider2k5]

I think to some extent you can, but you have to play it from the stereotypical girl's perspective rather than the guy's. Be a little slutty, feel the guys' offers, tease a few different guys and then go home with the one that has the biggest package. The guy is going to tell everyone at the bar that he wants to get laid and he is going to go up to all the girls and get no response and then, by the end, he is going to get one desperate, lonely girl to take him home and they'll have sloppy, quick sex and then he'll leave her house the next morning in shame and full of regret.

 

Imagining Rick Hahn doing the walk of shame made this post worth while.

[caulfield12]

lol that's a pretty good idea. I think that would probably work if you're in the right place & you have enough bling. Bar trash isn't hard to impress as it is.

 

Every team in the league knows we're desperate for young talent as it is. All they have to do is look at our organization. There are a couple players though that aren't getting the QO and are probably gone no matter what, and everyone out there knows it. I'm just saying, face the music. It's like Hahn should look in the mirror and say "We're not good enough, we're not smart enough, and doggonnit, nobody likes us" and then pick up the phone & let everyone know. Kind of like KW in August that year when he made it clear he was trading pieces after a bad game, and Contreras went to COL & Thome to LAD in the same night. Or like the time KW flipped over a table after Rauch went out to dinner with his parents. Hahn needs to flip the b**** switch. Does he have the b**** switch? We will find oit. I don't think so. Should have hired that Kim Ng chick, she probably has a b**** switch.

 

 

Haha.

 

Not going to go there, knowing how many stereotypes about Asian women are out there, starting from their over-the-top portrayals in martial arts movies (think Lucy Liu), vs. the conceptualized idea (by SOME men) of quiet/docile/respectful/obedient/servile.

 

Just like there's a similar perception of Hahn as sort of an egg-head, detached, Ivy League-educated, accounting/data analysis/lawyering up type nerd without a killer instinct.

 

He has yet to pull off the "Theo Geeky is the New Cool" move yet. A big part of it is perception and how you deal (or don't deal) with the media.

Edited June 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[The Ultimate Champion]

I think to some extent you can, but you have to play it from the stereotypical girl's perspective rather than the guy's. Be a little slutty, feel the guys' offers, tease a few different guys and then go home with the one that has the biggest package. The guy is going to tell everyone at the bar that he wants to get laid and he is going to go up to all the girls and get no response and then, by the end, he is going to get one desperate, lonely girl to take him home and they'll have sloppy, quick sex and then he'll leave her house the next morning in shame and full of regret.

If Rick Hahn doesn't get to work he'll be sitting there with a fleshlight.

[caulfield12]

If Rick Hahn doesn't get to work he'll be sitting there with a fleshlight.

 

 

Think of Rick Hahn more like The Great Gatsby, except not as smooth or suave as Robert Redford or Leo DiCaprio.

 

Then mix him with Tom Buchanan.

Edited June 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[chisoxfan09]

OK, call me bonehead, meathead or whatever you want but here goes:

 

The Cubs farm is getting quite good and with the addition of Bryant at some point they may be top 5-10. If you had a choice of the below top 4 which would you start a package wish list with? Noting that Bryant cannot be traded until a year after he signs?

 

1. Javier Baez

1. Albert Almora

3. Jorge Soler

4. Chris Bryant

 

What other pieces would you demand back? Would you try and make it a 3 team deal?

 

We would send Sale (As untouchable as it gets) for the right package, why not? I know the Flubs are going to off load some of their one year contracts (Feldman, Baker) and others to get more prospects to either flip or keep growing.

 

I know we just locked up Sale to one of MLB's friendliest contracts but we need good hitting in our system. OK flame away.

[The Ultimate Champion]

OK, call me bonehead, meathead or whatever you want but here goes:

 

The Cubs farm is getting quite good and with the addition of Bryant at some point they may be top 5-10. If you had a choice of the below top 4 which would you start a package wish list with? Noting that Bryant cannot be traded until a year after he signs?

 

1. Javier Baez

1. Albert Almora

3. Jorge Soler

4. Chris Bryant

 

What other pieces would you demand back? Would you try and make it a 3 team deal?

 

We would send Sale (As untouchable as it gets) for the right package, why not? I know the Flubs are going to off load some of their one year contracts (Feldman, Baker) and others to get more prospects to either flip or keep growing.

 

I know we just locked up Sale to one of MLB's friendliest contracts but we need good hitting in our system. OK flame away.

Yeah let's just trade a young franchise player, one of the best starters in the game and an unquestionable ace, and one who is under control for a long time at a rate well below what he is worth, for a bunch of unproven minor league players who are right now in the minor leagues because they aren't good enough to play at the MLB level, and BTW are only ranked as well as they are because they have the potential to be very good should they hit all their benchmarks at all the right ages & never get seriously hurt & also should they be able to adjust to MLB play within their first seasons so that they aren't automatic busts.

 

I don't know a damn thing about the Cubs minor league system other than that it is full of players who aren't good enoughg right now to usurp the garbage they are running out there. And I'd be very comfortable saying that no one in their system right now ever becomes a better player than Chris Sale. Why? Because they are rare. Superstar MLB players are rare, so rare we haven't even had one since Hurt. Prospects with superstar ceilings however are not.

Edited June 16, 2013 by The Ultimate Champion

[Jake]

My plan as Hahn is to get this team back on its feet again ASAP. No extended rebuilds.

 

We'll assume that not much is different around mid-July, which is when we'll be dealing.

 

Step 1. Crain: He's a must-trade. I think you could really steal from someone who wants Crain, but even if you don't love your offers, you have to pull the trigger on something.

 

Step 2. Peavy: Try to see the market. You should be able to get a lot for him, and this is a case where I'd be willing to wait until the offseason to move him if he needs to prove he is healthy or whatever else. He is the most replaceable star we have, in that our pitching depth is pretty damn good and we have a good track record of developing starting arms.

 

Step 3. Rios: Similar story to Peavy, but even in the offseason I would demand a king's ransom. He could be on this team until 2015 if we want him at about market value and if you want to rebuild quickly, this is an option. However, if you can pry away a Mike Olt type of player then you do that and be okay with the fact you will lose production in the short term. No A-ball prospects of any pedigree for Rios. Rios can still be a part of your next winner and you make the point clear to trading partners. You can always trade him next year, because again he is not blocking any prospects.

 

Step 4. De Aza. See about his value. He's a good player in a premium position and you might be able to get something nice for him. We just have to accept that we don't have a good way to replace him and if you want to compete in the near term you will probably have to buy a centerfielder. Again, I wouldn't be forcing the issue to trade him but if you can get a good player at any level I would probably go ahead and do it.

 

Step 5. Alexei. This is a tough one. He isn't the same player he once was and his contract is long but not fabulously expensive. With that said, a team in need of an SS will probably pay something nice for him. In this case, you're making Gordon your short term SS. Kep is your 2B and you hope Carlos Sanchez pans out in the next 12-18 months. If you go into the offseason and want to add parts to make a competitive team, you may end up frustrated that you don't have a half-ass decent SS. Part of the deal, though.

 

Offseason plans: you give PK the finish to what is likely to be a "meh" season, pat him on the ass, let him walk. He probably retires, I would guess.

 

You stick it out with Dunn. You're not going to get anything for him and after dumping some mixture of Peavy/Rios/Crain/PK/Floyd, you really don't even need to save more money. Dunn may very well hit 40 bombs again and is just the type of guy that can add a little excitement to a team that may be in a transition year. In the final year of his contract, if he still looks like a 40 bomb guy, he may actually become quite valuable in trade. He isn't blocking any prospects at this point, either.

 

Bring in one major FA piece. You have some choices and you'll try to get one that the market doesn't overvalue. My primary target would probably be Kendry Morales to give you a middle-of-the-order bat for the next 3-4 years, but it is important not to overpay. Brian McCann, Jacoby Ellsbury, Curtis Granderson, Nate McLouth, James Loney, and several others will be worth looking at as well. You don't have to get a top-top guy, but bring in a veteran that can fathomably be on your next playoff team. If you get good value, get another one. It's fine to accidentally win.

 

Tyler Flowers will either be good enough to be your starting C or you hand the keys to Phegley.

 

Tank gets another year, but his position is negotiable depending on your other moves.

 

No need to look at adding pitchers. You can bring in a Matt Lindstrom-type, because again sucking isn't fun so it isn't a problem to spend a million or two on a guy that will keep you from losing some games. In the very worst case, these guys get valuable at the deadline.

 

You should be in a position where a couple things can go right and you win and at worst you should be another productive offseason away from winning.

[fathom]

Jake, if you start to trade Rios and Peavy, you're basically giving up on next year also. When organizations get in trouble is when they try to rebuild while contending. It's very hard to look at the roster without Rios and Peavy and think this team can even sniff competing against the powerhouse Tigers.

[Balta1701]

Jake, if you start to trade Rios and Peavy, you're basically giving up on next year also. When organizations get in trouble is when they try to rebuild while contending. It's very hard to look at the roster without Rios and Peavy and think this team can even sniff competing against the powerhouse Tigers.

Peavy, or at the very least 1 of the starters, absolutely needs to be traded. Peavy is the one who has the most value right now in a reasonable trade (obviously excluding Sale). We're 6 deep in starters once Peavy comes off the DL, and we'll be 7 deep by next year unless Johnson gets hurt.

 

This team could trade Peavy and field a competitive roster next year. If they pull off a good deal for him, they could be quite a bit improved.

 

Rios is the question mark. Rios is a guy who would contribute to the Sox next year if he was around, and the Sox will not have anyone ready to replace him from their system. If they were to move him, he needs to be replaced in a trade or in free agency if the team wants to compete next year. You can make up a situation where it works, but that one is the tricky one.

[Heads22]

Jake, if you start to trade Rios and Peavy, you're basically giving up on next year also. When organizations get in trouble is when they try to rebuild while contending. It's very hard to look at the roster without Rios and Peavy and think this team can even sniff competing against the powerhouse Tigers.

 

If we're going to firesale, there's no reason to halfass it.