Do you want Ventura back as manager next year?

[Balta1701]

And I'm saying if you think he booted the ball yesterday because of spring training, something you have no proof of your claim, I think that's crazy.

It's the butterfly effect. Can't link a single error individually to it, but the trend line is obvious.

[Dick Allen]

It's the butterfly effect. Can't link a single error individually to it, but the trend line is obvious.

Please link one article saying the White Sox didn't work hard on fundamentals in spring training. Were you even there?

[Balta1701]

Please link one article saying the White Sox didn't work hard on fundamentals in spring training. Were you even there?

Please link one saying they did.

 

I can find a ton in 2012.

 

The teams play speaks for itself. They ought to be doing the extra practice they did against the twins every other day. Their focus and basic fundamentals are pathetic. The worst I've seen from any sox team not loaded with rookies.

[kitekrazy]

Last year we heard over and over and over again that it was the most fundamentals-oriented spring training any of them ever went through. This year we haven't heard a peep even resembling that.

 

Whether it was the WBC schedule, the fact that the team tired out last year, whatever...they didn't do the fundamentals focus they did last year and the results speak for themselves. We've given up more unearned runs this year so far than we did all of last year. Not to mention the missed cutoff men, etc.

 

The most blatant one is the rundowns. outside of Youk who wasn't there for ST, it seemed like every rundown last year was executed perfectly. That's just a skill to practice; run at the guy and then 1 throw. We nailed that just about every time last year. This year I don't think I've seen it done correctly once. No one practiced it. Not a soul.

 

Maybe he didn't realize how well it worked/ how important it was to last year's success, maybe he stopped caring, maybe the players stopped caring, maybe he decided the team was too tired at the end of the year. Whatever the reason was, I'd have extended him several years last offseason for hwo good the team looked. I want him fired now for how bad this team looks.

 

The other thing that stood out last year was their approach at the plate.

 

[kitekrazy]

What's your intuition telling you, then?

 

Is it Ventura being too lax with players who consistently are making mental/physical errors and demonstrating a lack of concentration/focus that's almost inexplicable? The other coaches are simply not doing their jobs, like Parent?

 

Bad luck?

 

Is there really a correct answer? Some players can be coached and it brings short term success. Basically after that they return to their norm.

 

[caulfield12]

Is there really a correct answer? Some players can be coached and it brings short term success. Basically after that they return to their norm.

 

 

That's kind of the point of the whole debate between Balta and Dick Allen.

 

The truth lies somewhere in-between.

 

There are always some players who seem to be progressing and then mysteriously regress, too. Gordon Beckham would be a perfect example. Some would blame it on make-up/character/stubbornness. Some on attitude. Some on the coaching staff. Some on those around Gordon who "enabled" him throughout university and into the first round. Some on the scouts who missed mechanical flaws that would be exposed at higher levels. Some on the inability to make adjustments. Many many issues.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Please link one saying they did.

 

I can find a ton in 2012.

 

The teams play speaks for itself. They ought to be doing the extra practice they did against the twins every other day. Their focus and basic fundamentals are pathetic. The worst I've seen from any sox team not loaded with rookies.

http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/2013/03/

 

It says they still were working on fundamentals the day before the season started. When they called for the practice 5 hours before a game last month, Dunn said they worked on things they were working on the first day of spring training. You found a ton last year because the defense was stellar. They don't write about it now because the defense has been bad, but if they had a lax spring, the play would have produced at least a couple of articles about the lack of preperation. That hasn't been the case. Sometimes guys just play terribly.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/2013/03/

 

It says they still were working on fundamentals the day before the season started. When they called for the practice 5 hours before a game last month, Dunn said they worked on things they were working on the first day of spring training. You found a ton last year because the defense was stellar. They don't write about it now because the defense has been bad, but if they had a lax spring, the play would have produced at least a couple of articles about the lack of preperation. That hasn't been the case. Sometimes guys just play terribly.

 

 

Or the beat writers are covering for Ventura because they feel sorry for him and believe it's not really his fault, that the team is just either getting old (Konerko) or lacking in talent.

 

It's pretty rare that beat writers step out and openly confront something like this unless they have some inkling the manager's days are numbered and he's going to be leaving soon...that the tide/momentum has shifted enough to give them cover.

 

Maybe with the Ozzie/KW war, it would be less unusual because it was much a PR/spin war in the media (and social media) than anything else.

[kitekrazy]

That's kind of the point of the whole debate between Balta and Dick Allen.

 

The truth lies somewhere in-between.

 

There are always some players who seem to be progressing and then mysteriously regress, too. Gordon Beckham would be a perfect example. Some would blame it on make-up/character/stubbornness. Some on attitude. Some on the coaching staff. Some on those around Gordon who "enabled" him throughout university and into the first round. Some on the scouts who missed mechanical flaws that would be exposed at higher levels. Some on the inability to make adjustments. Many many issues.

 

The Sox seem to suffer this with veteran player FAs as well. It's like a curse.

I still think scouting and instruction need an overhaul. Beckham is not a total disaster compared to some of the other Sox prospects. He could fit on a team that doesn't rely on his offense but needs his defense like the 2012 Tigers.

This organization has had some really bad flops that even semi-pro teams wouldn't sign them.

 

[kitekrazy]

Or the beat writers are covering for Ventura because they feel sorry for him and believe it's not really his fault, that the team is just either getting old (Konerko) or lacking in talent.

 

It's pretty rare that beat writers step out and openly confront something like this unless they have some inkling the manager's days are numbered and he's going to be leaving soon...that the tide/momentum has shifted enough to give them cover.

 

Maybe with the Ozzie/KW war, it would be less unusual because it was much a PR/spin war in the media (and social media) than anything else.

 

I think it could be he is too likeable. He's not really defensive like Ozzie and the previous managers.

 

[Dick Allen]

Or the beat writers are covering for Ventura because they feel sorry for him and believe it's not really his fault, that the team is just either getting old (Konerko) or lacking in talent.

 

It's pretty rare that beat writers step out and openly confront something like this unless they have some inkling the manager's days are numbered and he's going to be leaving soon...that the tide/momentum has shifted enough to give them cover.

 

Maybe with the Ozzie/KW war, it would be less unusual because it was much a PR/spin war in the media (and social media) than anything else.

Now the excuse is by people who weren't there that they just laid around and drank beer for a month and a half and the reason it isn't being reported is the writers feel sorry for Robin. LMAO. And people rip Greg about AJ.

Just find one source other than Balta's speculation that the White Sox were lax towards fundamentals during spring training. If it was anything near the country club atmosphere it has been described with no work being done, it would be out there. There are more than just beat writers in Glendale.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Now the excuse is by people who weren't there that they just laid around and drank beer for a month and a half and the reason it isn't being reported is the writers feel sorry for Robin. LMAO. And people rip Greg about AJ.

Just find one source other than Balta's speculation that the White Sox were lax towards fundamentals during spring training. If it was anything near the country club atmosphere it has been described with no work being done, it would be out there. There are more than just beat writers in Glendale.

 

 

Maybe they were all focused on Yasiel Puig and forgot the White Sox, lol.

[caulfield12]

Now the excuse is by people who weren't there that they just laid around and drank beer for a month and a half and the reason it isn't being reported is the writers feel sorry for Robin. LMAO. And people rip Greg about AJ.

Just find one source other than Balta's speculation that the White Sox were lax towards fundamentals during spring training. If it was anything near the country club atmosphere it has been described with no work being done, it would be out there. There are more than just beat writers in Glendale.

 

(this article was written on May 13th for the DAILY HERALD)

 

By Chris Rongey

I'm aware there wasn't a wealth of White Sox fan excitement entering the 2013 season. At best, the majority of any upbeat opinion of what this team would be was best defined as restrained confidence.

 

The idea that it all might just be all right if most things went well.

 

But they haven't.

 

You see, the White Sox this year always have been — going back to February — a team that would have very little room for error if they wanted to truly compete.

 

Unfortunately, all we've seen this season is too many of those.

 

Errors.

 

Thus, I'm led to the first of this past week's concerns of the fan (and me, too): Are they going to start playing better defense, because, gaaaa, my eyes???

 

First, errors don't mean everything. Having more than most other teams in baseball (as the Sox do), does not necessarily mean that the defense, or the team itself, is a bad one.

 

In general, teams with better overall fielding range are able to reach more balls in play, and consequently have more opportunity to accumulate a greater total of errors.

 

So, on occasion, more errors can just mean a team simply gets to balls that other teams don't.

 

In the case of the White Sox, though, the errors do mean something.

 

As you know, a team that is as poor of an offensive team as this one has been does not have enough equity to be able to afford and withstand extra outs and gift runs.

 

Just this past week on at least two instances the game-tying/winning runs scored directly as the result of bad fielding. I've estimated that the Sox have costs themselves 4 wins on defense alone, and I'm probably coming in short on that.

 

Originally, I figured they wouldn't suffer from defensive disorders all season, but the longer this goes on, the more worrisome it becomes. They just have to make sure it doesn't metastasize into an incurable disease.

 

I still have a difficult time thinking this will go on all season, but it has been happening for far too long.

 

•Should this team consider "blowing it up"?

 

No. Not now.

 

And even if the White Sox did want to see what they could get in return for the likes of Jake Peavy, Alex Rios, any reliever, etc., it's not automatically the case that they'll receive a haul in return.

 

Modern team philosophy around baseball is that prospects are to be protected, and acquiring another team's good young players isn't nearly as easy as it once was.

 

So the dream of selling off well-paid veterans to stock up on cheap, young talent is just that: a dream.

 

•How much will the return of Gordon Beckham and John Danks help?

 

Hopefully Beckham's return will greatly improve infield defense for a unit that desperately needs to get better.

 

Quite a few of the miscues on the diamond have been instigated by the second base position, including misplayed popups, booted double-play grounders and turns to first.

 

The rotation still has done nice work in the absence of Danks, but his addition to the staff should solidify it. At minimum, it gives them an option for the final spot in the rotation as they chose between Hector Santiago and Dylan Axelrod.

 

•Chris Rongey is the host of the White Sox pregame and postgame shows on WSCR 670-AM The Score. Follow him on Twitter @ChrisRongey and at chrisrongey.com. Subscriber Total Access members can email him questions each week via our online link.

[caulfield12]

mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@ChrisRongey @Diesal3426 U have no business having the job u do. U must give great head to whoever ur superiors are.

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@ChrisRongey @Diesal3426 @scottmerkin Watch your mouth, Rongey. Im not afraid to b**** slap you like the sally you are

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@Diesal3426 @Chuck_Lief @ChrisRongey At this point, they are so pitiful, its fun bad. Who will screw up next !?

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@Diesal3426 @ChrisRongey @scottmerkin Its embarassing to all those who have put on that Sox uniform though

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@Diesal3426 @ChrisRongey @scottmerkin No...Black Jesus had nothing to do with that

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@chisoxbarstool no one can bunt on this team. They execute like 5 year olds

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@ChrisRongey @scottmerkin and grow a set of balls

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@ChrisRongey @scottmerkin Farmer...DJ...Hawk...Stone, ALL RIPPING this bulls***. How bout it Rongey, take the Corporate hat off

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@ChrisRongey @scottmerkin How do u like them apples, Rongey !?!

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@DomeSki22 Worst team in MLB

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@chisoxbarstool @ChiSoxFanDan @scottmerkin This is the worst team in baseball. I dare u to prove otherwise. They are now insulting the game

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@scottmerkin OK Merk....This is now Bad News Bears. This is humiliating to the game of baseball

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mike slusarz ‏@MickerFP now

@scottmerkin Maybe he should have kept the locks

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[witesoxfan]

Some people really do go to great lengths to get their voice out there. What a f***ing tool. I don't even care if that Mike posts here.

[Balta1701]

Now the excuse is by people who weren't there that they just laid around and drank beer for a month and a half and the reason it isn't being reported is the writers feel sorry for Robin. LMAO. And people rip Greg about AJ.

Just find one source other than Balta's speculation that the White Sox were lax towards fundamentals during spring training. If it was anything near the country club atmosphere it has been described with no work being done, it would be out there. There are more than just beat writers in Glendale.

You wanna go watch Gordon Beckham try to field that popup a few times and tell me this again?

[caulfield12]

"Listless offense,'' manager Robin Ventura said. "I don't know the reason for it, but it can't happen.

"It's just unacceptable. You've got to put something on the board.''

 

yahoo.com/sports

[greg775]

I wish the Sox would have tried something before the firesale. At least the Royals fired their hitting coach buffoons and brought in George Brett for at least a month. At least the team is near .500 again.

Sox could have done the same with Frank. Done something.

[caulfield12]

I wish the Sox would have tried something before the firesale. At least the Royals fired their hitting coach buffoons and brought in George Brett for at least a month. At least the team is near .500 again.

Sox could have done the same with Frank. Done something.

 

What makes you think Frank Thomas wants to be a hitting coach?

 

Broadcasters makes 3-5X as much money.

 

And who would you expect would be hitting much better with the Hrniak/Lau style on our team? Frank Thomas has/had one of the most unusual, "don't ever copy that at home Little League youngsters" hitting approaches of anyone you're likely to see....and it worked for him, with his size and plate discipline, but you're grasping for straws if you think it would make any difference or bring both Gavin Floyd and Peavy back to good health.

Edited June 28, 2013 by caulfield12

[kitekrazy]

What makes you think Frank Thomas wants to be a hitting coach?

 

Broadcasters makes 3-5X as much money.

 

And who would you expect would be hitting much better with the Hrniak/Lau style on our team? Frank Thomas has/had one of the most unusual, "don't ever copy that at home Little League youngsters" hitting approaches of anyone you're likely to see....and it worked for him, with his size and plate discipline, but you're grasping for straws if you think it would make any difference or bring both Gavin Floyd and Peavy back to good health.

 

They also have a better chance of retaining their jobs.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Maybe Robin should publicly beg for an extension rather than express doubt over his future.

 

Maybe he should yell at everyone, throw his players under the bus all the time, instead of trying to be so level-headed.

 

Maybe he should give more detail in his dealings with the media, I mean, why doesn't he have a better relationship with the media? That's what a manager is mostly there for, right? To hold court?

 

Maybe Robin should try to take the pressure off the players and put it on himself. That always works.

 

You know what we need?

 

OZZIE

 

YeAH

[greg775]

Maybe Robin should publicly beg for an extension rather than express doubt over his future.

 

Maybe he should yell at everyone, throw his players under the bus all the time, instead of trying to be so level-headed.

 

Maybe he should give more detail in his dealings with the media, I mean, why doesn't he have a better relationship with the media? That's what a manager is mostly there for, right? To hold court?

 

Maybe Robin should try to take the pressure off the players and put it on himself. That always works.

 

You know what we need?

 

OZZIE

 

YeAH

 

Don't tease me. Ozzie baby! Where is he now? What's he doing? As far as Robin, if I wanted to, I could make a case he has truly failed a city this season. We're about to blow up a whole team when in reality, did Robin actually have something to work with this season?

The failed defense came out of nowhere. Robin should be ashamed that his players are playing like mental midgets. True, the front office failed him in letting AJ go. That was a disaster for a manager. And true it's not his fault we have no corner infielders with power. It's also not his fault Dunn continues to wreck the lineup with his presence.

But he still has Rios and the young Tank who didn't develop. He has DeAza who arguably was a good prospect and he has a fantastic pitching staff, with a great closer and setup guy in Crain. He also has an above average shortstop who suddenly has no pop in his bat and now is abysmal defensively. Why has that decline suddenly occurred?

 

ON PAPER, didn't Robin have something to work with? Wouldn't a Joe Madden have this team right there?? Just asking.

Edited June 28, 2013 by greg775

[witesoxfan]

I would projective vomit all over USCF if Ozzie were rehired.

[Balta1701]

Don't tease me. Ozzie baby! Where is he now? What's he doing? As far as Robin, if I wanted to, I could make a case he has truly failed a city this season. We're about to blow up a whole team when in reality, did Robin actually have something to work with this season?

The failed defense came out of nowhere. Robin should be ashamed that his players are playing like mental midgets. True, the front office failed him in letting AJ go. That was a disaster for a manager. And true it's not his fault we have no corner infielders with power. It's also not his fault Dunn continues to wreck the lineup with his presence.

But he still has Rios and the young Tank who didn't develop. He has DeAza who arguably was a good prospect and he has a fantastic pitching staff, with a great closer and setup guy in Crain.

 

ON PAPER, didn't Robin have something to work with? Wouldn't a Joe Madden have this team right there?? Just asking.

80% of this I agree with. Robin had something to work with, I agree. Dunn is not "wrecking the lineup" with his presence. AJ Pierzynski would not be helping the number of errors at short stop. Otherwise, yes, I think Robin has absolutely failed at his job this season. This team is much more talented than how it is playing. If Konerko is finished, fine, they're not as good of a team as they were last year, but there's zero reason for them to be this much worse.

[TheBigHurtIsBack]

Everyone knows I hated Ozzie post-2006 and on but I would almost trade Robin to have Ozzie again... that's how much I have hated Robin's managing. It's been that bad.