caulfield12 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just last night, in the game.... 1) Gimenez making another horrible defensive play, when a decent throw and the runner's out by a country mile. 2) Alexei Ramirez botching a simple rundown play that SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRACTICED IN SPRING TRAINING 100 TIMES and allowing a runner to get from 1st to 2nd. There's just no excuse for that kind of mental mistake. Little Leaguers do it more proficiently. 3) Luckily Viciedo came through with the big triple...but, previously in that inning, Dunn should have gone from 1st to 3rd on the Konerko single up the middle. No excuses. He has to get to third. Then he would have scored to tie it up on the Gillaspie ball to the right side of the diamond. Every game. you can point out NUMEROUS errors like this. I wouldn't mind if they lost and were simply outplayed, it's just hard to stomach and mind-numbing how many mistakes can be made with no consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 10:10 AM) Just last night, in the game.... 1) Gimenez making another horrible defensive play, when a decent throw and the runner's out by a country mile. 2) Alexei Ramirez botching a simple rundown play that SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRACTICED IN SPRING TRAINING 100 TIMES and allowing a runner to get from 1st to 2nd. There's just no excuse for that kind of mental mistake. Little Leaguers do it more proficiently. 3) Luckily Viciedo came through with the big triple...but, previously in that inning, Dunn should have gone from 1st to 3rd on the Konerko single up the middle. No excuses. He has to get to third. Then he would have scored to tie it up on the Gillaspie ball to the right side of the diamond. Every game. you can point out NUMEROUS errors like this. I wouldn't mind if they lost and were simply outplayed, it's just hard to stomach and mind-numbing how many mistakes can be made with no consequences. The botched rundown started with Quintana. He can't make a throw until the runner commits to one base. Q had to keep running right at the base runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:10 AM) Just last night, in the game.... 1) Gimenez making another horrible defensive play, when a decent throw and the runner's out by a country mile. 2) Alexei Ramirez botching a simple rundown play that SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRACTICED IN SPRING TRAINING 100 TIMES and allowing a runner to get from 1st to 2nd. There's just no excuse for that kind of mental mistake. Little Leaguers do it more proficiently. 3) Luckily Viciedo came through with the big triple...but, previously in that inning, Dunn should have gone from 1st to 3rd on the Konerko single up the middle. No excuses. He has to get to third. Then he would have scored to tie it up on the Gillaspie ball to the right side of the diamond. Every game. you can point out NUMEROUS errors like this. I wouldn't mind if they lost and were simply outplayed, it's just hard to stomach and mind-numbing how many mistakes can be made with no consequences. Did you see that PK single ? No way does Dunn go to 3rd on that even with 2 outs. Dunn had every right to believe the Stros SS would knock that ball down but somehow he didnt. It wasnt hit hard at all went through the pitchers legs and some how ,some way the SS didnt touch it even though he was there. Any kind of minimal dive and he smothers it. He bent over reaching to his left but missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'm going to have to watch the video/replays. Just going off the reaction of Farmer and DJ because I just got back to the US and haven't decided whether to depress myself with MLB.com for just one month before I go to Africa. At any rate, both DJ and Farmer were ALL OVER Dunn and Ramirez. Wonder why/how they both misread those plays? In the case of Quintana's throw, if the runner's caught between 2nd and 3rd, you absolutely have to get him running back towards 2B quickly or the runner from first can at least move up into scoring position on the play. If executed properly, that runner's always going to stay at 1B for fear of making two outs on one combined bad base-running play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:28 AM) I'm going to have to watch the video/replays. Just going off the reaction of Farmer and DJ because I just got back to the US and haven't decided whether to depress myself with MLB.com for just one month before I go to Africa. At any rate, both DJ and Farmer were ALL OVER Dunn and Ramirez. Wonder why/how they both misread those plays? In the case of Quintana's throw, if the runner's caught between 2nd and 3rd, you absolutely have to get him running back towards 2B quickly or the runner from first can at least move up into scoring position on the play. If executed properly, that runner's always going to stay at 1B for fear of making two outs on one combined bad base-running play. Maybe Farmer and DJ are blind and should know you don't make the 3rd out of the inning at 3rd base and after all we're talking about Adam Dunn not some speed demon. Dunn gets gunned and the Sox lose that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I really want to be surprised by the results, but I simply can't. 5 out of 8 want Ventura gone, which to me is sad. He showed incredible potential last year, and I'm sure he wanted to add to the team. Instead, they lost Liriano, Myers, Youkilis, and Pierzynski, and added Jeff Keppinger and Matt Lindstrom. There's a feeling of dejection there for him too. I say you keep him for a couple more years, you unload and reload a bit, and give him one more shot. As bad as it looks now, this team really isn't that far away from being competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:56 AM) I really want to be surprised by the results, but I simply can't. 5 out of 8 want Ventura gone, which to me is sad. He showed incredible potential last year, and I'm sure he wanted to add to the team. Instead, they lost Liriano, Myers, Youkilis, and Pierzynski, and added Jeff Keppinger and Matt Lindstrom. There's a feeling of dejection there for him too. I say you keep him for a couple more years, you unload and reload a bit, and give him one more shot. As bad as it looks now, this team really isn't that far away from being competitive. Which of those guys that were lost would you actually have wanted back? Have any of them other than Liriano been valuable contributors to anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 10:56 AM) I really want to be surprised by the results, but I simply can't. 5 out of 8 want Ventura gone, which to me is sad. He showed incredible potential last year, and I'm sure he wanted to add to the team. Instead, they lost Liriano, Myers, Youkilis, and Pierzynski, and added Jeff Keppinger and Matt Lindstrom. There's a feeling of dejection there for him too. I say you keep him for a couple more years, you unload and reload a bit, and give him one more shot. As bad as it looks now, this team really isn't that far away from being competitive. I can't wait for this season to be over for no other reason than to find out what was going on in that lockerroom. Something just isn't right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:06 AM) Which of those guys that were lost would you actually have wanted back? Have any of them other than Liriano been valuable contributors to anyone? As a fan, I didn't want any of them back. Had I been a manager though, I probably would have wanted Pierzynski and/or Youkilis back, but I don't know what the lockerroom was like or anything along those lines. I do know that, if I were the manager and we'd competed that hard all year, I would have hoped they'd add more than Jeff Keppinger and Matt Lindstrom to my team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) And $15 million for a front line starter. That was a decrease from his previous salary of $17M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:06 AM) Which of those guys that were lost would you actually have wanted back? Have any of them other than Liriano been valuable contributors to anyone? I think his point was that the team given to him this year was worse than last year's. The names don't matter at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 03:56 PM) I really want to be surprised by the results, but I simply can't. 5 out of 8 want Ventura gone, which to me is sad. He showed incredible potential last year, and I'm sure he wanted to add to the team. Instead, they lost Liriano, Myers, Youkilis, and Pierzynski, and added Jeff Keppinger and Matt Lindstrom. There's a feeling of dejection there for him too. I say you keep him for a couple more years, you unload and reload a bit, and give him one more shot. As bad as it looks now, this team really isn't that far away from being competitive. I voted no but would not be upset if he came back. He probably is a good choice to manage the team through the upcoming lean years. His personality I would think would be good for young players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Venture should be brought back, its a shame that both him and Hahn have to pay the price for Kenny Williams and his ill advised moves, especially the trading away of top prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 02:14 AM) Venture should be brought back, its a shame that both him and Hahn have to pay the price for Kenny Williams and his ill advised moves, especially the trading away of top prospects. Welcome to the board; however, just who are these top prospects that you speak of that were traded away and how many of them have exactly lit the world on fire after their departure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 06:29 AM) Welcome to the board; however, just who are these top prospects that you speak of that were traded away and how many of them have exactly lit the world on fire after their departure? Carter, Morse, Gio, Hudson, Sweeney (lol), Chris Young, McCarthy, that's about the extent of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 07:33 AM) Carter, Morse, Gio, Hudson, Sweeney (lol), Chris Young, McCarthy, that's about the extent of it. Okay.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) Absolutely not (to answer the question posed atop this thread). And his personality and laid back attitude are fine. Edited June 20, 2013 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Bring him back for one more year. In all honestly, I question Hahn's ability to evaluate talent. I know many blaim KW for his hyper aggressive trades. The trades that depleted the farm system. However, if Hahn was KW's assistant GM, he was ALSO part of that problem. Hahn didn't do much of anything this past winter and I thought that was a small red flag. The time to shed some salary and sell high on a few players in nearing- he better make some long term based trades soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 01:26 PM) Bring him back for one more year. In all honestly, I question Hahn's ability to evaluate talent. I know many blaim KW for his hyper aggressive trades. The trades that depleted the farm system. However, if Hahn was KW's assistant GM, he was ALSO part of that problem. Hahn didn't do much of anything this past winter and I thought that was a small red flag. The time to shed some salary and sell high on a few players in nearing- he better make some long term based trades soon. We can fault him for overvaluing Flowers, or the assessment he was ready to be a full-time catcher. And Keppinger, although he was never designed to be the full-time starter at 2B and there's some evidence he's been playing with an injury. What could he have done, realistically, with the budget constraints coming off the disappointing missed playoff appearance that wouldn't have involved spending more money and going over the payroll limits imposed by JR and the Board? Traded Floyd and Peavy? Traded Viciedo? DeAza? Dunn? Rios? Ramirez? You can't really fault Hahn for what's happened so far...but he will be blamed for making "bad" trades over the next 6 weeks. A lot of posters have been open and honest about their frustration and disappointment with the coaching staff as well, including Harrelson (although he's not aiming at Ventura, apparently). It's impossible to blame Hahn to the same extent you blame Williams, even if he was part of the front office that entire time...if you're going with that logic, then Buddy Bell should be just as much under the gun, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I give Hahn credit for not pouring a ton of resources into this particular team. To be honest, the plan was to probably go young this season heading into last year, but then after they competed all season, it would have looked a lot worse to just blow things up. It will be a lot easier after this year to go young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) It's not the GM's job or role to evaluate talent. It's his job to make decisions based on information he has. EDIT: Being able TO evaluate talent is nice, but it is absolutely not necessary. Hahn saw what this team was and put into it what he felt he could. Spending any more than they did would have been irresponsible, and now they can get ready to add a few pieces. Edited June 20, 2013 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) I doubt Robin will just want to quit, since he was such a good competitor as a player, but his legacy is going to be pretty much stained after 3-4 more years of this crap. And going young, young, young will probably guarantee some 55-65 win seasons. Robin as the scapegoat or the manager of some of our worst teams in history seems wrong. Edited June 20, 2013 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) I doubt Robin will just want to quit, since he was such a good competitor as a player, but his legacy is going to be pretty much stained after 3-4 more years of this crap. And going young, young, young will probably guarantee some 55-65 win seasons. Robin as the scapegoat or the manager of some of our worst teams in history seems wrong. Tom Kelly is considered by many to be the best manager in Twins history. His career record is 1140-1244, including 4 90+ loss years where the team was void of talent. Beyond that, I highly doubt they go young, young, young. They'll do a slight rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 04:07 PM) Tom Kelly is considered by many to be the best manager in Twins history. His career record is 1140-1244, including 4 90+ loss years where the team was void of talent. Beyond that, I highly doubt they go young, young, young. They'll do a slight rebuild. Did Tom Kelly ever have a team whose fundamentals were as poor as the 2013 Chicago White Sox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) Did Tom Kelly ever have a team whose fundamentals were as poor as the 2013 Chicago White Sox? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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