Do you want Ventura back as manager next year?

[greg775]

I can't figure out why someone is clinging to the odds of a freak accident at pitch 112 being any greater than the first 111.

 

Exactly, also we have a pitching GURU in the dugout in Coop. You think Coop isn't telling Robin what to do pitching wise??

I wanted Robin out until the Rios incident. Now I want him to stay. It's not going to matter who is our manager next year so give Robin another year. If he actually wants to stick around and manage this piss poor Sox team, I applaud him for it. I'd think he'd be sickened by the organization and the players by now, but if he's not, KEEP ROBIN. He's a leader as he proved by yanking Rios' lazy butt from that one game.

[LittleHurt05]

Cy I have repeatedly said its not the results that matter over and over just like you. I love the Sox . I am more a White Sox apologist than anything if there is a way to characterize my thinking. I was in favor of Robin . I said why not ? Give him a chance but now I have seen enough. Cy you are 100% correct in your assessment of the situation. It's not about Robin or Jake or if he got hurt or if he didn't. It's about risk and reward, and protecting the biggest piece the Sox have had at the deadine in a very very long time, so much so that the next chance to be competitive again in a short period of time may hinge on him.

 

If you're going to put all that at risk to showcase him another inning or get him an ovation then I have serious doubts that you understand baseball. Kudo's to you sir for your support.

 

If you pull him after 5 or 6 innings, you may limit what you get back for him in a trade. It's not an arm injury, but a rib injury can severely hinder your ability to throw 100%. A team may invest $20+million and top prospects for him, they have to be positive that he will be at full strength for the stretch run this year.

 

I understand protecting your asset, but you also have to maximize the value of your asset. Unfortunately that rib injury happened, and Peavy needed to show that it wouldn't prevent from going deep into a ballgame.

[witesoxfan]

What's your range?

 

Only 40-50 feet, but I will continue to puke and rally so that I cover the vast majority of USCF.

 

 

----

 

Regarding the Peavy thing, this is merely my own personal speculation, but I don't think he wanted to send Peavy out. I think Peavy was feeling good and told Robin he wanted to go back out for one more quick inning. It was the bottom of the order, the Sox were up by a lot, Peavy's adrenaline is rushing, and if he cruises, he can get 8 innings and another standing O, this one bigger than the previous. Once he gave up the homer, Robin had to pull the plug.

 

Again, merely speculation, but I think Robin does this kind of thing a lot with his players. Perhaps it's because it's a losing season, but he needs to stand by his convictions more and make his decision final.

 

 

[GreenSox]

Part of the reason that Ventura over-pitches his starters, I would think, is because the back of the bullpen is terrible. Yet, Ventura can't get enough of Troncoso, a pitcher who has never shown any ML ability. He doesn't dare pitch Reed more than an inning...he'll make him get up and pitch him 3/4 days, but not more than an inning and never earlier than the 9th.. Bags loaded in a tie game in the 6th? Bring in Troncoso. Can't use the good ones that early. Gotta save them for the 8th and 9th when no one's on base.

Just an ordinary, at best, manager.

[southsider2k5]

Part of the reason that Ventura over-pitches his starters, I would think, is because the back of the bullpen is terrible. Yet, Ventura can't get enough of Troncoso, a pitcher who has never shown any ML ability. He doesn't dare pitch Reed more than an inning...he'll make him get up and pitch him 3/4 days, but not more than an inning and never earlier than the 9th.. Bags loaded in a tie game in the 6th? Bring in Troncoso. Can't use the good ones that early. Gotta save them for the 8th and 9th when no one's on base.

Just an ordinary, at best, manager.

 

Welcome to rebuilding. It means guys like Ramon Troncoso figure prominently in your team.

 

[LVSoxFan]

I really don't, and I kind of feel bad about it.

 

If we go young next year, I don't want a laid back guy like him in charge. That would be the time to go after Dave Martinez.

 

Just bring up guys and let them play. Seems to work for other teams.

 

Actually I was all for keeping him on until I read this. I agree.

 

[Dick Allen]

People do realize Dave Martinez makes Robin seem as loud as Ozzie don't they?

[Balta1701]

People do realize Dave Martinez makes Robin seem as loud as Ozzie don't they?

I don't need a guy to be loud if his people play solid baseball.

[Dick Allen]

I don't need a guy to be loud if his people play solid baseball.

Of course not, but when people criticize Ventura for his quiet demeanor, and then mention Dave Martinez as their choice to take his place, it would be nice if they realized he is more quiet than Robin.

[Balta1701]

Of course not, but when people criticize Ventura for his quiet demeanor, and then mention Dave Martinez as their choice to take his place, it would be nice if they realized he is more quiet than Robin.

I'd be thrilled with Ventura's quiet demeanor if it seemed like it was having a positive impact on the players.

[Dick Allen]

I'd be thrilled with Ventura's quiet demeanor if it seemed like it was having a positive impact on the players.

It is and it has. You blame players making errors on the manager. You also claim they took it easy during spring training. That has been debunked. They spent just as much time doing the same drills they did last year. It just all fell apart. Blaming that on the manager is crazy.

 

I will bet 100% of the people who blame Ventura when the players screw up, if they are managers in their line of work, would never understand taking the fall if one of their underlings screwed up.

[southsider2k5]

Of course not, but when people criticize Ventura for his quiet demeanor, and then mention Dave Martinez as their choice to take his place, it would be nice if they realized he is more quiet than Robin.

 

and also realize that Ventura isn't quiet when the doors are closed and no one is watching. Both Ozzie and Frank tell stories about Robins taking people aside and tearing them up for not playing the game the right way.

[Balta1701]

It is and it has. You blame players making errors on the manager. You also claim they took it easy during spring training. That has been debunked. They spent just as much time doing the same drills they did last year. It just all fell apart. Blaming that on the manager is crazy.

 

I will bet 100% of the people who blame Ventura when the players screw up, if they are managers in their line of work, would never understand taking the fall if one of their underlings screwed up.

It hasn't been "Debunked". You pointed to one article on them working on fundamentals the last day of ST. Whatever they did...IT DIDN'T WORK.

 

So yes, I blame the players making mental errors on the manager, just like I gave last year's manager credit for how focused the team was.

 

If Robin Ventura isn't to blame for the complete collapse of the player's fundamentals, focus, and mental performance on the field, fine, then we're at the "There's no reason to retain him because he really doesn't do anything positive or negative so why does anyone care" point?

[iamshack]

It hasn't been "Debunked". You pointed to one article on them working on fundamentals the last day of ST. Whatever they did...IT DIDN'T WORK.

 

So yes, I blame the players making mental errors on the manager, just like I gave last year's manager credit for how focused the team was.

 

If Robin Ventura isn't to blame for the complete collapse of the player's fundamentals, focus, and mental performance on the field, fine, then we're at the "There's no reason to retain him because he really doesn't do anything positive or negative so why does anyone care" point?

I find it difficult to really have any other opinion about RV than this...

[Dick Allen]

It hasn't been "Debunked". You pointed to one article on them working on fundamentals the last day of ST. Whatever they did...IT DIDN'T WORK.

 

So yes, I blame the players making mental errors on the manager, just like I gave last year's manager credit for how focused the team was.

 

If Robin Ventura isn't to blame for the complete collapse of the player's fundamentals, focus, and mental performance on the field, fine, then we're at the "There's no reason to retain him because he really doesn't do anything positive or negative so why does anyone care" point?

Hawk mentioned it, said they worked on it "a ton", even more than last year.

Hahn mentioned it.

Ventura mentioned it just yesterday or the day before, said it was just one of those things that snowballed.

 

I know we live in an era where everything you do wrong is pinned on someone else, but the problem is, if you don't actually change the real cause of the problem (players) you really won't solve the problem.

 

The Sox offense is horrid. Is that Manto's fault?

Edited July 26, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Hawk mentioned it, said they worked on it "a ton", even more than last year.

Hahn mentioned it.

Ventura mentioned it just yesterday or the day before, said it was just one of those things that snowballed.

 

I know we live in an era where everything you do wrong is pinned on someone else, but the problem is, if you don't actually change the real cause of the problem (players) you really won't solve the problem.

 

The Sox offense is horrid. Is that Manto's fault?

If you want to blame Viciedo's lack of development and the poor starts De Aza and Dunn got off to and Ramirez's shocking lack of power and Flowers's lack of development on Manto, I'm all ears.

 

I still do have some positives. beckham being a ton better, Rios continuing to hit, Gillaspie at least showing some growth and getting off to a hot start (we'll see where that goes), De Aza and Dunn being on fire lately. So overall I'm iffy on manto for this season. There's been some positives and some negatives. I defy you to tell me one thing the White Sox have done well on their fundamental baseball skills.

 

IMO the thing that really killed the Sox's offense was Paul Konerko finally getting old, and that one I don't hang on Manto. That's a totally different team if Konerko is putting up his usual .850+ OPS.

[Dick Allen]

It hasn't been "Debunked". You pointed to one article on them working on fundamentals the last day of ST. Whatever they did...IT DIDN'T WORK.

 

So yes, I blame the players making mental errors on the manager, just like I gave last year's manager credit for how focused the team was.

 

If Robin Ventura isn't to blame for the complete collapse of the player's fundamentals, focus, and mental performance on the field, fine, then we're at the "There's no reason to retain him because he really doesn't do anything positive or negative so why does anyone care" point?

Take Alex Rios. He dogged his way out of Toronto. He dogged it and Ozzie benched him. He dogged it and Ventura benched him. I guess that means the problem is with the 3 managers. It's their job to get Alex to hustle, correct?

[greg775]

If you want to blame Viciedo's lack of development and the poor starts De Aza and Dunn got off to and Ramirez's shocking lack of power and Flowers's lack of development on Manto, I'm all ears.

 

I still do have some positives. beckham being a ton better, Rios continuing to hit, Gillaspie at least showing some growth and getting off to a hot start (we'll see where that goes), De Aza and Dunn being on fire lately. So overall I'm iffy on manto for this season. There's been some positives and some negatives. I defy you to tell me one thing the White Sox have done well on their fundamental baseball skills.

 

IMO the thing that really killed the Sox's offense was Paul Konerko finally getting old, and that one I don't hang on Manto. That's a totally different team if Konerko is putting up his usual .850+ OPS.

I think it's simple. Sox don't hit home runs anymore. Still have basepath cloggers. Dunn whacks a few. Big deal.

 

Take Alex Rios. He dogged his way out of Toronto. He dogged it and Ozzie benched him. He dogged it and Ventura benched him. I guess that means the problem is with the 3 managers. It's their job to get Alex to hustle, correct?

 

Winning baseball teams do not want guys like Alex Rios on their rosters. He and Jose Guillen are the same guy. Please trade him soon.

[Chicago White Sox]

Of course not, but when people criticize Ventura for his quiet demeanor, and then mention Dave Martinez as their choice to take his place, it would be nice if they realized he is more quiet than Robin.

How do you know these are the same people?

[Balta1701]

I think it's simple. Sox don't hit home runs anymore. Still have basepath cloggers. Dunn whacks a few. Big deal.

I certainly don't feel like "Basepath cloggers" is a problem with this team at all. Guys like Alexei and Rios are having stellar seasons of stealing bases.

[greg775]

I certainly don't feel like "Basepath cloggers" is a problem with this team at all. Guys like Alexei and Rios are having stellar seasons of stealing bases.

 

DeAza's pretty fast too. But it's still station to station with absolutely nobody getting the hits with men on base.

[LittleHurt05]

DeAza's pretty fast too. But it's still station to station with absolutely nobody getting the hits with men on base.

 

The White Sox are 9th in baseball in batting average with RISP. They are 27th in OBP. They are getting hits when runners are on, it's just that people aren't getting on base very often.

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox are 9th in baseball in batting average with RISP. They are 27th in OBP. They are getting hits when runners are on, it's just that people aren't getting on base very often.

I think WGN always has pcts and the Sox pcts are always higher than the league average for scoring guys on first with 2 out or guy on 2nd with one out. You are correct, they just aren't in that situation as much as other teams.

[greg775]

The White Sox are 9th in baseball in batting average with RISP. They are 27th in OBP. They are getting hits when runners are on, it's just that people aren't getting on base very often.

 

Stats don't lie. That amazes me, though. Seems like they get so few clutch hits.

[IlliniKrush]

Just heard his take on Rios baserunning tonight...wow. Baseball idiocy.