Rooftop Shots Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 IFF the Sox do decide to have a fire sale, was wondering if there is any smidgen of hope at all. My question....does anyone know if any team has ever unexpectedly won the division after they had a fire sale...or even went further into the playoffs? Was just curious if anyone has ever benefitted from it when they pretty much threw in the towel. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I doubt it. When you have a fire sale, by definition it pretty much means you are getting rid of all your "name players" for prospects. And you immediately become teams like the current Astros, the Pittsburgh Pirates and Royals of the past 20 years (not counting this year). In a firesale you are acquiring young prospects who you pray work out. But as far as the present, you start losing even more games than before the firesale generally. The Miami Marlins are a good example of a firesale and what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 10:16 PM) IFF the Sox do decide to have a fire sale, was wondering if there is any smidgen of hope at all. My question....does anyone know if any team has ever unexpectedly won the division after they had a fire sale...or even went further into the playoffs? Was just curious if anyone has ever benefitted from it when they pretty much threw in the towel. Thanks. Depends if you think they are going to move all the pitching. Doubtful right? So if the position players all suck this year how much worse can it get? I'd bet on a quick turn around, knowing who our GM learned from and still takes counsel from. Plus we generally have one of the higher payrolls. Plus I think we absolutely nailed this draft...but I guess that's a few years ahead of next year. I don't think it's as bad as if we were a mid market team. No worries mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The Phillies and Brewers both made things interesting last year, but for the most part, no, teams simply do not win when they trade their best players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Teams can sometimes win big though when they make deals opposite that & trade smaller names who are in demand at the right time. Eduard Perez returned Asdrubal Cabrera, Ben Broussard brought back Shin Soo Choo, and Casey Blake turned into Carlos Santana all for the Indians alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:11 AM) Teams can sometimes win big though when they make deals opposite that & trade smaller names who are in demand at the right time. Eduard Perez returned Asdrubal Cabrera, Ben Broussard brought back Shin Soo Choo, and Casey Blake turned into Carlos Santana all for the Indians alone. Yeah, I don't think he's talking about winning trades. I have no problem dealing guys like Crain and De Aza and whoever else, and you can win big on those. Buuuuuut the Indians won 78 games the year they traded Broussard and Perez, and they won 81 games when they traded Blake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 We won't be having a fire sale though. If Hahn gets to work then we have: Crain - definitely gone Liindstrom & Thornton - wishy washy, we probably keep 1 of them if not both unless someone offers something meaningful as the Sox will want at least some vet presence in the pen; this would be a nice package deal for a team with a bad pen looking for depth, Lindstrom + Thornton + cash, with Lindstrom having an option after the year could bring back something nice Alexei - Hahn needs to deal this guy now, but I'm not sure he has the sac to do it, maybe he stays too Peavy & Rios - hard to deal these guys without asking for a large return, so there's a good chance they stay even though the rumors will be out there DeAza - ask for a good player back, but I can see him going Paulie - only if he wants to go to a contender, but wouldn't brick back anything Dunn & Keppinger - we'd need to take on salary or give up a piece to make them go away Beckham, Q, Hector, Gillaspie, Viciedo, etc. you really need to get a good young player you are really confident in to move any of these guys; obviously some have higher value than others but you don't give up any of them without getting someone you believe is part of the present & future as well, because each one, worst case, you can plug into the 2014 team Reed - this should be our wildcard, he probably stays, but throw his name out there & look to bring back a haul.... the Sox could realistically trade Crain & Reed for a very large haul combined, dump a salary, and then pay Crain to come back over the offseason & be our closer, essentially we'd be buying prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I don't disagree with any of what you said except that I don't think there's any chance pending free agent relievers stay. There's no point if you aren't going to resign them, so you just hold out for the best return. There will always be someone willing to give up something for them. I'd bet money that Lindstrom, Crain, and Thornton are all wearing different uniforms come August 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Actually it would be pretty badass of Hahn to put Crain out there right this second, look to deal him for a nice package early as the best reliever on the market, and then as soon as he's gone when everyone else is thinking about taking on a salary like Papelbon, you throw Reed out there for a really high ceiling MLB-ready position player & see if you can make that deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:43 AM) I don't disagree with any of what you said except that I don't think there's any chance pending free agent relievers stay. There's no point if you aren't going to resign them, so you just hold out for the best return. There will always be someone willing to give up something for them. I'd bet money that Lindstrom, Crain, and Thornton are all wearing different uniforms come August 1st. If the Sox get some good offers on them then I think you're right. However I doubt we'll be trading them for the likes of Jon "the Missing" Link, Michael Dubee, Brandon Hynick, etc. We're going to have to get some ceiling, otherwise there's no poiint, because a pen without those guys would be so abysmal that it would make it considerably more difficult to "fix" Nate Jones/Donnie Veal/Septimo, etc. or advance any other reliever we'd call up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:46 AM) Actually it would be pretty badass of Hahn to put Crain out there right this second, look to deal him for a nice package early as the best reliever on the market, and then as soon as he's gone when everyone else is thinking about taking on a salary like Papelbon, you throw Reed out there for a really high ceiling MLB-ready position player & see if you can make that deal It'd be ballsy, but you could get a really nice return. And, as has been pointed out ad nauseum on here, the Sox have proven capable of developing and locating bullpen arms. I'd have no problem with it. I really don't think it's going to take much longer for the first domino to fall. Trade a guy who is assuredly not going to be an all star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why don't we keep our better players and trade some that might benefit from a change of scenery and with a little tweaking be competitive in 2014? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:08 AM) Why don't we keep our better players and trade some that might benefit from a change of scenery and with a little tweaking be competitive in 2014? That's exactly what is likely to happen...but keep in mind, at least 2 relievers are free agents at the end of this year and we have 6 MLB-level starters right now with a 7th on the way. There are guys, particularly from the pitching staff, who absolutely must be moved. They're useless to us this year if we're 10 games under .500 in June/July and not in a position to compete in September. Some of these guys have to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) That's exactly what is likely to happen...but keep in mind, at least 2 relievers are free agents at the end of this year and we have 6 MLB-level starters right now with a 7th on the way. There are guys, particularly from the pitching staff, who absolutely must be moved. They're useless to us this year if we're 10 games under .500 in June/July and not in a position to compete in September. Some of these guys have to go. Keep Crain, Jones and Reed. Thornton might be in line to go as I think a minus for him is his drop in K's and I am guessing velocity. A starting pitcher might go but we need a left reliever so is that santiago or someone else? Keep Rios. Maybe Dunn unless we can get a good return for him. I think PK might be ready to either retire or be traded. They did it to the Big Hurt so PK is not exempt as much as I like him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Keep Crain, Jones and Reed. Thornton might be in line to go as I think a minus for him is his drop in K's and I am guessing velocity. A starting pitcher might go but we need a left reliever so is that santiago or someone else? Keep Rios. Maybe Dunn unless we can get a good return for him. I think PK might be ready to either retire or be traded. They did it to the Big Hurt so PK is not exempt as much as I like him Not sure why you'd keep Crain since he's a FA at the end of the year, unless he's willing to sign an extension which would be an odd thing for him to do while the team is in the midst of dumping everybody else that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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