Chicago White Sox Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) Rios' contract is good now. He's repeating his career year last year and is under contract for one more year plus an option at $12.5m per year. Over the past ten years, free agent market rates usually pay $5-7m per WAR. Rios is a 3-4 WAR OF being paid like a 2 WAR OF on a short term contract in which the second year is a team option. And it's the god damn trade deadline. So on top of Rios being a highly productive, underpaid OF with two plus years of team control, which you've shown is incredibly valuable, there is likely to be a limited supply of impact OFs available come July. Teams typically pay a premium for talent at the deadline and we have a guy who is much more than just a rental. Rios should command a very strong return. Peavy fits the same bill, but like others have already said the injury is a potential hinderance on getting full value. If that's the case, you hold on to him and consider moving another starter. I don't think you automatically have to move a starter at the deadline, but a guy like Quintana, who is young, cheap, left-handed, and under team control for multiple years, could possibly get you a king's ransom if a team is desperate for SP and doesn't want to use top prospects for a rental player. People need to put the Ray Durham fiasco behind them, because quality players are normally very expensive at the deadline. If Hahn plays the market right, he should be able to get real some nice prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 04:09 PM) At least if it were me in that chair, I'd take the best offer I could get for Peavy, Crain, and Thornton. Rios I'd take plenty of phone calls on, but he'd be the guy I'd have a threshold on; I'd want something really good in return for him. Reed, Alexei would fit in that boat as well. There is no reason to just take the best offer on Peavy. Either get a ransom for him now or hold on to him for the rest of the year. It's not like SP will be in abundance come the offseason. He'll still be an incredibly valuable pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:55 PM) There is no reason to just take the best offer on Peavy. Either get a ransom for him now or hold on to him for the rest of the year. It's not like SP will be in abundance come the offseason. He'll still be an incredibly valuable pitcher. So who goes to the bullpen in July and why is that a good idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:02 PM) So who goes to the bullpen in July and why is that a good idea? Who cares? They will be bad. Put Axelrod in the bullpen. Start the 4 lefties and Peavy. There solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 06:10 PM) Who cares? They will be bad. Put Axelrod in the bullpen. Start the 4 lefties and Peavy. There solved. That's a terrible idea. Axelrod has shown he's got it in him to be a decent starter, he's not going to light the world on fire but he's a guy who can quite readily be a 2 WAR starter and that's a great asset to have at the back of the rotation. He's a guy who can help this team turn around and could well basically provide what Gavin Floyd has provided to this team if he can last 200 innings...which of course, requires sometime giving him innings. Putting him in the bullpen sabotages that and is just as silly as putting Santiago there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) It would be insane to sell low on Peavy for the sake of keeping Axelrod comfortable. This team's success is never going to hinge on Dylan Axelrod, now or in the next 5 years. He's better than replacement level, but he is absolutely not someone to keep you from maximizing a trade return on your most valuable trade chip. EDIT: This "awesome" season he's having has him on pace for 1.2WAR. That's not even league average. I like the guy too, but the Dylan Axelrod love is a bit out of control. The guy is striking out less than 5 per 9 while walking over 3. Edited June 18, 2013 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:14 PM) That's a terrible idea. Axelrod has shown he's got it in him to be a decent starter, he's not going to light the world on fire but he's a guy who can quite readily be a 2 WAR starter and that's a great asset to have at the back of the rotation. He's a guy who can help this team turn around and could well basically provide what Gavin Floyd has provided to this team if he can last 200 innings...which of course, requires sometime giving him innings. Putting him in the bullpen sabotages that and is just as silly as putting Santiago there. So you want to sell low on Peavy in order to give Axelrod innings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:19 PM) It would be insane to sell low on Peavy for the sake of keeping Axelrod comfortable. This team's success is never going to hinge on Dylan Axelrod, now or in the next 5 years. He's better than replacement level, but he is absolutely not someone to keep you from maximizing a trade return on your most valuable trade chip. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 06:19 PM) So you want to sell low on Peavy in order to give Axelrod innings? Depending on how you define "Sell low", yes. Would you take a lesser deal on Peavy if Santiago was the one going to the bullpen? You all know he would be. Moving Peavy does a ton of things for the Sox. It clears $20 million, it clears the 6 man rotation problem that would push Santiago back to the pen in July, and hopefully does add talent even if the return isn't incredible like some of you are hoping for. That $20 million could reshape the entire offense next offseason, and could do so basically without hurting the pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:19 PM) It would be insane to sell low on Peavy for the sake of keeping Axelrod comfortable. This team's success is never going to hinge on Dylan Axelrod, now or in the next 5 years. He's better than replacement level, but he is absolutely not someone to keep you from maximizing a trade return on your most valuable trade chip. EDIT: This "awesome" season he's having has him on pace for 1.2WAR. That's not even league average. I like the guy too, but the Dylan Axelrod love is a bit out of control. The guy is striking out less than 5 per 9 while walking over 3. He should have some small value on the market. If you can get an MLB-ready bust type, or a guy who has a lot of ability but is in the low minors & doesn't project as a fast mover, or a former top prospect who is coming back from injury, etc. then you make the deal I think. I'd love for Axe to help a contender anyway. He's a winning type player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:23 PM) Depending on how you define "Sell low", yes. Would you take a lesser deal on Peavy if Santiago was the one going to the bullpen? You all know he would be. Moving Peavy does a ton of things for the Sox. It clears $20 million, it clears the 6 man rotation problem that would push Santiago back to the pen in July, and hopefully does add talent even if the return isn't incredible like some of you are hoping for. That $20 million could reshape the entire offense next offseason, and could do so basically without hurting the pitching staff. Moving Peavy is definitely going to hurt the pitching staff. He was incredible up until his last two starts, one in which he had a displaced rib, so let's not undervalue him. We do have a surplus of pitching, but Axelrod or whoever you replace him with is a signicant downgrade. I'm all for moving a starter, including Peavy, but only to add a potential impact talent for the offense. If Peavy can't get you that because of his injury, then look into dealing him in the offseason or just enjoy his surplus value next year. We can always trade another starter now or in the offseason. You definitely don't weaken your pitching staff and trade one of your best assets for below market value in order to give Axelrod some innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 06:54 PM) You definitely don't weaken your pitching staff and trade one of your best assets for below market value in order to give Axelrod some innings. You pretended my statement didn't happen. Are you ok with Santiago going back to the bullpen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:58 PM) You pretended my statement didn't happen. Are you ok with Santiago going back to the bullpen? So you are basing what you think the Sox should do assuming they will automatically make a stupid decision? When Peavy comes back, Axelrod is the guy who should get bumped from the rotation not Santiago. If that doesn't happen, that doesn't make trading Peavy for less than market value any less stupid. Edited June 18, 2013 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:58 PM) You pretended my statement didn't happen. Are you ok with Santiago going back to the bullpen? You worry about that when the time comes. These things usually work themselves out eventually. I think whoever is traded is going to be based on the return. It would be silly to move anyone just to save money. They need to get talent back. And to whoever thinks Ramirez has to go, who exactly is going to play SS? Not just the rest of this year, but for the next couple of years? The Sox have so little in house, Ramirez has to play all the time, and it's not like starting SS are abundantly available in the trade market. The Sox will be dumping some guys, but I think it will be the guys that weren't coming back in 2014. I think Peavy stays, rios stays, Ramirez stays, Reed stays, Paulie probably stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 07:10 PM) You worry about that when the time comes. These things usually work themselves out eventually. I think whoever is traded is going to be based on the return. It would be silly to move anyone just to save money. They need to get talent back. And to whoever thinks Ramirez has to go, who exactly is going to play SS? Not just the rest of this year, but for the next couple of years? The Sox have so little in house, Ramirez has to play all the time, and it's not like starting SS are abundantly available in the trade market. The Sox will be dumping some guys, but I think it will be the guys that weren't coming back in 2014. I think Peavy stays, rios stays, Ramirez stays, Reed stays, Paulie probably stays. The pickings for SS's are quite slim this offseason. Shortstops Alfredo Amezaga Clint Barmes Willie Bloomquist Jamey Carroll * Alexi Casilla * Stephen Drew Yunel Escobar * Rafael Furcal Alex Gonzalez Cesar Izturis Derek Jeter * John McDonald Jhonny Peralta Brendan Ryan If Ramirez were to go, it probably would be because the Sox got a middle infielder back in another deal somewhere. Beckham could get shifted there obviously but then we have a 2b hole, although there are more tempting expensive (Cano-laden) names at 2b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 This is what I posted in another thread a week or so ago, but it fits this thread as well.... QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 08:33 PM) Looking at these bullpen splits, a contending team w/ a terrible bullpen, not in our division appears to be the St. Louis Cardinals. A quick glance at their prospects and a wishlist I'd make for a swap for Crain would be in order.... 10) Carson Kelly, 3B, Grade B- 11) Patrick Wisdom, 3B, Grade B- 12) Stephen Piscotty, 3B, Grade B- 13) Greg Garcia, 2B-SS, Grade C+ Rankings/grades according to minorleagueball.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShandyMan Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Zack Cox would be nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (staxx @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:37 PM) Zack Cox would be nice Wasn't he DFA'd already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 02:43 PM) If we're talking to San Diego about a starting pitcher, just say f*** it and make it Peavy. There will be zero issues with it among anyone and the Padres might well pay a bit of a talent premium to get him back. This makes so much sense it's ridiculous. Another team I think maybe one other person mention is AZ. Not sure they're really sold on their bullpen. If you're relying on Putz's health and Heath Bell...well...Jesse Crain and or Thornton would look pretty nice. I still have a feeling the Dodgers make a run here soon too... Another part of me wouldn't piss on the Yankees if they were on fire. What would they honestly give up?.... I still think we should do what the Red Sox did as well...just purge salary as best as we can. To be honest...I'd be much more interested to watch the development of a young team that watch this ridiculous continuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 Peavy played under Bruce Bochy the Giants manager. They also seem like they could really use a SP. I like their uniforms, don't know if I'd like their prospects though. Hope they have someone good. Dylan Axelrod would be a big improvement for them right now. We can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 07:22 PM) Peavy played under Bruce Bochy the Giants manager. They also seem like they could really use a SP. I like their uniforms, don't know if I'd like their prospects though. Hope they have someone good. Dylan Axelrod would be a big improvement for them right now. We can do that. Axe is getting lit up again tonight. He wouldn't fetch much. He is ome guy who is probably worth more to the Sox than what they could ever expect to get back for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 Ha, I didn't even know there was a game on. Ugh. Well I looked at the Giants prospect list from Sickels, doesn't sound all that great for Peavy. Who knows though. But their SP was Ryan Vogelsong with an ERA above 7 and then it looks like Chad Gaudin started 3 games, then a prospect got his ass kicked, and plus Lincecum & Zito are still shells of their former selves. I'm sure they'd want the Jakemeister though. And I do like their uniforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:25 PM) Axe is getting lit up again tonight. He wouldn't fetch much. He is ome guy who is probably worth more to the Sox than what they could ever expect to get back for him. That's absolutely correct and will be for a long time. No one will give anything of value for him since he's not goig to wow with stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:10 PM) You worry about that when the time comes. These things usually work themselves out eventually. I think whoever is traded is going to be based on the return. It would be silly to move anyone just to save money. They need to get talent back. And to whoever thinks Ramirez has to go, who exactly is going to play SS? Not just the rest of this year, but for the next couple of years? The Sox have so little in house, Ramirez has to play all the time, and it's not like starting SS are abundantly available in the trade market. The Sox will be dumping some guys, but I think it will be the guys that weren't coming back in 2014. I think Peavy stays, rios stays, Ramirez stays, Reed stays, Paulie probably stays. Wonder what the incentive to keep Konerko is next year unless they're going to bring in a LOT of offensive talent to give a legit chance at competing again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) The Sox don't need "trading partners". That philosophy resulted in the giveaways of Quentin, Jackson, Santos et al. to our friendly trading partners. Deal with the team that offers the the best deal, regardless of whether they are Williams' friends or in our division. Who cares if they're in our division or in our league? That's Scheuler/Williams irrelevant garbage that results in less-favorable deals, but "goodwill" to their friends who stiff us. Do the deal with the team that offers the most. Period. Edited June 19, 2013 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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