StrangeSox Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 08:29 AM) Are you f***ing trolling?!?!?! Please tell me you're f***ing trolling. Had nothing to do with the decline of domestic manufacturing and the stable, well-paying careers it provided. Why's Detroit called "motor city" anyway??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 08:48 AM) Had nothing to do with the decline of domestic manufacturing and the stable, well-paying careers it provided. Why's Detroit called "motor city" anyway??? It is good for the area that the car manufacturers are thriving however only one headquarters is located downtown (GM) anymore as Ford, Chrysler, VW etc moved out to burbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 08:29 AM) Are you f***ing trolling?!?!?! Please tell me you're f***ing trolling. yeah, you're right. Detroit is such a shining example of Democratic policies and ideas in action that it should stand as a model for the rest of the country to emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 08:48 AM) Had nothing to do with the decline of domestic manufacturing and the stable, well-paying careers it provided. Why's Detroit called "motor city" anyway??? Detroit's first black major blames the '67 riots which caused massive white flight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit Crazy stat: A major change in the racial composition of the city also occurred over that same period; from 1950 to 2010 the black/white percentage of population went from 16.2%/83.6% to 82.7%/10.6%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:15 AM) yeah, you're right. Detroit is such a shining example of Democratic policies and ideas in action that it should stand as a model for the rest of the country to emulate. It's a great example of having too many people depend on a government propping them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:15 AM) yeah, you're right. Detroit is such a shining example of Democratic policies and ideas in action that it should stand as a model for the rest of the country to emulate. It's pretty silly to try to boil everything about Detroit down to "Democratic policies!" without looking at the broader economic changes, both globally and locally, that occurred over the past 50 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:24 AM) It's a great example of having too many people depend on a government propping them up. Is Detroit the way it is because too many people 'depend on a government propping them up' or do too many people have to depend on government assistance because of the way Detroit is? e.g. there's a lot of metro areas in Virginia that wouldn't exist if not for government contracts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:24 AM) It's a great example of having too many people depend on a government propping them up. The Detroit government has screwed that city up so much, just look at this f***tard. Governor Granholm was another politician that talked up getting new businesses (especially beyond auto) into the state but failed miserably. In fact, when I was in Ann Arbor from 2003-2008 they lost major companies in that area such as Pfizer and Comerica Bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) The Detroit government has screwed that city up so much, just look at this f***tard. Governor Granholm was another politician that talked up getting new businesses (especially beyond auto) into the state but failed miserably. In fact, when I was in Ann Arbor from 2003-2008 they lost major companies in that area such as Pfizer and Comerica Bank. They ended up moving a majority of their folks out of the state. Ford built a giant campus outside of detroit, Chrysler moved from the iconic building to Auburn Hills, and so on. Right now companies like Quicken are trying to change the culture by pulling other companies back in but its been very very slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) Is Detroit the way it is because too many people 'depend on a government propping them up' or do too many people have to depend on government assistance because of the way Detroit is? e.g. there's a lot of metro areas in Virginia that wouldn't exist if not for government contracts The government, whether it was republican or democrat, relied too much on the Auto industry in that area. Once that fell, the city had nothing to fall back on. I'm sure the same would happen if the federal government moved out of DC. It's poor planning by everyone, including the people. Blue collar workers relied on 100k jobs being around for high school graduates. As awesome as though jobs were to get, barely anyone had any marketable skills when those jobs were cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:22 AM) Detroit's first black major blames the '67 riots which caused massive white flight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit Crazy stat: Yeah, white flight and the impoverization of urban areas that resulted in a critical factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:42 AM) They ended up moving a majority of their folks out of the state. Ford built a giant campus outside of detroit, Chrysler moved from the iconic building to Auburn Hills, and so on. Right now companies like Quicken are trying to change the culture by pulling other companies back in but its been very very slow. Comerica's HQ is now in Dallas. And it's not like there is a lack of young, cheap talent in the area. You have both UMich and Mich State that could funnel some of the brightest graduates into the city but there isn't enough to keep them around. Quicken is pretty interesting, from what I was told they hire hundres if not thousands of interns every summer from a lot of the state colleges. I have no idea what their intern to fulltime rate is but it's an interesting strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) Comerica's HQ is now in Dallas. And it's not like there is a lack of young, cheap talent in the area. You have both UMich and Mich State that could funnel some of the brightest graduates into the city but there isn't enough to keep them around. Quicken is pretty interesting, from what I was told they hire hundres if not thousands of interns every summer from a lot of the state colleges. I have no idea what their intern to fulltime rate is but it's an interesting strategy. Yeah I still work with IT in detroit (luckily) but that was a big loss. Quicken has like 15 companies under them including Fat Head etc and they bring in alot of young talent (the office looks like google). He already has roughly 4 buildings full of them downtown around the compuware building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:43 AM) The government, whether it was republican or democrat, relied too much on the Auto industry in that area. Once that fell, the city had nothing to fall back on. I'm sure the same would happen if the federal government moved out of DC. That didn't just happen to Detroit and the auto industry, though. The Rust Belt was driven by manufacturing and the whole area is still suffering from the effects of globalization and the decline of domestic manufacturing. Whether or not globalization is a net-positive for society is a different discussion from the effects that it has had on a given area, though. It's poor planning by everyone, including the people. Blue collar workers relied on 100k jobs being around for high school graduates. As awesome as though jobs were to get, barely anyone had any marketable skills when those jobs were cut. If you have three generations of people getting good careers with good pay and benefits, why should you be faulted for pursuing that path? The entire sector collapsed, and I don't think that's something you could expect a random 18 year old with generational ties to a plant to predict. If it had just been automotive manufacturing decline, they would still have had lots of manufacturing and line-work experience. They had good, marketable skills, but suddenly there was no market for them. This is happening more and more these days even with college degrees, except those come with the lovely bonus of crushing student loan debt for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) The plan only works if you do more than "incentivize". It has to be eminent domain, for the good of public safety. Has to not be a choice, though you can say you are going to force it eventually, but if you line up first you get better choices of where you go. This would of course result in all manner of court battles, over just how far eminent domain can go. Judging by a few past cases I am aware of, it probably can work, but they will have to battle to get through the first wave. It isn't likely to happen. Just what I'd like to see happen. In this day and age, eminent domain would work easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Word is now that Detroit will file for bankruptcy tomorrow. Would be far and away the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history. It will be ugly for a while, but on the other side, they get to start with a nearly clean slate financially. One would hope they'd use that truly unique opportunity to not just go back to doing the same stuff, but really saying... how would you start a brand new city TODAY, ideally? And go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Word is now that Detroit will file for bankruptcy tomorrow. Would be far and away the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history. It will be ugly for a while, but on the other side, they get to start with a nearly clean slate financially. One would hope they'd use that truly unique opportunity to not just go back to doing the same stuff, but really saying... how would you start a brand new city TODAY, ideally? And go from there. They can sell back their houses and hotels for half price, and mortgage all their streets, or have they already done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 01:33 PM) Word is now that Detroit will file for bankruptcy tomorrow. Would be far and away the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history. It will be ugly for a while, but on the other side, they get to start with a nearly clean slate financially. One would hope they'd use that truly unique opportunity to not just go back to doing the same stuff, but really saying... how would you start a brand new city TODAY, ideally? And go from there. If they could figure out a way to fund the renewal, it would be an unprecedented opportunity. What was the last planned large city in the US? DC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) [/b] If they could figure out a way to fund the renewal, it would be an unprecedented opportunity. What was the last planned large city in the US? DC? I'd love to get in on something like that if I had a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 01:56 PM) [/b] If they could figure out a way to fund the renewal, it would be an unprecedented opportunity. What was the last planned large city in the US? DC? Chicago after the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) Chicago after the fire. Good call. We can thank that for a great gridded street system and alley's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 02:05 PM) I'd love to get in on something like that if I had a lot of money. There's a novel idea in there somewhere. Allow small investors to buy into the rebuild in some fashion, providing small returns on investment. Instead of just interest on loans, they could offer a similar interest rate, plus some part of growth in tax revenue over time. Like a bond-plus instrument of a sort. I would bet they could get lots of people to buy in, enough that as a block, that could be a useful chunk of money for the city. You could even give the instrument voting rights on certain key decisions, to guide certain aspects of policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 03:35 PM) There's a novel idea in there somewhere. Allow small investors to buy into the rebuild in some fashion, providing small returns on investment. Instead of just interest on loans, they could offer a similar interest rate, plus some part of growth in tax revenue over time. Like a bond-plus instrument of a sort. I would bet they could get lots of people to buy in, enough that as a block, that could be a useful chunk of money for the city. You could even give the instrument voting rights on certain key decisions, to guide certain aspects of policy. It's worth investing in. Obviously, bankruptcy is a bad thing and obviously it is going to cause real pain for some people, but it's not necessarily the end. It gives an opportunity to start over and start really putting the city back together. I know people have been trying to do that but of course it's a lot more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) If they can't meet revenue requirements now, what makes you think they'll do it in the future to pay these bond-like instruments? Will bankruptcy get them out of the red? Edited July 18, 2013 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Isn't it pretty much the whole point of filing for bankruptcy to answer a question like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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