Buddy Bell watching Johnson start

[southsider2k5]

Buddy Bell on WhiteSoxWeekly mentioned he is going to see Erik Johnsons 1st start at AAA. How often does the Ast GM go to personally see one of his minor league starters pitch? I'm guessing this is a prelude to a starter being dealt.

 

He also mentioned Daniel Webb specifically as someone with closer stuff, but they are working on his pitches being less straight and having more depth.

[winninguglyin83]

When is Johnson making his first start for Charlotte?

 

I believe they play in Indianapolis Saturday, Sunday, Monday and then four games in Louisville.

[Balta1701]

I have said this several times, but I really believe the FO may deal Reed this winter. If KW still has significant pull you know that there is a history of moving a closer when the team isn't considered a contender. To be honest, I really agree with that strategy. Reed is replaceable, whether it be Webb or a veteran signing, I don't think we would lose much considering our great track record with pitchers/closers. Jenks, Santos, Reed being of the youngin variety and Hermanson, Shingo, Putz being of the veteran route.

 

Case and point, if next year is a transition/rebuild/throw away/retool/whatever you want to call it year, I think it would be in our best interest to sell high on Reed and I am in no way someone who wants to trade away everyone.

I wonder if "closer" isn't one of those positions you're better off trading mid-season rather than during the offseason. Right now, teams like Detroit are sitting there crapping their pants every time the 9th inning comes along. During the offseason teams will convince themselves they have it taken care of with some rookie or converted setup man, and then a few will wind up in panic mode.

[caulfield12]

I wonder if "closer" isn't one of those positions you're better off trading mid-season rather than during the offseason. Right now, teams like Detroit are sitting there crapping their pants every time the 9th inning comes along. During the offseason teams will convince themselves they have it taken care of with some rookie or converted setup man, and then a few will wind up in panic mode.

 

 

There is that...getting caught in the "day to day" psychology of the team beginning to lose confidence in leads late in games.

 

It seemed so easy to just throw out that name Rondon in the off-season, but that experiment didn't last long at all. Really difficult for Leyland, just like Ozzie, to trust rookies or inexperienced players.

 

I think Addison's done about as well as can be expected this year...but how much better could he possibly be? Unless he ever perfects that slider to where it's as good as Crain's off-speed stuff now, he's going to struggle behind in counts because his fastball and command with it just aren't quite sharp enough.

[Jerksticks]

I wonder if "closer" isn't one of those positions you're better off trading mid-season rather than during the offseason. Right now, teams like Detroit are sitting there crapping their pants every time the 9th inning comes along. During the offseason teams will convince themselves they have it taken care of with some rookie or converted setup man, and then a few will wind up in panic mode.

 

 

I agree here. Talk isn't as cheap with closers this time of year. Which teams are bleeding wins late right now? Boston, Detroit...im sure we'd all prefer an NL partner.

[Jerksticks]

There is that...getting caught in the "day to day" psychology of the team beginning to lose confidence in leads late in games.

 

It seemed so easy to just throw out that name Rondon in the off-season, but that experiment didn't last long at all. Really difficult for Leyland, just like Ozzie, to trust rookies or inexperienced players.

 

I think Addison's done about as well as can be expected this year...but how much better could he possibly be? Unless he ever perfects that slider to where it's as good as Crain's off-speed stuff now, he's going to struggle behind in counts because his fastball and command with it just aren't quite sharp enough.

 

Totally agree about Reed. So do you think we can sell highest on him and his iffy command now? I kinda but into that position.

[caulfield12]

Totally agree about Reed. So do you think we can sell highest on him and his iffy command now? I kinda but into that position.

 

 

I have no idea how much OTHER teams value Reed.

 

Sometimes you miss the forest for the trees when the player's from your favorite team. You are more likely to notice all his flaws, and miss some of his strengths. The reverse always happens with other fans, overvaluing every single player, especially when they've been incubated and risen through your own farm system and you feel more pride in them than perhaps players who come from outside the organization.

 

It's DEFINITELY worth exploring/listening to.

[Quin]

The difference between Santos being traded and Reed being traded is Reed was our #1 prospect at the time and Daniel Webb certainly is not.

[caulfield12]

The difference between Santos being traded and Reed being traded is Reed was our #1 prospect at the time and Daniel Webb certainly is not.

 

 

Were Howry, Foulke, Damaso Marte, Shingo Takatsu, Jenks (as a reliever and not a starter), Matt Thornton (as a reliever and not a starter), Sergio Santos (as a reliever and not a SS) or Hector Santiago ever #1 prospects?

 

The irony is the most ballyhooed closer prospect was Koch, who was the biggest failure for the SOX. Tom Gordon and Dustin Hermanson were also once top 50 prospects in the game, but that was earlier in their careers as starting pitchers.

 

And the other key difference is the team's top priority going into 2014 realistically isn't competing for the division crown, like it still was when Reed assumed that role....unless something changes dramatically in the next 9 months that we've seen no sign of yet from the new Hahn/JR administration.

 

The point is there's no reason in our recent history to believe we don't have another closer who will be even better sitting somewhere in the minors....whether it's Webb, Santos Rodriguez, Petricka, Simon Castro, Rienzo, our 2nd draft pick this year, Hansen, he's undoubtedly already there and we just don't realize it yet.

 

 

[Quin]

Were Howry, Foulke, Damaso Marte, Shingo Takatsu, Jenks (as a reliever and not a starter), Matt Thornton (as a reliever and not a starter), Sergio Santos (as a reliever and not a SS) or Hector Santiago ever #1 prospects?

 

The irony is the most ballyhooed closer prospect was Koch, who was the biggest failure for the SOX. Tom Gordon and Dustin Hermanson were also once top 50 prospects in the game, but that was earlier in their careers as starting pitchers.

 

And the other key difference is the team's top priority going into 2014 realistically isn't competing for the division crown, like it still was when Reed assumed that role....unless something changes dramatically in the next 9 months that we've seen no sign of yet from the new Hahn/JR administration.

 

The point is there's no reason in our recent history to believe we don't have another closer who will be even better sitting somewhere in the minors....whether it's Webb, Santos Rodriguez, Petricka, Simon Castro, Rienzo, our 2nd draft pick this year, Hansen, he's undoubtedly already there and we just don't realize it yet.

 

And there is no guarantee any of those could step in and be a good closer next year (Petricka? Really?)

 

Thornton and Santiago were terrible closers.

 

Shingo was brought over from Japan, so it's not like was an unknown.

 

Really, the only two you can point to are Jenks and Sergio.

[caulfield12]

And there is no guarantee any of those could step in and be a good closer next year (Petricka? Really?)

 

Thornton and Santiago were terrible closers.

 

Shingo was brought over from Japan, so it's not like was an unknown.

 

Really, the only two you can point to are Jenks and Sergio.

 

 

Shingo wasn't unknown in Japan, but when your #1 pitch is/was a 67-70 MPH frisbee slider...well, he proved that almost ANYONE can be an effective closer for XXX amount of time before the league adjusts.

 

Case in point, Jason Grilli.

 

Takatsu brings up a good point...there's no reason we can't go out and sign another Japanese League (or Korean) veteran reliever and install him as the closer, we have some international options, as well as all the trade returns we're going to get in the next 6 weeks.

 

Plus, we're going to need all the help we can get in the marketing department the next 24 months.

Edited June 22, 2013 by caulfield12

[The Ultimate Champion]

I wonder if there's some thought in the organization about trading Reed, grooming Danish quickly in the minors to fill that role immediately kind of like Sale, work with him on his mechanics piece by piece at the MLB level ala Sale, then try to convert him to a starter in the big leagues.

[The Ultimate Champion]

^Because if they think they could do something like that then it makes sense, and would be a terrific use of a 2nd round pick. And wouldn't the Sox see their best pitching guys as Coop & Thiggy? Both with the MLB team.

[danman31]

And there is no guarantee any of those could step in and be a good closer next year (Petricka? Really?)

In fairness, Petricka has been pretty good in AA this year. I don't think he's closer material and he obviously still needs to improve his control, but he's still a solid relief prospect in the high minors.

[oldsox]

I wonder if there's some thought in the organization about trading Reed, grooming Danish quickly in the minors to fill that role immediately kind of like Sale, work with him on his mechanics piece by piece at the MLB level ala Sale, then try to convert him to a starter in the big leagues.

Geez. Danish hasn't thrown his first pitch yet in pro ball.

[Dick Allen]

Addison Reed is 24 years old, strikes out more than one an inning, has a WHIP below 1.00, and has 21 saves for a last place team not even halfway through the season. Why would you want to trade that, and how much better does he have to be? Take away the one game he blew the huge lead, and you are talking All Star.

Anyone complaining about his performance will not be happy with the players they would get back for him.

[Jake]

I definitely think closers are way overvalued, but I don't see a reason to trade Reed when we already plan to decimate our bullpen, he is under team control for a long time, and there is no apparent heir. I'd rather trade a guy who is about to get paid, is being paid a lot, is someone who is unlikely to repeat his success (Santos), or is blocking another exciting arm.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Addison Reed is 24 years old, strikes out more than one an inning, has a WHIP below 1.00, and has 21 saves for a last place team not even halfway through the season. Why would you want to trade that, and how much better does he have to be? Take away the one game he blew the huge lead, and you are talking All Star.

Anyone complaining about his performance will not be happy with the players they would get back for him.

He doesn't have to be any better than he is.

 

Question, do you think he can sustain this level of success? Because I still don't, I still think he's an average closer. I'd trade him because I would be very willing to bet that by the time the Sox are highly competitive again, even if it's only 2 seasons from now, we will have found an equal or better replacement. If Addison brings back an MLB ready position player with a high ceiling and a pretty decent floor, who will see good time this season, then it's a no-brainer IMO. Addison doesn't have an otherworldly arm & an equal or better quality starting position player is are going to be more valuable in general, especially to us because we can't seem to develop position players worth a s*** on our own.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Geez. Danish hasn't thrown his first pitch yet in pro ball.

I know but I'm excited about him, he's a really interesting pick & I like him better than Anderson. He's my favorite pick of this class. If he can throw strikes I'd wager that he can get MLB hitters out right now. Is he ready? Probably not, but just a guess.

 

Before Sale the Sox didn't seem to take players like this at all, but maybe now they're thinking along the lines of rushing them & taking advantage of their arms before they get hurt. I mean, if I guy gets hurt during the first 5 years of his career, what do you owe him? A few million maybe plus his bonus? He's pre-arb for 3.

[Dick Allen]

He doesn't have to be any better than he is.

 

Question, do you think he can sustain this level of success? Because I still don't, I still think he's an average closer. I'd trade him because I would be very willing to bet that by the time the Sox are highly competitive again, even if it's only 2 seasons from now, we will have found an equal or better replacement. If Addison brings back an MLB ready position player with a high ceiling and a pretty decent floor, who will see good time this season, then it's a no-brainer IMO. Addison doesn't have an otherworldly arm & an equal or better quality starting position player is are going to be more valuable in general, especially to us because we can't seem to develop position players worth a s*** on our own.

 

You are basing this off nothing. He is allowing fewer hits, striking out more and walking less than last year. He has been way better than an average closer, and at 24 there is no reason to think he has reached his peak. Again, if you think Reed is nothing more than average, chances are it will be next to impossible to think you would think anyone they got for him would be anything more than average. He's having a great season. He's controlled cheaply. If you trade him, it makes zero sense not to trade Sale.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Dick Allen

[The Ultimate Champion]

Huh?

 

There's a huge difference between Sale & Reed. Sale is a building block, Reed is a part. Reed rocketed through the minors and barely made the top-100 prospect lists. He has a closer's mentality but just recently Bobby Jenks, Sale, Santos all had much better stuff. He's not that kind of arm. You're selling high because you need talent, and because you should be able to fill out that role during the regular process of auditioning power arms which is inherit to really every rebuilding/reloading project.

 

Also, unlike starting pitchers, closers quickly make their market rates through arbitration. You can't even expect the typical 6 years from a young closer, it's more like 5 and maybe 6, because of arb. There's no reason to hang on to him.

[caulfield12]

Huh?

 

There's a huge difference between Sale & Reed. Sale is a building block, Reed is a part. Reed rocketed through the minors and barely made the top-100 prospect lists. He has a closer's mentality but just recently Bobby Jenks, Sale, Santos all had much better stuff. He's not that kind of arm. You're selling high because you need talent, and because you should be able to fill out that role during the regular process of auditioning power arms which is inherit to really every rebuilding/reloading project.

 

Also, unlike starting pitchers, closers quickly make their market rates through arbitration. You can't even expect the typical 6 years from a young closer, it's more like 5 and maybe 6, because of arb. There's no reason to hang on to him.

 

i think you meant "inherent"

[The Ultimate Champion]

Yes I did. Thank you very much Mr. Caulfield for correcting me.

[Dick Allen]

Huh?

 

There's a huge difference between Sale & Reed. Sale is a building block, Reed is a part. Reed rocketed through the minors and barely made the top-100 prospect lists. He has a closer's mentality but just recently Bobby Jenks, Sale, Santos all had much better stuff. He's not that kind of arm. You're selling high because you need talent, and because you should be able to fill out that role during the regular process of auditioning power arms which is inherit to really every rebuilding/reloading project.

 

Also, unlike starting pitchers, closers quickly make their market rates through arbitration. You can't even expect the typical 6 years from a young closer, it's more like 5 and maybe 6, because of arb. There's no reason to hang on to him.

Trading away good, young ,cheap players for prospects,is a terrible way to rebuild. I guess people around here really like guys like Nestor Molina and Simon Castro. Personally, unless the Sox see some sort of injury about to happen, guys like Reed are guys I would love to keep around. Detroit, where money is no problem, would love to have Reed, and your baseless claim of his averageness, closing out games. Bullpens are a crapshoot, but the guys you can count on every year are pretty valuable. Saying there is no reason to hang on to him is ridiculous.

[winninguglyin83]

1. You have to keep Reed. He's been effective. He is affordable. He has been durable. And he is still learning and tring to improve.

 

2. It's silly to even suggest a high school kid can come into the big leagues and pitch effectively. Danish has a long way to go.

 

3. Back to my original question: Does anybody know when Johnson is scheduled to pitch for Charlotte?