Buddy Bell watching Johnson start

[Balta1701]

I honestly think Castellanos is perfect value for Reed, though in a vacuum I would try to acquire another low level prospect as well. The problem is that I don't think the Tigers need a young, stud closer in Reed so badly that they feel the need to trade away their best prospect and arguably a top 20 prospect in the game to a rival.

 

I mean, this seems like you are going to an extreme in petitioning and debating the merits of this deal when, really, there's probably a 1 in 1,000,000 chance this deal comes to fruition.

This. The only thing I'd add is "if the White Sox can't get this kind of value, there's no reason to trade Reed".

[The Ultimate Champion]

I honestly think Castellanos is perfect value for Reed, though in a vacuum I would try to acquire another low level prospect as well. The problem is that I don't think the Tigers need a young, stud closer in Reed so badly that they feel the need to trade away their best prospect and arguably a top 20 prospect in the game to a rival.

 

I mean, this seems like you are going to an extreme in petitioning and debating the merits of this deal when, really, there's probably a 1 in 1,000,000 chance this deal comes to fruition.

So then, if the Sox find a team who offers them a prospect/young player who they like just as much as you like Castellanos, someone also with a high ceiling who ialso s pretty close, should they trade Reed in that deal?

Edited June 26, 2013 by The Ultimate Champion

[Chicago White Sox]

So then, if the Sox find a team who offers them a prospect/young player who they like just as much as you like Castellanos, someone also with a high ceiling who ialso s pretty close, should they trade Reed in that deal?

Of course and I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.

[Eminor3rd]

Let's just tackle the most glaring issue here: your view of Castellanos as a prospect & your idea of his value.

 

What is this based on?

 

Are you a professional scout?

 

Do you have any real reason, aside from a few snippets of scouting video you may have seen, or the "general consensus" among baseball writers, which you have read, and which almost always are a composite of several different opinions over different periods of time, to personally believe that Nick Castellanos should be viewed as a player who is so valuable, and enough of a sure thing, that he should even be viewed as equal to Addison Reed, who is a proven MLB closer? Just an equal now?

 

Because personally all I see is another highly rated prospect who is going to have to come to the big leagues and prove his worth. Unless you have some incredible scouting knowledge which I do not have, and which I doubt anyone here has, you really have no reason to believe that a Reed for Castellanos deal benefits ANYONE at the moment other than the Tigers, because they are getting a proven player.

 

Every single year around the deadline it is the same general conversation. OMG this prospect is so great, yadda yadda yadda, and most of them fall off. It's always risky trading for them, but unfortunately the Sox are so bad right now that they pretty much have to. Unless you have a crystal ball or a really good deck of magical talking tarot cards, you DO NOT have any clue what kind of contributions Nick Castellanos is ever going to make at the MLB level.

 

-----

 

And as for the rest of your post, it all relates to your own personal reasoning for believing Castellanos is so special. You're saying Castellanos is overpaying? What are you basing that on? If Castellanos is out there on the block for a closer - and there is a report that he is, for the right deal if necessary - then our people are going to have their own very real opinions on his abilities as a player & the likelihood of his success at the MLB level. And none of those opinions are going to come from someone else's blog either. If the Sox believe that one of the Tigers prospects out there may be available, and this player might be a real difference maker, then they should take a shot. Because they have to take risks, because they need the talent, because they don't have the farm system, because they don't have many valuable pieces to trade, and because a starting pitcher or a starting position player who is very good is worth more than a closer.

 

Lastly, no matter where you get your information, absolutely NO ONE knows more about Nick Castellanos than the people in the Tigers organization, period. ***IF*** the Tigers people are making him available AT ALL, then it means that they themselves have questions. Why do they have those questions?

 

I don't disagree with any of this. Your assessment of my knowledge on Castellanos is correct. But, I'm taking it one step further by observing precedent to form my opinion since I have no access to ML front offices. I believe Castellanos' value is high because I have observed that the value of top 30 hitting prospects that are in AAA and major league ready is higher than that of a half decent closer with less team control remaining. It is certainly possible that the Tigers think he's overrated and the White Sox don't, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that is the case. However, there's tons of evidence (from past trades over the past 5-10 years) that suggests that guys like Castellanos (or guys described like Castellanos by the media the I read) are worth much more. Therefore, I think there is no chance for this trade. ESPECIALLY given that there is no reason for the Tigers to be so desperate, what with so many other options available.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah no argument. I really like Reed as a White Sox fan, but I have no problem with that whatsoever. If the Nats offered Rendon for Reed (hypothetically, obviously, their bullpen is fine), then yeah, I'd have no problem with such a deal whatsoever.

[harfman77]

I'd say call the Red Sox and ask for an IF, they need some long term solution at the back of the pen and have some pretty intriguing offensive prospects. Perhaps even Middlebrooks if they have soured on him enough. The deal I would love to see is to swap Reed to TB for Guerrieri.

[Jerksticks]

Personally, Addison makes me super nervous every single time. Like, why do you let guys get on base man? Close the f***in door.

 

So to sell high on him would be a dream come true for me, but at a premium, since he's young and relatively proven himself.

 

But I understand why some people want to keep him too. I trust in KW.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I don't disagree with any of this. Your assessment of my knowledge on Castellanos is correct. But, I'm taking it one step further by observing precedent to form my opinion since I have no access to ML front offices. I believe Castellanos' value is high because I have observed that the value of top 30 hitting prospects that are in AAA and major league ready is higher than that of a half decent closer with less team control remaining. It is certainly possible that the Tigers think he's overrated and the White Sox don't, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that is the case. However, there's tons of evidence (from past trades over the past 5-10 years) that suggests that guys like Castellanos (or guys described like Castellanos by the media the I read) are worth much more. Therefore, I think there is no chance for this trade. ESPECIALLY given that there is no reason for the Tigers to be so desperate, what with so many other options available.

I agree he has a high amount of value.

 

There is also a precedent of MLB teams drafting players well higher or than what is out there in print; there's a precedent of mainstream writers heavily underrating and overrating prospects while MLB FO react very differently (nobody biting on Olt over the offseason on a big deal as one example, then his numbers falling off in Triple A this year) etc.

 

Let's just call a truce on this, and I will ask you the same basic question as above, being that if the Sox get offered a player they like as much as you like Castellanos, do you make that deal?

 

Because I believe that Reed's value is also very high, and that it's higher mid-season, that it's likely higher now than it ever will be because he's farther from arbitration now than he will be tomorrow, and that his value is higher to a team in desperate need of a closer, and further, that in the right situation (Illitch for example acting as a GM) Addison can bring back a player who has the potential to be far more valuable than he is worth to us.

 

We've been fighting like dogs all day, rolling around in the muck, scratching & biting, you've sniffed a couple of places you shouldn't have but if that's a dominance thing I understand, but I offer this truce because I'm ready to move on assuming you say you would 1) put Addison out there on the block IF you can bring back what you would consider a Castellanos return, and that 2) you would make that deal.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Yeah no argument. I really like Reed as a White Sox fan, but I have no problem with that whatsoever. If the Nats offered Rendon for Reed (hypothetically, obviously, their bullpen is fine), then yeah, I'd have no problem with such a deal whatsoever.

Then why the f*** did YOU VOTE NO JUST TO SPITE ME!?!?!?

 

You're a mod, I expect better of you! Please go back and change your vote to YES as I had specifically requested (the poll is in another thread).

 

I never once said we should heavily shop Reed' for scraps. You admitted Castellanos was a fair, high value return. That's specifically the question I asked. And yes I have been setting you up for this the whole time.

[witesoxfan]

Then why the f*** did YOU VOTE NO JUST TO SPITE ME!?!?!?

 

You're a mod, I expect better of you! Please go back and change your vote to YES as I had specifically requested (the poll is in another thread).

 

I never once said we should heavily shop Reed' for scraps. You admitted Castellanos was a fair, high value return. That's specifically the question I asked. And yes I have been setting you up for this the whole time.

 

I can't change it, but I will see what I can do.

[caulfield12]

If I'm the Tigers, I would take Glen Perkins before I would go after Addison Reed.

 

Depends on their scouts, GM, and players...they're equally familiar with both players.

[Eminor3rd]

I agree he has a high amount of value.

 

There is also a precedent of MLB teams drafting players well higher or than what is out there in print; there's a precedent of mainstream writers heavily underrating and overrating prospects while MLB FO react very differently (nobody biting on Olt over the offseason on a big deal as one example, then his numbers falling off in Triple A this year) etc.

 

Let's just call a truce on this, and I will ask you the same basic question as above, being that if the Sox get offered a player they like as much as you like Castellanos, do you make that deal?

 

Because I believe that Reed's value is also very high, and that it's higher mid-season, that it's likely higher now than it ever will be because he's farther from arbitration now than he will be tomorrow, and that his value is higher to a team in desperate need of a closer, and further, that in the right situation (Illitch for example acting as a GM) Addison can bring back a player who has the potential to be far more valuable than he is worth to us.

 

We've been fighting like dogs all day, rolling around in the muck, scratching & biting, you've sniffed a couple of places you shouldn't have but if that's a dominance thing I understand, but I offer this truce because I'm ready to move on assuming you say you would 1) put Addison out there on the block IF you can bring back what you would consider a Castellanos return, and that 2) you would make that deal.

 

Truce. Yes, I'd make that deal. I only fall on the side of keeping Reed because I don't think a deal of that magnitude is available with so many alternative RPs on the market -- but if Reed can go for a top 30-ish hitting prospect, I'd do it. I think most of Reed's value is in his team control rather than his ability to be an impact player.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Truce. Yes, I'd make that deal. I only fall on the side of keeping Reed because I don't think a deal of that magnitude is available with so many alternative RPs on the market -- but if Reed can go for a top 30-ish hitting prospect, I'd do it. I think most of Reed's value is in his team control rather than his ability to be an impact player.

I completely understand if you don't think we'll be able to get out of Reed what we should get out of Reed. If not, I am 100% on your side, you don't give him away, you don't trade him just to trade him.