You = Hahn. Do you heavily shop Reed, Yes or No?

[witesoxfan]

For 2 and a club option, I'll take Granderson, but does it have to be either/or? I'd take both at those deals.

[Balta1701]

For 2 and a club option, I'll take Granderson, but does it have to be either/or? I'd take both at those deals.

Depends on who we move this deadline

[harfman77]

With this pitching staff and the money coming off the books this year, there is zero reason why this team cannot attempt to be competitive in 2014. Between guys added in trades this deadline and having money to spend this offseason, the Sox have the ability to fill the holes on their offense and make themselves a formidable team.

 

Of course, they also need to remember how to catch the f***ing ball. If they can't do that, they could do lots of upgrades and still fail, because high-schoolers play the game with better fundamentals than this team.

 

It really depends who is left on the roster at the end of the year. If you move two starters along with Rios, Ramirez, and Beckham, there are additional holes to fill and the offense will take a step back. If the Sox do sell like that, I think you will see them sign some guys to 1 year deals on the cheap so that they can re-build value and the Sox can have a semi competitive team. Like perhaps Corey Hart and Ryan Madson if they have to sit out the year, allow them to build value and trade them at the deadline next year.

 

They can fill some holes, but are they going to fill enough to catch the Tigers, Rangers, Yankees, Orioles, Rays, Blue Jays, Red Sox, and probably the Angels once they get things figured out?

 

The danger here is being in no mans land, just good enough to be competitive but not good enough to make the playoffs. If you are going to be bad, be bad. Accumulate talent in the draft and through international free agency and bank money to trade for established players. Free agency has never been real kind to the Sox, partially because the team has refused to work with the agent that represents a good percentage of baseballs elite players.

[Balta1701]

It really depends who is left on the roster at the end of the year. If you move two starters along with Rios, Ramirez, and Beckham, there are additional holes to fill and the offense will take a step back. If the Sox do sell like that, I think you will see them sign some guys to 1 year deals on the cheap so that they can re-build value and the Sox can have a semi competitive team. Like perhaps Corey Hart and Ryan Madson if they have to sit out the year, allow them to build value and trade them at the deadline next year.

 

They can fill some holes, but are they going to fill enough to catch the Tigers, Rangers, Yankees, Orioles, Rays, Blue Jays, Red Sox, and probably the Angels once they get things figured out?

 

The danger here is being in no mans land, just good enough to be competitive but not good enough to make the playoffs. If you are going to be bad, be bad. Accumulate talent in the draft and through international free agency and bank money to trade for established players. Free agency has never been real kind to the Sox, partially because the team has refused to work with the agent that represents a good percentage of baseballs elite players.

If the Sox find deals of the sort that make it worth it for them to move Rios, Ramirez, and Beckham, as well as 2 starting pitchers, then yes, it will be very unlikely for them to compete next year...but at the same time, they ought to come out of those deals absolutely loaded. There's no reason for them to move Rios and "look out I'm coming for the ball" unless they get really good offers for them, and Ramirez i'd say they only barely have a good reason to move.

 

If they move those guys it makes competing next year much more difficult, but they ought to come out of those deals with an absolutely stocked minor league system. If that system isn't ready to compete next year, i can live with that, play the kids for next year and then have even more money to spend in 2015 when Dunn comes off the books.

[harfman77]

So if you had to choose between Curtis Granderson for more money per year but 2 years and a club option for 2016 (w/ buyout) or Kendrys Morales for 3 guaranteed years at the same total amount as Granderson, which would you choose?

 

At this point, I would lean toward Morales. Granderson seems to be on the decline and players whose top tool is speed tend to decline at a faster rate once they are in their 30's. Sure he still has pretty good power from the left side, but that is definitely aided by the little league park he plays in now. Morales is still in his prime, three years younger, and makes more consistent contact.

[harfman77]

If the Sox find deals of the sort that make it worth it for them to move Rios, Ramirez, and Beckham, as well as 2 starting pitchers, then yes, it will be very unlikely for them to compete next year...but at the same time, they ought to come out of those deals absolutely loaded. There's no reason for them to move Rios and "look out I'm coming for the ball" unless they get really good offers for them, and Ramirez i'd say they only barely have a good reason to move.

 

If they move those guys it makes competing next year much more difficult, but they ought to come out of those deals with an absolutely stocked minor league system. If that system isn't ready to compete next year, i can live with that, play the kids for next year and then have even more money to spend in 2015 when Dunn comes off the books.

 

Thats where I think they are headed. I think they will come out of the trade deadline with some players that are probably a year away from being able to contribute and won't want to spend much money to block the players they acquire. Once Dunn is off the books, they have a ton of payroll flexibility to acquire established players and will have a deep farm system in which to acquire them with. I see 2015 being "these kids can play 2.0".

[witesoxfan]

At this point, I would lean toward Morales. Granderson seems to be on the decline and players whose top tool is speed tend to decline at a faster rate once they are in their 30's. Sure he still has pretty good power from the left side, but that is definitely aided by the little league park he plays in now. Morales is still in his prime, three years younger, and makes more consistent contact.

 

I actually think athletic players tend to age well. I don't classify Granderson as a 40 homer guy, even though he did it twice recently, but he is a 25-30 homer guy with gap to gap power.

 

The fear is that his bat speed will further slow down, which will further reduce his contact rate. More than anything else, that's my biggest fear regarding Curtis Granderson.

[Balta1701]

I actually think athletic players tend to age well. I don't classify Granderson as a 40 homer guy, even though he did it twice recently, but he is a 25-30 homer guy with gap to gap power.

 

The fear is that his bat speed will further slow down, which will further reduce his contact rate. More than anything else, that's my biggest fear regarding Curtis Granderson.

Do you think that spending part of his time as a DH would help with that? That's my hope with him, the Sox could use a DH after 2014 and hopefully 2015 is when we start seeing the first of the OF's in the minors (Trayce) arriving.

[southsider2k5]

Let's just remember that tonight's blown save for Addison doesn't count.

 

This game is a great example of box scores lying.

[caulfield12]

It really depends who is left on the roster at the end of the year. If you move two starters along with Rios, Ramirez, and Beckham, there are additional holes to fill and the offense will take a step back. If the Sox do sell like that, I think you will see them sign some guys to 1 year deals on the cheap so that they can re-build value and the Sox can have a semi competitive team. Like perhaps Corey Hart and Ryan Madson if they have to sit out the year, allow them to build value and trade them at the deadline next year.

 

They can fill some holes, but are they going to fill enough to catch the Tigers, Rangers, Yankees, Orioles, Rays, Blue Jays, Red Sox, and probably the Angels once they get things figured out?

 

The danger here is being in no mans land, just good enough to be competitive but not good enough to make the playoffs. If you are going to be bad, be bad. Accumulate talent in the draft and through international free agency and bank money to trade for established players. Free agency has never been real kind to the Sox, partially because the team has refused to work with the agent that represents a good percentage of baseballs elite players.

 

 

This sounds exactly like the position the Mariners find themselves in.

 

Two aces in Fernandez and Sale. Some pieces, like Iwakuma or Peavy, but nothing that would threaten the Rangers or A's.

 

They added Morse, Bay, Morales and Ibanez...and yet they're still miles from competing.

 

Smoak, Ackley, Montero and Saunders have been disappointments. Seager is about the only one who has held his own, and now Nick Franklin at 2B.

 

 

[caulfield12]

This game is a great example of box scores lying.

 

 

I'm sure this "blown save" and the one where he had the 5 run lead will be used to drive his trade value down by opposing GM's.

 

Not unlike Crain's last game against KC, even though it wasn't 100% his fault, he should have gotten out of the inning with lead at least.

[Balta1701]

I'm sure this "blown save" and the one where he had the 5 run lead will be used to drive his trade value down by opposing GM's.

 

Not unlike Crain's last game against KC, even though it wasn't 100% his fault, he should have gotten out of the inning with lead at least.

Man you really think opposing GM's are idiots.

[witesoxfan]

Do you think that spending part of his time as a DH would help with that? That's my hope with him, the Sox could use a DH after 2014 and hopefully 2015 is when we start seeing the first of the OF's in the minors (Trayce) arriving.

 

I don't oppose the idea, but I don't think it would have much of an effect either way. Once he were to get into his late 30s, then I think you would need to see more of it, but as is, it doesn't matter either way. He never really gets hurt either, and this year it's been really, really fluky stuff. I think he'd be a strong bet for the Sox either way.

 

I do think at some point he has to make the move from CF to LF because he doesn't have the arm to play RF.

[caulfield12]

Man you really think opposing GM's are idiots.

 

 

We'll see. They used to think that about KW at the time of Moneyball. Some still do.

 

I do think he would already have overturned a post-game buffet spread if he was in that position still. Or disappeared to Egypt, Argentina or the Appalachian Trail for a couple of weeks, but it was never his style to hide from reality for too long. It was always to confront problems head on like a bull. We'll see how Hahn handles the challenge. It's going to be lots of "no win" trades, except for Crain.

 

No matter what he does, he's going to be second-guessed, first-guessed and third-guessed.

[witesoxfan]

We'll see. They used to think that about KW at the time of Moneyball. Some still do.

 

I do think he would already have overturned a post-game buffet spread if he was in that position still. Or disappeared to Egypt, Argentina or the Appalachian Trail for a couple of weeks, but it was never his style to hide from reality for too long. It was always to confront problems head on like a bull. We'll see how Hahn handles the challenge. It's going to be lots of "no win" trades, except for Crain.

 

No matter what he does, he's going to be second-guessed, first-guessed and third-guessed.

 

Pretty sure he was aware of this going into the job

[kitekrazy]

Man you really think opposing GM's are idiots.

 

That's what we a hoping for at the trade deadline.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Man you really think opposing GM's are idiots.

They're going to haggle whenever things get serious, but both sides know the general level of value & they're not going to get so far out of hand as to create a bad relationship. I highly doubt any contender wants to sour things with a FO that looks like it will spend at least part of the next 2 seasons acting as a seller.

[caulfield12]

One thing's for sure, please don't trade for any more Blue Jays minor league pitchers at the AA/AAA level.

[Eminor3rd]

They're going to haggle whenever things get serious, but both sides know the general level of value & they're not going to get so far out of hand as to create a bad relationship. I highly doubt any contender wants to sour things with a FO that looks like it will spend at least part of the next 2 seasons acting as a seller.

 

What like "Castellanos for Reed" out of hand? I'm starting to think that 'The Ultimate Champion' actually a small team of posters acting independently.

[witesoxfan]

One thing's for sure, please don't trade for any more Blue Jays minor league pitchers at the AA/AAA level.

 

Really? Because of Nestor Molina? One guy busts or starts pitching poorly, and suddenly you shouldn't trade for anyone from there ever again?

 

Because Myles Jaye and Daniel Webb have sure pitched well up to this point.

[Chicago White Sox]

Really? Because of Nestor Molina? One guy busts or starts pitching poorly, and suddenly you shouldn't trade for anyone from there ever again?

 

Because Myles Jaye and Daniel Webb have sure pitched well up to this point.

I was going to post this, but you know he'll say they were in A ball and that you're forgetting Zach Stewart.

[The Ultimate Champion]

What like "Castellanos for Reed" out of hand? I'm starting to think that 'The Ultimate Champion' actually a small team of posters acting independently.

Can you read?

[caulfield12]

I was going to post this, but you know he'll say they were in A ball and that you're forgetting Zach Stewart.

 

 

Thanks.

[witesoxfan]

The Jackson/Teahen/Stewart/Frasor whatever deal had much more to do with getting out of Teahen's contract than anything else. The fact that Stewart was a live, decent arm was an added bonus.

[Paulstar]

Granderson just screams bad idea, I think. I really think playing at Yankee Stadium has created bad habits for Granderson, plus I think with all the hand injuries this year, it's not out of the realm of possibility that it would take at least a whole year of playing everyday again for him to find his swing again.

 

It could turn out to be a solid move, but with the way the Dunn signing turned out, I think it would be wise to avoid giving out any big money to guys with strikeout issues who have habits of being feast or famine.

 

Speaking of Dunn, if he keeps up this hot streak and gets his average above .200 with his power numbers, I think he could be traded without eating too much salary. The Orioles definitely need a DH, and I could see them being interested as Dunn batting .200 with his power numbers would be an improvement of the platoon they have going on right now. Also, Jake Arrieta seems like the perfect "Coop Can Fix Him" type of guy if the O's would be willing to trade him for a year and a half of Dunn.