If we do go on a fire sale, would you consider trading Chris Sale

[thxfrthmmrs]

This will not be a popular topic for most people, as Sale is the closest to being untouchable on this team. But I always like to go against the popular ideas. If we do fall out of contention by the trade deadline, would you consider offers for Sale? Please elaborate rather than shooting the idea down.

 

Here's why I would consider

 

- Durability. The tall, lanky frame, along with his delivery has always been a concern for injury. I am not confident that he will be healthy and effective two years down the road. He is one of the top 5 starters in AL currently. I expect him to be so for the next year or two. But if we go into rebuilding mode, we won't be competing for a few years. Sale may not be the same pitcher when we are ready to compete again.

 

- Trade value. He will probably be at his peak value at the trade deadline, 24 year old ace recently signed for a long term team friendly contract, and having another hell of a season. He is still relatively healthy. We will be able to net a haul for Sale that will fill several different areas of need and continue to rebuild our farm.

 

- Possibility of trading for an impact, middle of the order bat. The only offers I would consider are ones include a potential middle of the order bat who's close to major league ready. We have had success developing pitchers in recent years, but we struck out more than Adam Dunn did when it comes to hitting prospects. If we can net a middle of the order bat, with a number 2/3 starter prospect, along with a position player with potential to be a everyday regular, I think it will be best for the team long term.

 

- Update: we just lost a frustrating one to the Royals!

Reasons to go against it

 

- While long term health is a serious concern, in the event that he actually stays healthy for the next 5-10 years, he will lock up the number 1 starter spot for this team. This is the bet we are taking.

 

- Sale is already proven, prospects are always a risk.

 

- We might be missing a true ace once we are ready to compete again.

 

- Not a popular move for the faithfuls. If attendance is bad right now, it will turn for the worse if we trade Sale. It will be a shot to the fan's face to trade your most exciting player on the team who is only 24 right now, who is also locked up for the next 6-7 years.

 

Conclusion

 

I absolutely love Sale on this team, it will be hard for anyone to let him go. But if I am a betting man, I wouldn't bet on him staying healthy in a few years. He will be at his highest value this summer. Whether we trade him or not, it's a risk we are taking. If we have the potential to address the biggest need of this organization, and rebuild our farm to make a run once the Tigers' time runs out, it's a risk I can take.

Edited June 23, 2013 by thxfrthmmrs

[TaylorStSox]

Yes.

[Jake]

No. Our goal is to be good as soon as possible and as long as possible. Almost any reasonable offer for Sale would undermine both of these goals.

[caulfield12]

NO. (Unless we want to rename ourselves the Florida White Marlins and merge with Loria's team in South Florida).

Edited June 23, 2013 by caulfield12

[elrockinMT]

we don't need a fire sale all we need is to tweak

[thxfrthmmrs]

No. Our goal is to be good as soon as possible and as long as possible. Almost any reasonable offer for Sale would undermine both of these goals.

 

Agree with the first part, but I don't think Sale will help us with the second condition. He has already had two minor throwing shoulder/elbow hiccups the past two years. And I quote the unpopular Keith Law "with the way he throws, his shoulder is on buying time." I have a hard time time seeing him healthy/effective in 3 years.

 

To go along with that, if we get a middle of the order bat for him, it will actually let us be good for as long as possible. Hitters are more reliable to stay healthy than pitchers, especially Sale.

Edited June 23, 2013 by thxfrthmmrs

[Balta1701]

If Mike Trout is available yes. If not, no.

[BigEdWalsh]

we don't need a fire sale all we need is to tweak

If it's tweaking they need, they need a LOT of it.

 

I voted I would consider it, but it would have to be a really sweet deal.

Edited June 23, 2013 by BigEdWalsh

[Kyyle23]

we don't need a fire sale all we need is to tweak

 

You are probably going to be really pissed off after July 31st

[The Ultimate Champion]

No.

[thxfrthmmrs]

If Mike Trout is available yes. If not, no.

 

He won't be. But if the Cardinals come calling for someone to fill in for Jaime Garcia, and is willing to offer Taveras, Kolten Wong and two pitching prospects for Sale and maybe Alexei, I would have a hard time saying no. This would be a similar deal to the Rays/Royals trade this off season.

Edited June 23, 2013 by thxfrthmmrs

[2nd_city_saint787]

If they can pull of something ridiculous like the trade someone suggested in another thread with the Cardinals then I'd have to think about it. Getting Tavarez CF, Adams 1B/DH, and Wong 2B (Beckham moving to 3B or SS) can potentially turn around this offense and still leave you with Peavy-Danks-Q-Santiago-Johnson/Axe/FA pickup.

 

Nothing short of 2 young, cost controlled, ready, impact bats...and then some.

Edited June 23, 2013 by 2nd_city_saint787

[max power]

You consider everything, but overwhelming odds are, chris stays here.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Sale is already as good than what the best prospect in baseball could hope to be, I'm sure.

[caulfield12]

He won't be. But if the Cardinals come calling for someone to fill in for Jaime Garcia, and is willing to offer Taveras, Kolten Wong and two pitching prospects for Sale and maybe Alexei, I would have a hard time saying no. This would be a similar deal to the Rays/Royals trade this off season.

 

 

Except the Rays only gave up Shields for 2 seasons.

 

It's more like Edwin Jackson/Hudson-Holmberg (the Shields deal).

 

 

Jackson has always been talented, but he's never been a pitcher you built your entire organization and future around, either.

 

 

[caulfield12]

If they can pull of something ridiculous like the trade someone suggested in another thread with the Cardinals then I'd have to think about it. Getting Tavarez CF, Adams 1B/DH, and Wong 2B (Beckham moving to 3B or SS) can potentially turn around this offense and still leave you with Peavy-Danks-Q-Santiago-Johnson/Axe/FA pickup.

 

Nothing short of 2 young, cost controlled, ready, impact bats...and then some.

 

 

Except that goes against EVERYTHING the Cardinals as an organization believe in.

 

They're not under pressure to win another World Series like, say, the Cubs. St. Louis is definitely not in a position of desperation.

[Dick Allen]

If you are totally rebuilding and won't be in contention for several years, Sale would have to be shopped. Pitching 3,4, or 5 or more years in games that are meaningless doesn't serve any purpose.

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

If you are totally rebuilding and won't be in contention for several years, Sale would have to be shopped. Pitching 3,4, or 5 or more years in games that are meaningless doesn't serve any purpose.

 

I don't see us competing with the Tigers or with other wild card contenders with just a few minor tweaks. Our biggest need is a middle of the order bat. PK is good as done, Dunn is too unreliable, Rios cannot be a number 3 hitter for a playoff team. Hawkins has a chance to be one, but he's too far away and is far from being a share thing. Taking a quick look at the FA list for next season, Unless we sign Cano, we will still need players to build our offense around.

[Balta1701]

I don't see us competing with the Tigers or with other wild card contenders with just a few minor tweaks. Our biggest need is a middle of the order bat. PK is good as done, Dunn is too unreliable, Rios cannot be a number 3 hitter for a playoff team. Hawkins has a chance to be one, but he's too far away and is far from being a share thing. Taking a quick look at the FA list for next season, Unless we sign Cano, we will still need players to build our offense around.

Even if Peavy isn't traded....we'll have $30 million or so to spend this offseason just to get back to the same salary we have this year. We have room to make a major signing if that's what we want to do.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Except that goes against EVERYTHING the Cardinals as an organization believe in.

 

They're not under pressure to win another World Series like, say, the Cubs. St. Louis is definitely not in a position of desperation.

 

I can agree with that and it's why I included the word "something" in my post. Not sure of any other team who can offer "something like that sans maybe the Rangers with Olt and Profar+ which I'd have to consider.

 

[kitekrazy]

This will not be a popular topic for most people, as Sale is the closest to being untouchable on this team. But I always like to go against the popular ideas. If we do fall out of contention by the trade deadline, would you consider offers for Sale? Please elaborate rather than shooting the idea down.

 

Here's why I would consider

 

- Durability. The tall, lanky frame, along with his delivery has always been a concern for injury. I am not confident that he will be healthy and effective two years down the road.

 

You're hoping GMs would belive or see the same thing.

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

I just want to see where everyone stands on this idea. Apparently most folks are very confident he will be health/effective when we are good again, or we will be good again as soon as next year.

 

Where I am coming from is I see Sale as a risk. I love to watch him pitch, but he's always been an injury concern, and signs still show the past two years.

 

In terms of risk management, we can get creative and transfer the risk to someone who is will to overpay and take on the risk. It might pay off for the other team if he stays healthy, but I rather someone takes on the risk than we do as it stands now. This idea won't even be considered if we are in contention every year, because no one trades their young ace if you are competing. But if we are close to the rebuilding mode, we might as well start from scratch and transfer the risk to someone else and fill one of our biggest needs in the process.

 

If you aren't the Yankees or Red Sox, it takes some forms of creativity to stay in contention for the long term. I see a move like this as one of those moves. If Hahn does pull of this move, and most of the returns do pan out, and Sale is no longer the same pitcher a few years down the road, this will be seen as an incredible brilliant move.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Absolutely not.

[Soxfest]

If you trade Sale then what is the point? He is young and signed he is a building block not a trading block.

[Balta1701]

I just want to see where everyone stands on this idea. Apparently most folks are very confident he will be health/effective when we are good again, or we will be good again as soon as next year.

 

Where I am coming from is I see Sale as a risk. I love to watch him pitch, but he's always been an injury concern, and signs still show the past two years.

 

In terms of risk management, we can get creative and transfer the risk to someone who is will to overpay and take on the risk. It might pay off for the other team if he stays healthy, but I rather someone takes on the risk than we do as it stands now. This idea won't even be considered if we are in contention every year, because no one trades their young ace if you are competing. But if we are close to the rebuilding mode, we might as well start from scratch and transfer the risk to someone else and fill one of our biggest needs in the process.

 

If you aren't the Yankees or Red Sox, it takes some forms of creativity to stay in contention for the long term. I see a move like this as one of those moves. If Hahn does pull of this move, and most of the returns do pan out, and Sale is no longer the same pitcher a few years down the road, this will be seen as an incredible brilliant move.

See, I disagree. with the principle here. I think that by far teh easiest way to stay in contention for the long term is to have an ace pitcher. If you can get that, then you've gotten the hardest part done. That reshapes your entire team, especially if he's underpaid relative to his performance.