6/24 Games

[Jake]

Which Johnson are we talking about here?

[DirtySox]

Which Johnson are we talking about here?

 

I'm talking Erik. I like Micah, but he's nowhere near the prospect yet. Needs to be producing in an age appropriate league first.

[thxfrthmmrs]

So much for me being the only extremist on the Hawkins demotion front two week ago.

 

What do naysayers have to say now? Having him keep aimlessly swing out there is going to break him down even further. Something have to be done at this point.

[Balta1701]

I'm ready to give up on Mitchell at this point, but it's going to take at least until 2015 before being willing to throw in the towel on Hawkins.

Really, you'll wait until a guy is 21 to throw in the towel on him? How patient of you.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

He (Thompson) has to be...nobody else has more raw (overall) potential in the system, other than Hawkins.

 

Some might argue Barnum, Tim Anderson or Micah, but it's one of those five, as far as position players go.

 

No one would argue that.

 

And of course Thompson is most likely to reach the majors - he's already producing a level or two ahead of the others at a similar age.

[Chicago White Sox]

No one would argue that.

 

And of course Thompson is most likely to reach the majors - he's already producing a level or two ahead of the others at a similar age.

It still bothers me that Thompson has never been considered a top 100 prospect. While his numbers have never been eye-popping, as you said he's a level or two above players his age and has shown steady improvement each year. Plus he is a legitimate CF, which is a huge positive. I'm way more confident of him becoming a 2015 regular than any other position player in our system, including Phegley & Sanchez.

[Balta1701]

It still bothers me that Thompson has never been considered a top 100 prospect. While his numbers have never been eye-popping, as you said he's a level or two above players his age and has shown steady improvement each year. Plus he is a legitimate CF, which is a huge positive. I'm way more confident of him becoming a 2015 regular than any other position player in our system, including Phegley & Sanchez.

This ought to tell you something about the top-100 prospect lists and what actually goes into them.

[caulfield12]

Really, you'll wait until a guy is 21 to throw in the towel on him? How patient of you.

 

 

If he's striking out at a 55-60% clip TWO YEARS FROM NOW, that might be a pretty strong indication he's not ever going to figure things out.

 

When's the last Sox position prospect who hit below .200 for 3 consecutive seasons and then suddenly turned things around?

 

Now if he makes gradual progress, like Thompson, there will hope. But this idea of him being a special talent who could make it to the majors as quickly as someone like Mike Trout (2000 Midwest League) is rapidly disappearing.

 

That should be a pretty strong indication (if you look at Trout's history) that they pushed him too hard. The fact that Mike Trout was at least playing in the far inferior Midwest League through the All-Star Break of his 2nd season...before he was promoted based on merit.

 

When's the last time a non-pitching prospect from a high school background was pushed into High A ball the year he was drafted as well as to begin the following season? Can you name one?

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

If he's striking out at a 55-60% clip TWO YEARS FROM NOW, that might be a pretty strong indication he's not ever going to figure things out.

 

When's the last Sox position prospect who hit below .200 for 3 consecutive seasons and then suddenly turned things around?

 

Now if he makes gradual progress, like Thompson, there will hope. But this idea of him being a special talent who could make it to the majors as quickly as someone like Mike Trout (2000 Midwest League) is rapidly disappearing.

 

That should be a pretty strong indication (if you look at Trout's history) that they pushed him too hard. The fact that Mike Trout was at least playing in the far inferior Midwest League through the All-Star Break of his 2nd season...before he was promoted based on merit.

 

When's the last time a non-pitching prospect from a high school background was pushed into High A ball the year he was drafted as well as to begin the following season? Can you name one?

 

Why are you making these completely arbitrary comparisons? Who cares about Mike Trout. No one except you is comparing him to him. There was never the idea that he was going to make the majors as quickly as him. Stop making things up.

[caulfield12]

Why are you making these completely arbitrary comparisons? Who cares about Mike Trout. No one except you is comparing him to him. There was never the idea that he was going to make the majors as quickly as him. Stop making things up.

 

No, I'm using that as an example.

 

You're missing the point.

 

Not even the Los Angeles Angels pushed the god-like Mike Trout into High A the season he was drafted, and then to start the subsequent season thereafter.

 

Can you name a team that has done that with a position player drafted out of high school in recent memory?

 

It's almost unprecedented. Depending on how his career goes, it's going to be a move that is dissected over and over again.

Edited June 25, 2013 by caulfield12

[ChiSox_Sonix]

No, I'm using that as an example.

 

You're missing the point.

 

Not even the Los Angeles Angels pushed the god-like Mike Trout into High A the season he was drafted, and then to start the subsequent season thereafter.

 

Can you name a team that has done that with a position player drafted out of high school in recent memory?

 

It's almost unprecedented. Depending on how his career goes, it's going to be a move that is dissected over and over again.

 

Honestly, who cares? And again, Mike Trout has nothing to do with Courtney Hawkins. Hawkins was promoted after having a great debut in Kanny, on a team that wasn't going to the playoffs, to W-S, a team that was going to the playoffs. They did not push him. They used it as a way to get him more at bats. The difference in pitching from A to High-A is negligible. And his performance in those 10 games or so suggested that he was not overmatched. Having start the year in Kanny would have been fine, just as starting in W-S was also fine. Every player is different, you do what you think you should with everyone individually. What the Angels did with the "god-like" Mike Trout doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what any other team did with .

[caulfield12]

Honestly, who cares? And again, Mike Trout has nothing to do with Courtney Hawkins. Hawkins was promoted after having a great debut in Kanny, on a team that wasn't going to the playoffs, to W-S, a team that was going to the playoffs. They did not push him. They used it as a way to get him more at bats. The difference in pitching from A to High-A is negligible. And his performance in those 10 games or so suggested that he was not overmatched. Having start the year in Kanny would have been fine, just as starting in W-S was also fine. Every player is different, you do what you think you should with everyone individually. What the Angels did with the "god-like" Mike Trout doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what any other team did with .

 

 

Could not disagree more, except for the jump between High A and AA.

 

That's the biggest, this, the second.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2013 by caulfield12

[fathom]

It still bothers me that Thompson has never been considered a top 100 prospect. While his numbers have never been eye-popping, as you said he's a level or two above players his age and has shown steady improvement each year. Plus he is a legitimate CF, which is a huge positive. I'm way more confident of him becoming a 2015 regular than any other position player in our system, including Phegley & Sanchez.

 

Speaking of rankings, did any Sox players make the baseball prospectus top 50 today?

[thxfrthmmrs]

Could not disagree more, except for the jump between High A and AA.

 

That's the biggest, this, the second.

 

 

WOW. this guy. This is the same guy that thinks demotion would not help Hawkins, two weeks ago, and the talent level between low A and high A is pretty much similar. This is also the guy who suggest to promote Hawkins to Double A 2 weeks ago.

 

Caufield, as a poster, how about you stick to what you really believe in, stop flip flopping positions every week. And for the love of God, spare us from your irrelevant player comparisons.

[witesoxfan]

Could not disagree more, except for the jump between High A and AA.

 

That's the biggest, this, the second.

 

I would say that it's by far the smallest jump. A+ to AA is the biggest, followed by AA to AAA (young, hard throwers to slower, breaking stuff), and then rookie to A ball. Really, other than rookie to rookie, which you really don't see, I think A- to A+ really is the smallest.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I would say that it's by far the smallest jump. A+ to AA is the biggest, followed by AA to AAA (young, hard throwers to slower, breaking stuff), and then rookie to A ball. Really, other than rookie to rookie, which you really don't see, I think A- to A+ really is the smallest.

 

That's exactly the way I see it as well.

[QuickJones81]

Anderson seems to be holding his own.

 

Hawkins, not so much.

 

Let's not forget that Hawkins came out of the gates like a stud last year too.

[Chicago White Sox]

This ought to tell you something about the top-100 prospect lists and what actually goes into them.

I have no doubt if he was in the Cubs' organization he would have cracked some lists, at least Baseball America's.

[caulfield12]

Let's not forget that Hawkins came out of the gates like a stud last year too.

 

 

His overall OPS was 800, but he only struck out 56 times in 219 at-bats.

 

This year, it's 83 in only 156, 53% of his total.

 

 

[caulfield12]

I would say that it's by far the smallest jump. A+ to AA is the biggest, followed by AA to AAA (young, hard throwers to slower, breaking stuff), and then rookie to A ball. Really, other than rookie to rookie, which you really don't see, I think A- to A+ really is the smallest.

 

 

80-85% of the best pitching prospects in baseball are usually found in AA.

 

Yes, the AAA/AAAA pitchers have better command, major league experience many of them, but not the pure stuff a lot of the AA pitchers throw.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Never!!!!

 

 

And yet STILL, nobody answered the question.

 

What other position prospect, drafted in let's say the last decade out of high school, was pushed to High A that same year he was drafted and then started out the following season in High A???

 

Why can nobody answer that question, if it happens so frequently?

[caulfield12]

WOW. this guy. This is the same guy that thinks demotion would not help Hawkins, two weeks ago, and the talent level between low A and high A is pretty much similar. This is also the guy who suggest to promote Hawkins to Double A 2 weeks ago.

 

Caufield, as a poster, how about you stick to what you really believe in, stop flip flopping positions every week. And for the love of God, spare us from your irrelevant player comparisons.

 

 

The same reason all those calling for Josh Phegley will never get their wish.

 

It's called THINGS CHANGE SOMETIMES IN BASEBALL AND YOU HAVE TO ADAPT.

 

The Courtney Hawkins hitting .229 and with all the confidence in the world and looking like he'd put the worst behind him and the CURRENT Courtney Hawkins who is 3/47 or whatever with almost 30 K's are not the same ballplayer.

 

He's just totally lost now.

 

Based on his results in 2012, and the slow start, he deserved one prolonged slump to get out of it.

 

Two, with his K ratio, something HAS to be done or the organization just has no clue how to help position players when they struggle.

 

 

If people didn't change their viewpoints, then Balta would still be touting Morel as the 3B of the future, wouldn't he?

 

At some point, you have to draw a different conclusion.

Edited June 25, 2013 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

80-85% of the best pitching prospects in baseball are usually found in AA.

 

Yes, the AAA/AAAA pitchers have better command, major league experience many of them, but not the pure stuff a lot of the AA pitchers throw.

 

I'm aware. That's why I said the biggest jump is from A+ to AA. I'm saying the jump from A- to A+ is virtually negligible.

[oldsox]

If he's striking out at a 55-60% clip TWO YEARS FROM NOW, that might be a pretty strong indication he's not ever going to figure things out.

 

When's the last Sox position prospect who hit below .200 for 3 consecutive seasons and then suddenly turned things around?

 

Now if he makes gradual progress, like Thompson, there will hope. But this idea of him being a special talent who could make it to the majors as quickly as someone like Mike Trout (2000 Midwest League) is rapidly disappearing.

 

That should be a pretty strong indication (if you look at Trout's history) that they pushed him too hard. The fact that Mike Trout was at least playing in the far inferior Midwest League through the All-Star Break of his 2nd season...before he was promoted based on merit.

 

When's the last time a non-pitching prospect from a high school background was pushed into High A ball the year he was drafted as well as to begin the following season? Can you name one?

Kershaw?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

And yet STILL, nobody answered the question.

 

What other position prospect, drafted in let's say the last decade out of high school, was pushed to High A that same year he was drafted and then started out the following season in High A???

 

Why can nobody answer that question, if it happens so frequently?

 

Stop making things up. Who has said that?

 

And no one has answered because it's a totally irrelevant question.