NBA Thread 2013-2014

[Brian]

I know he's not the savior but wouldn't have minded seeing Jimmer get in the first half to see how he hangs.

 

Wouldn't have hurt the way they were going.

[Kyyle23]

It's not so much that I'm mad at him that we need to scheme/coach in such a way that it doesn't keep happening. It seems ridiculous that Boozer can get a ton of minutes in quarters 1-3 and cannot play in the fourth quarter, the quarter in which we constantly lose games due to our inability to score.

 

I swear sometimes it seems like you cover your eyes when Boozer plays and only see the points he scores.

[bmags]

Really not pleased with Thibs overuse yesterday. Clear he ran DJ into the ground and he had no legs in last 2 minutes when we needed him most.

 

But I have to say, John Wall really looks like a bball player out there. Much improved. Just shows how hard the jump is to NBA point guard compared to other positions.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I'd rather keep watching this group than watch Melo bring this team down to the ground.

Get outta here with that.

 

I'm shocked at how many people here act surprised at the fact that the Bulls struggle to score in key moments of a playoff game. If there's one thing Melo does well, it's scoring. I firmly believe Thibs can hide Melo's defensive weakness where his offensive prowess becomes a plus.

 

Melo, please come to Chicago

[Chisoxfn]

That is Thibodeau's fault. Kirk Hinrich had no business getting all those minutes late. Keeping Dunleavy out while leaving Kirk out there is unforgivable. More generally, Boozer can't play 0 minutes in the fourth quarter every game. If nothing else, you have to get a breather for the other bigs.

Augustin was dead and f***ing awful at the end too. Thibs lack of using other guys put us in a real bad spot in the final few minutes. Bad game and I am still grumpy from it. That said, while everyone was f***ing predicting ECF, all I kept doing was commenting on the bad match up and threats Washington posed. Beal is playing fantastic and I'll tip my cap. We all know this team can't really create on offense but there was no excuse to not have more MDJ in the game.

[Chisoxfn]

This is what happens when you leave your last 20 minutes to Kirk f***ing Hinrich

Hinrich freaking joked. Cookie layup and then the free throws. But I also won't ignore the fact that anyone could see that Augustin was a bum down the stretch too. He completely died cause he didn't get the appropriate rest and then had multiple bad possessions with bad shots / turnovers / etc. Not Augustin's fault cause he wasn't properly rested .

[Chisoxfn]

Makes you wonder If Thibs is right man to lead Bulls to a title.

This team has pure s*** that can score. It is incredible they ended up where they are. Get this man f***ing Melo and then we have a right to complain. What he has done is incredible. I might be complaining about certain things during the game, but this team is in the playoffs because of him. Now someone might say...we'd be better off with a lottery pick, blah blah blah, but fact of the matter is Thibbs is one hell of a coach. He still has to learn from some things though.

[Rowand44]

I mean, we would be better off with a lottery pick, I'm not sure there's an argument to the contrary. But I'm not blaming that on Thibs, it's not in his nature to tank and everyone knew that.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Rowand44

[bmags]

I mean, we would be better off with a lottery pick, I'm not sure there's an argument to the contrary. But I'm not blaming that on Thibs, it's not in his nature to tank and everyone knew that.

 

Frankly if we tanked that meant the talent on this roster was not good and 1 extra player wouldn't help. Now when we look at roster we're like "man one more player and we're stacked!"

[chw42]

Apparently Turner and Stephenson got into a fight before game 1 of their series.

 

The Pacers FO sure found a way to make that team way more dysfunctional.

[RockRaines]

Apparently Turner and Stephenson got into a fight before game 1 of their series.

 

The Pacers FO sure found a way to make that team way more dysfunctional.

Stephenson has now fought about every member of that team.

[Rowand44]

Frankly if we tanked that meant the talent on this roster was not good and 1 extra player wouldn't help. Now when we look at roster we're like "man one more player and we're stacked!"

One player in the NBA can make a hell of a difference. Add that to A potentially healthy Derrick and you're really onto something. Even if we assume Derrick is permanently broken, I'll take rebuilding with a top pick over bringing in someone like Melo at that point cause we are more than one player away if Rose isn't Rose. Like I said, not mad at Thibs about this cause realistically we were never going to tank but we really could have set the franchise up nicely if we did it correctly.

 

EDIT: this is worded poorly. Basically my point is if you add a top pick to a healthy rose then you're really in business and if Rose is a goner then you still have the top pick and can still add to a core that had no realistic chance of winning a championship this year after Derrick died.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Rowand44

[Y2Jimmy0]

Get outta here with that.

 

I'm shocked at how many people here act surprised at the fact that the Bulls struggle to score in key moments of a playoff game. If there's one thing Melo does well, it's scoring. I firmly believe Thibs can hide Melo's defensive weakness where his offensive prowess becomes a plus.

 

Melo, please come to Chicago

 

 

Thibs had the #1 defense in the NBA with Carlos Boozer and Mike Dunleavy starting. I think Melo would be just fine.

[Quin]

Thibs had the #1 defense in the NBA with Carlos Boozer and Mike Dunleavy starting. I think Melo would be just fine.

 

With the cap increasing, if Melo tells NY he'd take a small paycut to be with the Bulls, or the Bulls can clear the space to sign him outright, the Knicks almost have to listen to Booz + Picks.

 

And if you have Rose-Butler-Melo-Taj-Noah-Mirotic as your Top 6, you're in a damn good place, especially in the East. And that's with current Melo. He buys into Thibs' system?

 

Lawdy we'd have a show to behold.

[Balta1701]

With the cap increasing, if Melo tells NY he'd take a small paycut to be with the Bulls, or the Bulls can clear the space to sign him outright, the Knicks almost have to listen to Booz + Picks.

 

And if you have Rose-Butler-Melo-Taj-Noah-Mirotic as your Top 6, you're in a damn good place, especially in the East. And that's with current Melo. He buys into Thibs' system?

 

Lawdy we'd have a show to behold.

Something I don't know for sure...if the Bulls say have $15 million to play with under the cap after cutting Boozer, could they do a Gibson for Anthony trade while giving Anthony the near-max of $15 million + Gibson's salary?

 

Only asking because clearly Gibson would be a more valuable player than Boozer so I could see NY actually taking him. The alternative could be dumping Gibson on another team for a 2nd round pick if they have cap space, that would make it work without question if the Bulls were in the $15 million range.

[ZoomSlowik]

With the cap increasing, if Melo tells NY he'd take a small paycut to be with the Bulls, or the Bulls can clear the space to sign him outright, the Knicks almost have to listen to Booz + Picks.

 

And if you have Rose-Butler-Melo-Taj-Noah-Mirotic as your Top 6, you're in a damn good place, especially in the East. And that's with current Melo. He buys into Thibs' system?

 

Lawdy we'd have a show to behold.

 

He's going to have to take more than a "small" paycut to sign with the Bulls outright. Even with Boozer gone and Taj dumped with no salary coming back (not necessarily easy), they'd only be able to give him around $18 million as a starting salary. He can start around $23 million for the Knicks. Those numbers will vary slightly depending on where the cap actually sits and the amounts of the cap-holds and such, but the point is it won't be a small cut. The odds of that seem incredibly small to me, and even if it somehow does happen, the depth will suffer significantly the first year.

 

Now the increased luxury tax gives them quite a bit of flexibility in a sign and trade, so that's there best bet. That would obviously require New York cooperating though.

 

Obviously you have to do it if you can, but I'm not holding my breath. Things have to fall perfectly for the Bulls, which has only happened once in my time following the Bulls (the 1.3% miracle).

[Balta1701]

He's going to have to take more than a "small" paycut to sign with the Bulls outright. Even with Boozer gone and Taj dumped with no salary coming back (not necessarily easy), they'd only be able to give him around $18 million as a starting salary. He can start around $23 million for the Knicks. Those numbers will vary slightly depending on where the cap actually sits and the amounts of the cap-holds and such, but the point is it won't be a small cut. The odds of that seem incredibly small to me, and even if it somehow does happen, the depth will suffer significantly the first year.

 

Now the increased luxury tax gives them quite a bit of flexibility in a sign and trade, so that's there best bet. That would obviously require New York cooperating though.

 

Obviously you have to do it if you can, but I'm not holding my breath. Things have to fall perfectly for the Bulls, which has only happened once in my time following the Bulls (the 1.3% miracle).

How do you get to $18 million? using the Hoopshype numbers and zeroing out Boozer, I've got the Bulls at $46.6. Add in what, less than $3 million for 2 first round picks outside the lottery and then farther back, and the Bulls are still under $49. If the cap is in the range fo $65 mil, that's $16 million right there?

[ZoomSlowik]

Something I don't know for sure...if the Bulls say have $15 million to play with under the cap after cutting Boozer, could they do a Gibson for Anthony trade while giving Anthony the near-max of $15 million + Gibson's salary?

 

Only asking because clearly Gibson would be a more valuable player than Boozer so I could see NY actually taking him. The alternative could be dumping Gibson on another team for a 2nd round pick if they have cap space, that would make it work without question if the Bulls were in the $15 million range.

 

The math won't really work out that cleanly. They'd be at $48 million for 6 players without Boozer. Yes, that's about $15 million, but you have to subtract cap holds for the remaining roster spots and their two draft picks. They would probably have $10-12 million in space. If you send them Taj and Dunleavy you can get close, but he can still take more from New York.

[ZoomSlowik]

How do you get to $18 million? using the Hoopshype numbers and zeroing out Boozer, I've got the Bulls at $46.6. Add in what, less than $3 million for 2 first round picks outside the lottery and then farther back, and the Bulls are still under $49. If the cap is in the range fo $65 mil, that's $16 million right there?

 

First off, they're estimating about $63 million for the salary cap.

 

Second, there are cap holds for the remaining roster spots. They'll have cap holds for the remaining spots they currently don't have on their roster. I believe the cap hold is around 400k and you need 13 players, so it would be another $3 million or so deducted from the cap total.

 

Third, two first rounders will be at least $3 million. I'm too lazy to look at the exact numbers, but Snell made $1.4 million this year and their picks are higher.

 

Edit- Also, Sham Sports is usually better than Hoops Hype. They have nearly $48 mil for the 6 non-Boozer players they'd have under contract.

Edited April 23, 2014 by ZoomSlowik

[Balta1701]

The math won't really work out that cleanly. They'd be at $48 million for 6 players without Boozer. Yes, that's about $15 million, but you have to subtract cap holds for the remaining roster spots and their two draft picks. They would probably have $10-12 million in space. If you send them Taj and Dunleavy you can get close, but he can still take more from New York.

Wait, I've never seen "cap holds" for remaining roster spots in the NBA? I've seen it for the draft picks, but that's only about $2.5 million give or take. And the top 6 add up to $46.6 in the Hoopshype numbers, is there a performance bonus they're not counting?

[ZoomSlowik]

Wait, I've never seen "cap holds" for remaining roster spots in the NBA? I've seen it for the draft picks, but that's only about $2.5 million give or take. And the top 6 add up to $46.6 in the Hoopshype numbers, is there a performance bonus they're not counting?

 

Sham actually has a little under $46 total for Rose, Noah. Gibson, Dunleavy, Butler and Snell. I don't know why they're different, but I usually trust Sham. I just posted the draft picks in an edit, it will be more than $2.5 mil.

 

This explains what counts in the team salary.

 

If you look at the 3rd to last bullet point, you have holds at the rookie minimum up to 12 roster spots (I was wrong on the number). I'm too lazy to find the rookie minimum salary, but it's at least 400k. I think it's actually higher than that.

Edited April 23, 2014 by ZoomSlowik

[Balta1701]

Sham actually has a little under $46 total for Rose, Noah. Gibson, Dunleavy, Butler and Snell. I don't know why they're different, but I usually trust Sham. I just posted the draft picks in an edit, it will be more than $2.5 mil.

 

This explains what counts in the team salary.

 

If you look at the 3rd to last bullet point, you have holds at the rookie minimum up to 12 roster spots (I was wrong on the number). I'm too lazy to find the rookie minimum salary, but it's at least 400k. I think it's actually higher than that.

So doing that math puts the Bulls at ~ $50.5 in cap holds. If the cap is $65 and they dump Gibson's $8 million for nothing, that leaves them ~$22.5 available.

[ZoomSlowik]

So doing that math puts the Bulls at ~ $50.5 in cap holds. If the cap is $65 and they dump Gibson's $8 million for nothing, that leaves them ~$22.5 available.

 

First off, the cap is not going to be $65 million. It's projected to be $63.2 million. That already means you're short of Melo's "max". Here's another way to look at the math.

 

Rose+Noah is $31 million. That leaves you about $32 million for 10 more players.

 

Melo's first year max salary on the deal is $22.46 million. I'll round to $22.5 for easier math. In that hypothetical situation, you would have $9.5 million for another 9 roster spots.

 

Subtract Butler at roughly $2 million. You're now down to $7.5 million and you need 8 more players.

 

Snell is at $1.47 million, round it to $1.5 for easier math. $6 million for 7 more players.

 

Oh, Dunleavy is still on your payroll. He's making about $3.3 million. That takes you down to $2.7 million and you still need 6 more players.

 

Now you have those two first round picks. They're #16 and $19, which according to RealGM means $1.42 mil and $1.22 million. Now you're down to .06 million left under the cap and you still need 4 more players.

 

So for those last 4 roster spots, you have a cap hold at the rookie minimum. I just looked it up and that number is slightly over 500k for 2014-15. That means four roster spots=$2 million in cap holds.

 

 

To sum up all that stupid math, the Bulls would be about $2 million over the cap in order to pay Melo his max salary, and that already assumes that we can find someone to absorb Taj's $8 million salary in its entirety.

 

So to sum it up, the absolute best the Bulls can do is about $2 million per year less than the Knicks, and they can give him larger annual raises and a fifth year. That's also under ideal situations and doesn't account for other signings/holds I am forgetting. Not quite the $18 million I said before I looked up exact numbers, but still a decent paycut.

 

It's a lot easier if New York will do a sign and trade.

 

Edit- Tweaked the numbers slightly since I had the wrong pick for one of the first rounders and I looked up Melo's max first year salary.

Edited April 23, 2014 by ZoomSlowik

[Chisoxfn]

The hard part is moving Gibson truly hurts the team long term. We have very little bigs and can't bring Mirotic over. Sign and trade seems like best possible option but again, we might have to clear the cuboards to do it. The key really is if Melo will sign for 17-18M per year. In which case, Bulls might have flexibility to make something happen without decimating the team.

[ZoomSlowik]

The hard part is moving Gibson truly hurts the team long term. We have very little bigs and can't bring Mirotic over. Sign and trade seems like best possible option but again, we might have to clear the cuboards to do it. The key really is if Melo will sign for 17-18M per year. In which case, Bulls might have flexibility to make something happen without decimating the team.

 

The problem is that math above is already for a bare-bones roster. Look at the lack of depth up front and at PG in the math I did. A $5 million paycut for Melo wouldn't drastically change the math as that would still only leave about $3 million in cap space to fill multiple holes (and the two picks, but they'll be mid-round rookies). You still have to do it because a Rose/Melo/Noah core is something to work with, but the rest of the roster would be pretty weak.

 

If we're talking sign and trade, then yeah, MUCH more room to work with. Right now they're projected to be almost $14 million under the tax line. That doesn't factor in picks/cap holds, but they also have to send out a ton of salary to make the trade work, so it'll even out. It'll cost assets, but they'd also have room for both Melo and Mirotic. It'd cost them most of their picks most likely, but adding those two would be worth it.

Edited April 24, 2014 by ZoomSlowik