Rowand44 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 10:48 PM) Ask Wilt. Seriously though, it's the highest level, either you're good enough or you ain't. MJ is GOAT in my opinion because he refused to lose once he had the title within sight, sometimes on sheer will alone ve more talented teams. If LeBron had MJ's sheer will to leave everything on the floor, he'd be almost impossible to beat, he has everything to be on that level but he doesn't. I've seen both MJ and LeBron's career, it isn't the homer in me, MJ without question is the superior player, absolutely no doubt in my mind. That's why I laugh when J4L says it's 'a cloin flip' between them, or crap like MJ fans are 'worried' about LeBron. Trust me, I don't think LeBron is MJ, Jordan is the best ever, no question. I just don't get the finals record argument. A loss is a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 11:27 PM) Just to nitpick, 94-95 Magic were more talented IMO (no bigs on Chicago) and I think you can make the argument for the Suns (not great defensively though). I agree with your general premise though. Let's blame everything on the guy averaging 27.5 a game on the series while shooting 60% from the floor! Yeah, he's not MJ, but he can score 40 the last two games and they still lose. The Spurs have just been better. I'd actually agree on the 94-95 Magic but I don't agree on the Suns. Of course the Bulls lost to the Magic so the Jordan will to win thing doesn't exactly fly there (although Jordan clearly wasn't himself that season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 11:29 PM) Trust me, I don't think LeBron is MJ, Jordan is the best ever, no question. I just don't get the finals record argument. A loss is a loss. Agreed. Apparently Jordan didn't do a good enough job refusing to lose against the Pistons pre-1991. Penalizing LeBron for putting a garbage Cleveland team on his back and taking them to the finals is dumb. The one series in his career LeBron deserves a ton of blame for losing is against the Mavericks in the final. Otherwise he has played exceptionally well and just lost to better teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) My biggest beef with LeBron is that he's too damn passive. What exactly have the Spurs done to stop LeBron from having more games like did in GM 2? I just get the feeling he doesn't lay it all on the floor. Exert his will. You never got that feeling with MJ. Edited June 13, 2014 by MexSoxFan#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 11:34 PM) My biggest beef with LeBron is that he's too damn passive. What exactly have the Spurs done to stop LeBron from having more games like did in GM 2? I just get the feeling he doesn't lay it all on the floor. You never got that feeling with MJ. I guess LeBron not laying it all on the floor is the reason the Spurs are destroying the Heat's defense like they are playing a bunch of high school kids. It isn't game but LeBron could take more shots and it still wouldn't make any difference at all until the Heat figure out their D (and frankly I'm just not sure the Heat have the personnel to stop the Spurs this year since Ginobili is playing good basketball again and every single player on the Spurs who takes 3's has been burying them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 11:31 PM) I'd actually agree on the 94-95 Magic but I don't agree on the Suns. Of course the Bulls lost to the Magic so the Jordan will to win thing doesn't exactly fly there (although Jordan clearly wasn't himself that season). I don't necessarily agree either, but it kind of depends on your definition of "talent". Those Suns could put the ball in the net and were pretty deep. The Bulls were a better defensive team and had 3 of the 5 best players, but take a look at their roster outside of their top-4. Not very pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 LeBron needs more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 05:41 AM) LeBron needs more help. He will. Carmelo is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 11:40 PM) I guess LeBron not laying it all on the floor is the reason the Spurs are destroying the Heat's defense like they are playing a bunch of high school kids. It isn't game but LeBron could take more shots and it still wouldn't make any difference at all until the Heat figure out their D (and frankly I'm just not sure the Heat have the personnel to stop the Spurs this year since Ginobili is playing good basketball again and every single player on the Spurs who takes 3's has been burying them). IMO this is only partially true. If Lebron shows up for more than two quarters out of the last eight (basically Q1 in game 3 and Q3 last night), maybe the Spurs aren't up 20 and the Heat aren't being demoralized. I agree with your second point that the Spurs just have more talent and the talent is playing well, but I'm not buying that Lebron is having himself a great series and its the supporting cast that is causing them to lose. He's a part of the losing as well with his inconsistent, straight-up no-show at times play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 11:34 PM) My biggest beef with LeBron is that he's too damn passive. What exactly have the Spurs done to stop LeBron from having more games like did in GM 2? I just get the feeling he doesn't lay it all on the floor. Exert his will. You never got that feeling with MJ. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 11:33 PM) Agreed. Apparently Jordan didn't do a good enough job refusing to lose against the Pistons pre-1991. Penalizing LeBron for putting a garbage Cleveland team on his back and taking them to the finals is dumb. The one series in his career LeBron deserves a ton of blame for losing is against the Mavericks in the final. Otherwise he has played exceptionally well and just lost to better teams. It again comes down to expectations and comparisons to the GREATEST OF ALL TIME. This isn't people debating who's a deserving all-star or even MVP for a given year. It's the GOAT debate. Everything matters, but especially the biggest moments on the biggest stage. In that argument, his losing records in the Finals absolutely matter, ESPECIALLY when he's losing with THREE hall of famers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 09:13 AM) It again comes down to expectations and comparisons to the GREATEST OF ALL TIME. This isn't people debating who's a deserving all-star or even MVP for a given year. It's the GOAT debate. Everything matters, but especially the biggest moments on the biggest stage. In that argument, his losing records in the Finals absolutely matter, ESPECIALLY when he's losing with THREE hall of famers. So LeBron losing in the finals is worse than Jordan losing to the Pistons? Like I said, there's not even a debate between the two in my opinion but the finals record argument makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) So LeBron losing in the finals is worse than Jordan losing to the Pistons? Like I said, there's not even a debate between the two in my opinion but the finals record argument makes no sense. Yes. IMO it is. When you're comparing two supposed GOAT time players, what you do on the biggest stage matters more. I think for the most part people (myself included) give Lebron a pass with Cleveland. One loss isn't a huge deal. His loss to an inferior Mavericks team, in which he failed to show up in two or three games, was inexcusable. There's an asterisk attached to last years (for Lebron's legacy), and if he loses this year it's just another hit against him. You seem to think players showing up in big games should be equal to players showing up in regular season/opening round games. Why? If you're the best of the best, you need to show up and play your best against the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 07:04 PM) Where's J4L to remind us how easily the Heat were gonna roll the Spurs? Every offesnsive possession by the Heat looks forced and sloppy while the Spurs are getting clean looks. 1 game away from a potential dismantling of the Heat!!! NBA offseason could get really interesting with a Heat win!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 08:04 PM) Heat should ditch Wade for Melo. That could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 There is a way for the Bulls to land both Melo and Love. http://www.csnchicago.com/bulls/dream-scen...carmelo-anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) There is a way for the Bulls to land both Melo and Love. http://www.csnchicago.com/bulls/dream-scen...carmelo-anthony Convince Carmelo to come in at $11.5 mill. I have another way you can get LeBron, Melo, Derrick Rose, Michael Jordan, and the corpse of Wilt Chamberlain - convince them all to play for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 Sterling is looking for dirt on NBA owners. http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_...n-firms-dig-nba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 That plan would require the Bulls to sign veteran FA's who want to win championships. Selling them to spend a winter in Chicago, at reduced salaries, is going to be tough. If they don't do that, they have a great starting 4, and then no bench. The current Finals is proving you can't really do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 11:16 AM) Sterling is looking for dirt on NBA owners. http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_...n-firms-dig-nba A good owner would already have the files stored away somewhere to be slowly leaked out if they vote against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) Convince Carmelo to come in at $11.5 mill. I have another way you can get LeBron, Melo, Derrick Rose, Michael Jordan, and the corpse of Wilt Chamberlain - convince them all to play for free. I have another way as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 So where are the people that complain about not watching the NBA because it's "an iso game" now? Are they the biggest spurs fans in the world or can we just call that b.s. at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) So where are the people that complain about not watching the NBA because it's "an iso game" now? Are they the biggest spurs fans in the world or can we just call that b.s. at this point. I have loved the Spurs for a long time because they are one of the very few TEAMS in the NBA today. They play a great style of basketball, everyone is always in motion, setting screens, backcuts, etc. They also play intelligent and hard defense on the other end of the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxsoxsoxsox Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 10:37 AM) I have loved the Spurs for a long time because they are one of the very few TEAMS in the NBA today. They play a great style of basketball, everyone is always in motion, setting screens, backcuts, etc. They also play intelligent and hard defense on the other end of the floor. I wonder if Pop and Timmy will hang it up if they win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) They'd be the favorites again next year. Duncan still plays like he's 30. Why not go for it again? edit: looks like everyone but Diaw is signed for next year. 2015-2016 is the more logical breaking point. Everyone would have to re-up and Kawhi will get near max deal I would think. http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/SAS.html Here's another question, if the Spurs close it out Sunday, who gets the MVP? Has to be Leonard at this point right? Edited June 13, 2014 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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