NBA Thread 2013-2014

[Balta1701]

If Westbrook is 100% and Howard goes to Houston and is like Orlando Dwight, I like them both better. And Memphis.

 

Will Blake start hitting mid rangers? They lost in the first round. Does this move put them from that to favs in West?

Let's assume for starters that "Not being coached by Vinny Del Negro" is worth at least 1 round in the playoffs, maybe 2.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Let's assume for starters that "Not being coached by Vinny Del Negro" is worth at least 1 round in the playoffs, maybe 2.

 

Blake Griffin has to improve considerably before the Clippers become true contenders, IMO. Hell, he has yet to top his rookie season. Unacceptable when playing with the best pg in basketball.

[Kyyle23]

@SportsTalkCHI: Wow @NickFriedell isn't sure if Gar-Thibs marriage will last the long haul due to how hard Thibs runs his players #sportstalkchi #rightnow

 

And there is the scapegoat

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm going to go ahead and say that Jrue Holiday is much better than a decent point guard. Guy is 23 years old just off his first all star game, very bright future and still getting better. Now he'll have some more weapons (as sad as that sounds) than he did in Philly

 

He's far from the only young point guard in the league. His true shooting percentage was horrible (.496) and his turnovers were through the roof (3.7 per game). He was 21st among PG's in PER this year. If I'm giving up two lottery picks, I better be getting something close to Russell Westbrook, not a guy that has been horribly inefficient.

[ZoomSlowik]

Just match up the backcourts and why I think they're deeper shows up (not just in number of bodies)

 

Rose

Watson

Korver

Brewer

Bogans

 

Rose

Hinrich

Butler

Dunleavy

Snell

Teague

 

If it wasn't for Butler in there, yes it would be less deep because one of the guys would be shoved into a starting role. Instead, the bench is shifted back a slot. There are now more than 1 guy who can shoot the 3, and at least 1 guy who can shoot the 3 ball isn't a complete liability on the defensive end. There are a couple defensive guys (hinrich and Butler) but they're better scorers already than the guys on the 2011 squad (and we all know that if he's healthy Hinrich can handle some of the duties at the 2) And to top that off, there's a backup PG wild card thrown in who might be able to develop into more of a slasher/driver/creator than the guys on the 2011 team if he's pushed.

 

They're not really "sliding down a spot", they're still filling the same roles. The difference is with the starting SG spot, not the rest of it. You were talking about the bench, Butler is not a bench player. Also, Bogans shot 38% from 3 that year and Watson shot 39.3%, so there's no real difference in the number of shooters as of yet.

 

Once again, Snell is a complete wildcard and Teague is unlikely to see much playing time, so I fail to see how that's significantly better than having another veteran wing. They may have more quality because of Dunleavy and Hinrich (emphasis on may), but there's less depth and the difference up front is sizeable.

Edited July 3, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[ZoomSlowik]

As for the Clips, I can't put them ahead of the Thunder or Spurs yet (and possibly Houston if they get Howard, would need to see the roster). However, that definitely helps. Not having to rely on Willie Green, Billups' corpse and Lamar Odom should help a lot.

[ZoomSlowik]

Spurs apparently signing Splitter for 4-36. I thought they were smarter than that...

[Balta1701]

So the Knicks got Andrea Bargnani. Just what they needed: another overpaid player that barely plays defense and loves to jack 3's...

The Knicks gave up Novak in that deal? Man I hated facing that guy, seemed like he'd never miss. He scared me more than Bargnani.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't really see their backcourt depth being that great. Right now they have two decent options with Dunleavy and Hinrich, a rookie wing that may or may not be useful, and Teague, who probably won't have much of an impact unless Rose has injury issues again. The 2011 group had three useful veterans with Watson, Korver and Brewer. Given that they had two options at center instead of one, the 2011 group was deeper and more versatile.

 

I do agree that it helps that Butler is starting instead of Bogans. However, they need at least one more useful big and it probably wouldn't hurt to have one more veteran wing in case of emergency. Butler/Deng/Dunleavy can handle pretty much every minute if they're healthy, but Snell probably isn't ready for the load if something happens to one of them.

Bulls have Taj and Nazr as well on the bench.

[Jordan4life_2007]

If Westbrook is 100% and Howard goes to Houston and is like Orlando Dwight, I like them both better. And Memphis.

 

Will Blake start hitting mid rangers? They lost in the first round. Does this move put them from that to favs in West?

 

Dwight's last 21 games last year: FG% - 58.8, PPG - 20.0, RPG - 13.4, BPG - 2.9, SPG - 1.2

 

Lakers won 15 of those games including the last two without Kobe to go from out of the playoff picture to the 7th seed. Yeah, they got their asses kicked by SA. But what chance did they have without Kobe?

 

Dude could've easily pulled a Rose *me not playing until 12756363%* but toughed it out as much as he could through post back surgery and a labrum tear. He's immature as f*** and not really that bright. But he's a beast.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Has Thibs ever publicly said anything about not wanting to play rookies or has it just been coincidental these last few years that those guys didn't get a lot of playing time?

 

I really wanna see Snell take on the Ronnie Brewer role. They seem like very similar players.

 

I'd also really love to see Murphy push Nazr for some playing time (with Taj manning the 5 spot).

 

Having Rose on the court with Dunleavy, Murphy, and Snell all standing around the 3 point line could be a pretty good lineup. Assuming of course that Snell and Murphys 3 point game can convert to the NBA.

[Jake]

Has Thibs ever publicly said anything about not wanting to play rookies or has it just been coincidental these last few years that those guys didn't get a lot of playing time?

 

I really wanna see Snell take on the Ronnie Brewer role. They seem like very similar players.

 

I'd also really love to see Murphy push Nazr for some playing time (with Taj manning the 5 spot).

 

Having Rose on the court with Dunleavy, Murphy, and Snell all standing around the 3 point line could be a pretty good lineup. Assuming of course that Snell and Murphys 3 point game can convert to the NBA.

 

Snell could make more jumpshots blindfolded than Ronnie Brewer does in NBA games.

 

Likewise, I'd venture to guess that Ronnie does most everything else better than Snell. I don't think they are similar players.

[Balta1701]

Has Thibs ever publicly said anything about not wanting to play rookies or has it just been coincidental these last few years that those guys didn't get a lot of playing time?

 

I really wanna see Snell take on the Ronnie Brewer role. They seem like very similar players.

 

I'd also really love to see Murphy push Nazr for some playing time (with Taj manning the 5 spot).

 

Having Rose on the court with Dunleavy, Murphy, and Snell all standing around the 3 point line could be a pretty good lineup. Assuming of course that Snell and Murphys 3 point game can convert to the NBA.

My memory says Thibs gets incredibly defensive any time he is asked about lineups, rotations, or minutes, whether it's the overuse of Deng/Rose/Noah or minutes for the rookies. He goes into Ozzie "I make the lineups" mode.

[Kyyle23]

Thibs doesnt have to say anything, he simply hasnt played rookies since he has been the head coach.

[Steve9347]

Dwight's last 21 games last year: FG% - 58.8, PPG - 20.0, RPG - 13.4, BPG - 2.9, SPG - 1.2

 

Lakers won 15 of those games including the last two without Kobe to go from out of the playoff picture to the 7th seed. Yeah, they got their asses kicked by SA. But what chance did they have without Kobe?

 

Dude could've easily pulled a Rose *me not playing until 12756363%* but toughed it out as much as he could through post back surgery and a labrum tear. He's immature as f*** and not really that bright. But he's a beast.

This is an accurate statement. D12 was a shell of himself most of the season and went beast mode down the stretch. I still have my reservations about a guy you don't want on the court at the end of a close game being your star, but paired with Harden that team would be a monster.

[Steve9347]

I really wanna see Snell take on the Ronnie Brewer role. They seem like very similar players.

Snell has two arms that are the same length and thus can hit a jump shot.

[Steve9347]

Thibs doesnt have to say anything, he simply hasnt played rookies since he has been the head coach.

The Bulls haven't exactly had electric rookies to play since he's been coach, either. They traded their 1st rounder in 2010 and did not have a 2nd rounder, got a project in Jimmy Butler with the 30th pick in 2011 (did not take a 2nd rounder), and got another incredibly raw player in Marquis Teague in 2012.

 

So, the only "rookies" Thibs has had to work with were unsurprisingly big-time projects given draft position. Say what you will about Jimmy Butler and if he would have become this effective with ample minutes as a rookie, but I'm going to go ahead and say the process worked out pretty damn well with our only example so far!

[Kyyle23]

The Bulls haven't exactly had electric rookies to play since he's been coach, either. They traded their 1st rounder in 2010 and did not have a 2nd rounder, got a project in Jimmy Butler with the 30th pick in 2011 (did not take a 2nd rounder), and got another incredibly raw player in Marquis Teague in 2012.

 

So, the only "rookies" Thibs has had to work with were unsurprisingly big-time projects given draft position. Say what you will about Jimmy Butler and if he would have become this effective with ample minutes as a rookie, but I'm going to go ahead and say the process worked out pretty damn well with our only example so far!

 

Im not doubting his process, Im just not expecting Thibs to give Snell minutes that he gave Ronnie Brewer.

[Balta1701]

Im not doubting his process, Im just not expecting Thibs to give Snell minutes that he gave Ronnie Brewer.

Well I wouldn't expect that either, but not because of anything bad about Snell, instead because Ronnie Brewer was getting almost starters minutes by default because of the lack of a starting shooting guard.

[Chi Town Sox]

He just had incredible usage last year. Usage = stats. He shot 43% and turned the ball over 4 times per game.

 

What is Russell Westbrook then? Lower career FG% and AST/TO ratio of under 2 which is horrendous even with a top 2 player in the game on his team. Isn't he considered elite? Jrue is 23 years old and will only get better with more time under his belt

 

Difficult to be efficient when the you are on a team where Thaddeus Young is your second best player. Have we already forgotten the Sixers being a game 7 away from ECF led by Holiday? Now he has Eric Gordon (if not traded) and Ryan Anderson on the wings and some guy named Anthony Davis to practice alley oops with

Edited July 3, 2013 by Chi Town Sox

[Soxbadger]

@SportsTalkCHI: Wow @NickFriedell isn't sure if Gar-Thibs marriage will last the long haul due to how hard Thibs runs his players #sportstalkchi #rightnow

 

And there is the scapegoat

 

And in other news water still wet. It was never popular on this board, but Ive been saying this about Thibs style for over a year now?

 

You cant destroy your best assets, no owner of any business would allow a manager to do that.

[Chisoxfn]

Dwight's last 21 games last year: FG% - 58.8, PPG - 20.0, RPG - 13.4, BPG - 2.9, SPG - 1.2

 

Lakers won 15 of those games including the last two without Kobe to go from out of the playoff picture to the 7th seed. Yeah, they got their asses kicked by SA. But what chance did they have without Kobe?

 

Dude could've easily pulled a Rose *me not playing until 12756363%* but toughed it out as much as he could through post back surgery and a labrum tear. He's immature as f*** and not really that bright. But he's a beast.

Dwight was a top 20 player last year despite being in two new systems, playing with new guys, and coming off of a serious injury and being out of shape. His demise was drastically overrated by analysts around. He'll have a full off-season off this year. I'd still trade for him if I were the Bulls but Houston would be getting a stud. I still won't write the Lakers off though.

[Chisoxfn]

Thibs doesnt have to say anything, he simply hasnt played rookies since he has been the head coach.

Taj got a lot of minutes as a rookie Asik played as well, IIRC. However, now that I say that...I realize they both played under VDN.

[Kyyle23]

Taj got a lot of minutes as a rookie Asik played as well, IIRC.

 

Taj wasnt a rookie under Thibs, and Asik took a while before Thibs put him into a heavy rotation.

[Soxbadger]

Thibs doesnt have to say anything, he simply hasnt played rookies since he has been the head coach.

 

And this is part of the problem. As a coach you take the assets you are given and you use them. You dont have Butler sit on the bench for an entire year and have Deng play an ungodly amount of minutes while injured.

 

Its short term winning for long term losing. And it was only a matter of time before someone started to look and realize that:

 

Teams who have injured stars dont win NBA championships.

 

So it is actually better to lose a bunch in the regular season and be completely healthy, than to get the #1 seed and have half your team injured.

 

Would you rather play Miami in the first round and have a fully healthy team? Or play them in the Conference finals with no Deng, Noah or Rose.

 

Its not rocket science and eventually there was going to be fall out from Rose not playing an entire year after he was overplayed when he was injured the year before.