bmags Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 31, 2014 -> 12:33 AM) A less contentious and perhaps more easily measured question -- what caliber of scorer are we talking about w/ KD? Is he the best since Jordan (that would mean better than Kobe)? It's hard. Kobe's numbers also rely on a few years of not giving a s*** about getting his teammates involved. That 2006 season was insane for his rebounding and scoring, but yeah. So maybe with KD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 06:56 PM) It's hard. Kobe's numbers also rely on a few years of not giving a s*** about getting his teammates involved. That 2006 season was insane for his rebounding and scoring, but yeah. So maybe with KD. I was thinking of going this way but then I looked at the stats and found that KD has already picked up 3 scoring titles and is on his way to a 4th, by the age of 25. Kobe only had 2, at age 27-28. Yes, Kobe had other guys around him, but 4 scoring titles at this age is something to behold. If he keeps going and peaks in 3 years like Kobe's numbers did, we could be talking a guy with 8-9 scoring titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:59 PM) I was thinking of going this way but then I looked at the stats and found that KD has already picked up 3 scoring titles and is on his way to a 4th, by the age of 25. Kobe only had 2, at age 27-28. Yes, Kobe had other guys around him, but 4 scoring titles at this age is something to behold. If he keeps going and peaks in 3 years like Kobe's numbers did, we could be talking a guy with 8-9 scoring titles. Durant has Westbrook. That isn't exactly nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 David Schuster Congrats to Joakim Noah who makes his 2nd All Star game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:59 PM) I was thinking of going this way but then I looked at the stats and found that KD has already picked up 3 scoring titles and is on his way to a 4th, by the age of 25. Kobe only had 2, at age 27-28. Yes, Kobe had other guys around him, but 4 scoring titles at this age is something to behold. If he keeps going and peaks in 3 years like Kobe's numbers did, we could be talking a guy with 8-9 scoring titles. I have no problem with anybody who says Durant > Kobe as a scorer. But please don't use scoring titles in any way whatsoever as an argument for Durant. Kobe spent the first 8 years of his career playing second banana to Shaq O'neal. That is a BIG deal. Kobe easily racks up scoring titles well before '06 without Shaq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:56 PM) It's hard. Kobe's numbers also rely on a few years of not giving a s*** about getting his teammates involved. That 2006 season was insane for his rebounding and scoring, but yeah. So maybe with KD. Are you serious? In '06 and '07 Kobe was running with Smush Parker,, Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown and Wite, I mean Luke Walton. He had no choice but to fire away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 07:23 PM) Durant has Westbrook. That isn't exactly nothing. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 07:53 PM) I have no problem with anybody who says Durant > Kobe as a scorer. But please don't use scoring titles in any way whatsoever as an argument for Durant. Kobe spent the first 8 years of his career playing second banana to Shaq O'neal. That is a BIG deal. Kobe easily racks up scoring titles well before '06 without Shaq. 2k5s should have been directed at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 07:29 PM) 2k5s should have been directed at you. I don't get it. Are we comparing Westbrook to peak Shaq? If so this is the last post you'll read from me because I'm going to kill myself with rat poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 08:56 PM) I don't get it. Are we comparing Westbrook to peak Shaq? If so this is the last post you'll read from me because I'm going to kill myself with rat poison. 99-00 shaq ? No, but Durant seems like a long ways ahead of 20 year old Kobe too. 2004 Shaq when they were all kinda collapsing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 08:37 PM) 99-00 shaq ? No, but Durant seems like a long ways ahead of 20 year old Kobe too. 2004 Shaq when they were all kinda collapsing? Well, he's not. Durant was a rookie at 20, no? He was on an awful team and had the freedom to f*** up, take dumb shots, etc, and didn't have the LA media to deal with. Kobe, at 19 while coming off the bench, played well enough to make the all-star team as a starter (yeah, fans are dumb) and had people comparing him to Mike. Kobe's game was advanced as all hell by the age of 21 and 28-30 ppg would've been a cinch if not for Shaq, Phil and the triangle. Durant playing with Westbrook is not even in the same galaxy as Shaq holding Kobe back individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Oh, and I'm totally off the Kyrie Irving bandwagon. His handles and commercials are nice. But the Cavs have sucked for three years running now. He's just a great fantasy player at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 In terms of teammates stealing one's scoring potential, I wouldn't so easily discount the Westbrook effect. Shaq in LA - 18.5 FGA/G Westbrook, last 3 seasons - 18.2 FGA/G Then again, Shaq has a big advantage in FTA/G at 10.8 to 7, which shows that he often had the ball, tried to shoot, but was hacked. Of course, Shaq was no point guard. Kobe had the ability to keep the ball from Shaq but the inverse wasn't all that true. Throughout Westbrook's career, his propensity (or perhaps lack thereof) to steal shots from KD has been hotly debated. Seems like only these types of conversations evoke the "Shaq holding back Kobe's scoring" debate when the opposite debate was going on when they played together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 08:53 PM) In terms of teammates stealing one's scoring potential, I wouldn't so easily discount the Westbrook effect. Shaq in LA - 18.5 FGA/G Westbrook, last 3 seasons - 18.2 FGA/G Then again, Shaq has a big advantage in FTA/G at 10.8 to 7, which shows that he often had the ball, tried to shoot, but was hacked. Of course, Shaq was no point guard. Kobe had the ability to keep the ball from Shaq but the inverse wasn't all that true. Throughout Westbrook's career, his propensity (or perhaps lack thereof) to steal shots from KD has been hotly debated. Seems like only these types of conversations evoke the "Shaq holding back Kobe's scoring" debate when the opposite debate was going on when they played together. Not true at all. Watch that video and listen to what Bob Costas and Doug Collins are saying about Kobe (the highlights are sick, too). Kobe was more than capable of leading the league in scoring as young as age 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 KD's .617 TS% over the last 5 seasons is pretty remarkable, too. Compare to Kobe's .556 TS% after his first two seasons (same subtraction I gave KD), minus this one MJ checks in at .579 from 3rd season through Bulls era, FWIW. eFG% over same time spans - MJ .519, Kobe .488, KD .536 ORtg - MJ 121, Kobe 112, KD 118 I don't think scoring titles are irrelevant, though they are certainly context-dependent. On the other hand, I think it is a good way to see how a player scores relative to his league. KD - 5 consecutive if these season holds (4 per game titles, Carmelo had more ppg last year) Kobe - 4 in a 6 season span (2 per game titles) MJ - 11, including 7 in a row, and won in each season that he played more than 67 games (only non-winning close-to-full seasons were with Washington). 10 ppg titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 07:56 PM) I don't get it. Are we comparing Westbrook to peak Shaq? If so this is the last post you'll read from me because I'm going to kill myself with rat poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 31, 2014 -> 02:52 AM) Oh, and I'm totally off the Kyrie Irving bandwagon. His handles and commercials are nice. But the Cavs have sucked for three years running now. He's just a great fantasy player at this point. I've also never actually seen a game where he played well (though I hear they happen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 31, 2014 -> 12:56 AM) Are you serious? In '06 and '07 Kobe was running with Smush Parker,, Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown and Wite, I mean Luke Walton. He had no choice but to fire away. Right, poor choice of words. I mean some of his most prolific scoring years he had free reign to jack up every shot. I don't think it's a bad thing though. To me 2006 is when I really started to respect Kobe on his own, and the struggle those years to the top at the end of the decade was a good story. But then he threw all the good will away that away game where he kept the team waiting while he shot jumpers the rest of the night (with media watching). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 06:24 PM) David Schuster Congrats to Joakim Noah who makes his 2nd All Star game The East front court sucks. In all honesty, Noah and Millsap aren't all-stars, especially when Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins didn't make the team in the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 06:56 PM) Are you serious? In '06 and '07 Kobe was running with Smush Parker,, Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown and Wite, I mean Luke Walton. He had no choice but to fire away. Hey bro I could hit some shots and I looked good with shorts and curly hair and yeah f*** you're right I suck at basketball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 31, 2014 -> 04:17 PM) The East front court sucks. In all honesty, Noah and Millsap aren't all-stars, especially when Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins didn't make the team in the West. Boo hoo, this is the first year that another conference has been stacked at position that the other wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 07:56 PM) I don't get it. Are we comparing Westbrook to peak Shaq? If so this is the last post you'll read from me because I'm going to kill myself with rat poison. Directly? No. But in terms of complimenting Durant's game? Absolutely. Having one of the best PGs in the game is a huge help for a scorer. For Kobe, Shaq was a blackhole that took away from his production. Shaq couldn't pass to save his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sam Kirkland @samkirkla 1h Every state in @SportsNation poll gives NBA commish David Stern a 'B' grade — except Washington (F) and Oklahoma (A) pic.twitter.com/Ek2ivzBn5B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 31, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) The East front court sucks. In all honesty, Noah and Millsap aren't all-stars, especially when Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins didn't make the team in the West. Noah's January is all-star worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Taj could be the next Bull traded... Speculation from the ST http://www.suntimes.com/sports/25302606-41...ding-block.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 If Taj gets moved, it tells you they plan on going after a major piece. Otherwise no sense in moving Taj, who is actually playing very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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