NBA Thread 2013-2014

[Soxbadger]

I was alive back then. I can definitely say the Bulls would have drafted Bird. Bird and Magic were clearly the best 2 players in college basketball.

 

You cant definitely say they would have drafted them. Someone passed on MJ with Bowie, someone passed on Durant for Oden.

 

So while you can say "The Bulls could have had Bird", theres nothing to guarantee it.

 

Not to mention:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

 

Had the Lakers selected Larry, the Bulls would have gotten neither. So its pointless to speculate.

[Dick Allen]

You cant definitely say they would have drafted them. Someone passed on MJ with Bowie, someone passed on Durant for Oden.

 

So while you can say "The Bulls could have had Bird", theres nothing to guarantee it.

 

Not to mention:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

 

Had the Lakers selected Larry, the Bulls would have gotten neither. So its pointless to speculate.

 

You weren't alive back then. No offense, but Bird and Magic were college basketball, and even if Rod Thorn thought Greenwood would turn out better, there is zero chance he passes on Bird. And if they got neither, they probably wind up with Magic's MSU buddy Kelser or Sidney Moncrief. I doubt they take Cartwright with Artis Gilmore around.

 

It's not like David Greenwood was Mr. Athleticism either.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Soxbadger]

You weren't alive back then. No offense, but Bird and Magic were college basketball, and even if Rod Thorn thought Greenwood would turn out better, there is zero chance he passes on Bird.

 

I wasnt alive back then. But youre arguing that no team has ever made a bad decision, no team has ever stupidly fallen in love with a player.

 

So, sorry, unless you are actually Rod Thorn, you are just speculating. And its a waste of time to speculate, because it involves things outside of your control. Like you dont know if the Lakers would have picked Larry or Magic.

 

But yes I get that in 2014 its easy to say what would have happened. Just like we can all say that there is no way the Blazers would ever select Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan or that Greg Oden would be picked over Durant.

 

Oh wait.

 

(edit)

 

Now Im just confused. The Bulls did select Greenwood #2, they could have had Moncrief or Kelser, but picked Greenwood. Are you actually now arguing that the Bulls wouldnt have selected the player they actually selected at #2?????

 

This is really confusing.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Soxbadger

[Dick Allen]

I wasnt alive back then. But youre arguing that no team has ever made a bad decision, no team has ever stupidly fallen in love with a player.

 

So, sorry, unless you are actually Rod Thorn, you are just speculating. And its a waste of time to speculate, because it involves things outside of your control. Like you dont know if the Lakers would have picked Larry or Magic.

 

But yes I get that in 2014 its easy to say what would have happened. Just like we can all say that there is no way the Blazers would ever select Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan or that Greg Oden would be picked over Durant.

 

Oh wait.

 

(edit)

 

Now Im just confused. The Bulls did select Greenwood #2, they could have had Moncrief or Kelser, but picked Greenwood. Are you actually now arguing that the Bulls wouldnt have selected the player they actually selected at #2?????

 

This is really confusing.

No. I was confused by your post and thought you were saying there was a possibilty they wouldn't have had Magic or Greenwood.

 

Believe what you want to believe, but Bird would have been a "top" pick in 1979, and if it were guaranteed he would have not gone back to school, more than likely he goes before #6 in 1978.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Well Im not involved in the "top pick" discussion. Bird was a top pick, no doubt about that.

[Kyyle23]

I don't get it. If he gets amnestied he still gets his money and more when he signs with a new team.

 

Maybe because he knows his starting days in the league are numbered, at least on a title competitive team.

[bmags]

I'm gonna withdraw from this debate. There will be no clear winner on how good Mirotic is when our only scouting is on youtube vids and euro production arguments. And the idea that Larry Bird wouldn't be good in today's NBA.

[bmags]

You cant definitely say they would have drafted them. Someone passed on MJ with Bowie, someone passed on Durant for Oden.

 

So while you can say "The Bulls could have had Bird", theres nothing to guarantee it.

 

Not to mention:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

 

Had the Lakers selected Larry, the Bulls would have gotten neither. So its pointless to speculate.

 

While it's cute to act like Oden was such a bonehead pick now, that guy was clearly the best player in college and there was nothing in the NBA for big men at the time. He and Howard would have dominated if not for his legs.

[Soxbadger]

While it's cute to act like Oden was such a bonehead pick now, that guy was clearly the best player in college and there was nothing in the NBA for big men at the time. He and Howard would have dominated if not for his legs.

 

Who said that he wasnt a great player in College? I loved Oden and likely would have taken him over Durant (unless of course there was a red flag with his knee but Im just presuming the Blazers arent that dumb after the Bowie incident.)

 

The point is its easy now to say "Why would you pick Oden", its much harder when you dont have the luxury of hindsight. So youre basically making my point, its easy now to say "Why did someone pick Oden", it was much harder back then.

[Dick Allen]

Who said that he wasnt a great player in College? I loved Oden and likely would have taken him over Durant (unless of course there was a red flag with his knee but Im just presuming the Blazers arent that dumb after the Bowie incident.)

 

The point is its easy now to say "Why would you pick Oden", its much harder when you dont have the luxury of hindsight. So youre basically making my point, its easy now to say "Why did someone pick Oden", it was much harder back then.

But injuries wouldn't have been an issue with Bird vs. Greenwood. As the college player of the year in 1979 Bird averaged 28.6 points, 14.9 rebounds and 5.5 assists a game. Even though Greenwood probably could beat him in a 40 yd. dash, and probably jump higher than him, Bird was clearly the better player.

[bmags]

But injuries wouldn't have been an issue with Bird vs. Greenwood. As the college player of the year in 1979 Bird averaged 28.6 points, 14.9 rebounds and 5.5 assists a game. Even though Greenwood probably could beat him in a 40 yd. dash, and probably jump higher than him, Bird was clearly the better player.

 

Thanks, this was my point. I don't think you can use Bowie as an example of why Bird would not have been selected. Bird was Oden in this case, he just happened to work out.

[Quin]

Back to Melo talk, it's actually possible to retain Taj/Jimmy/Noah/Mirotic

 

It requires a desperate, forced hand Knicks team.

 

Boozer, Kirk, and Snell have to go out. Felton has to come in from the Knicks as well.

 

Bulls In: Melo, Felton

Bulls Out: Boozer, Kirk, Snell, Picks on Picks on Picks

 

Throw in Okafor as a possibility to be swapped in if the Suns do find they want Booz.

[Soxbadger]

But injuries wouldn't have been an issue with Bird vs. Greenwood. As the college player of the year in 1979 Bird averaged 28.6 points, 14.9 rebounds and 5.5 assists a game. Even though Greenwood probably could beat him in a 40 yd. dash, and probably jump higher than him, Bird was clearly the better player.

 

Because players who put up the best stats are always drafted highest?

 

Im not even sure Doug McDermott will be a top 5 pick, and hes likely going to be one (if not the most) productive player in this NBA draft class.

 

[southsider2k5]

Because players who put up the best stats are always drafted highest?

 

Im not even sure Doug McDermott will be a top 5 pick, and hes likely going to be one (if not the most) productive player in this NBA draft class.

 

Adam Morrison said hi from the unemployment line!

[Dick Allen]

Because players who put up the best stats are always drafted highest?

 

Im not even sure Doug McDermott will be a top 5 pick, and hes likely going to be one (if not the most) productive player in this NBA draft class.

Since you weren't alive back then you don't realize that even if the Bulls thought Greenwood was better than Bird, and I know you refuse to believe me, but there was no chance of that, there is no way they would have passed on the box office Bird would have brought the team.

 

The Bulls were in a lot different place back then. 5 years later they were sold to JR, and JR didn't pay them 1 penny with MJ on the roster. He assumed some debt.

[Chisoxfn]

Who said that he wasnt a great player in College? I loved Oden and likely would have taken him over Durant (unless of course there was a red flag with his knee but Im just presuming the Blazers arent that dumb after the Bowie incident.)

 

The point is its easy now to say "Why would you pick Oden", its much harder when you dont have the luxury of hindsight. So youre basically making my point, its easy now to say "Why did someone pick Oden", it was much harder back then.

And if I went back in a time machine, given all the facts, everyone would have taken Oden. I remember early in Durants career in Seattle people were labeling him a potential bust too (during the first half of his rookie year).

[Chisoxfn]

Back to Melo talk, it's actually possible to retain Taj/Jimmy/Noah/Mirotic

 

It requires a desperate, forced hand Knicks team.

 

Boozer, Kirk, and Snell have to go out. Felton has to come in from the Knicks as well.

 

Bulls In: Melo, Felton

Bulls Out: Boozer, Kirk, Snell, Picks on Picks on Picks

 

Throw in Okafor as a possibility to be swapped in if the Suns do find they want Booz.

Knicks wouldn't want Boozer, so you have to find someone else to take Boozer and basically make this all about cash savings + draft picks. And melo would have had to force the issue.

[whitesoxfan99]

Back to Melo talk, it's actually possible to retain Taj/Jimmy/Noah/Mirotic

 

It requires a desperate, forced hand Knicks team.

 

Boozer, Kirk, and Snell have to go out. Felton has to come in from the Knicks as well.

 

Bulls In: Melo, Felton

Bulls Out: Boozer, Kirk, Snell, Picks on Picks on Picks

 

Throw in Okafor as a possibility to be swapped in if the Suns do find they want Booz.

 

There is literally no reason for the Knicks to do that deal.

[Chisoxfn]

There is literally no reason for the Knicks to do that deal.

Not without finding a way to get Boozer elsewhere and not without Melo basically putting a gun to their head saying its either this or I walk in the off-season and you don't get Snell + picks.

[Quin]

Not without finding a way to get Boozer elsewhere and not without Melo basically putting a gun to their head saying its either this or I walk in the off-season and you don't get Snell + picks.

 

This is the only way it happens.

 

If Melo puts a gun to their head, what's better: Snell and a lot of picks, or nothing?

 

The Charlotte Pick, Sacramento pick, Cleveland swap, and a few more Bulls picks could go a long way for a franchise that seemingly traded all of theirs.

[Soxbadger]

Im not even sure why people are directing their comments at me. Im the one saying you never know what will happen on draft day and that its somewhat silly to go back and say "What if".

 

Im also not sure why its so important to get Anthony. It just seems like a move to make a move. With Rose uncertain Id rather have the picks and see if we can get lucky.

[bmags]

This is the only way it happens.

 

If Melo puts a gun to their head, what's better: Snell and a lot of picks, or nothing?

 

The Charlotte Pick, Sacramento pick, Cleveland swap, and a few more Bulls picks could go a long way for a franchise that seemingly traded all of theirs.

 

I mean, if you were saying the same trade except it was the Lakers proposing it everyone would be like...yeah sure. s*** just happens for them, I'd love the same.

 

 

It seems like the Lakers offers are always "Hey, we'll take your superstar off your hands in a way that will make you terrible quickly. Good trade?" And the other line says yes.

[Quin]

I mean, if you were saying the same trade except it was the Lakers proposing it everyone would be like...yeah sure. s*** just happens for them, I'd love the same.

 

 

It seems like the Lakers offers are always "Hey, we'll take your superstar off your hands in a way that will make you terrible quickly. Good trade?" And the other line says yes.

 

Hell, this would be more fair than what the Lakers can offer.

[witesoxfan]

That almost happened with them and Chris Paul.

[Jenksismyhero]

Im not even sure why people are directing their comments at me. Im the one saying you never know what will happen on draft day and that its somewhat silly to go back and say "What if".

 

Im also not sure why its so important to get Anthony. It just seems like a move to make a move. With Rose uncertain Id rather have the picks and see if we can get lucky.

 

I'm the opposite. Odds of drafting an elite scorer and all-star, even in the lottery, aren't great. And on top of that, you'll have to wait a few seasons to get to that point.

 

Melo is a proven, ready-to-win now move. Picks are what the Bulls have been doing for the last 5 years. I'm not sold on the idea that Melo would ever play defense well enough for Thibs. And I'm not sure how Rose and Melo would work. I think they'd figure it out eventually, and it's certainly closer to a championship contending team than without Melo.

 

I say pull the trigger unless they think they can get a guy like Love.