NBA Thread 2013-2014

[chw42]

Nate seriously was better last year. Don't let Monta's high usage rate fool you, Robinson's PER was a point higher, his TS% was like 5 points higher and he the same points and more assists per 40 than Monta did and a lower turnover rate. Now you can say that Nate usually isn't that good, but a $10 million a year player shouldn't be remotely comparable to a veteran minimum guy.

 

I'm honestly hoping Nate is back. Depending on what the Bulls really offered, I'd much rather not have Ellis.

 

I mean, FFS Earl Watson got signed already. Nate at the minimum would be awesome.

[Chisoxfn]

Nate seriously was better last year. Don't let Monta's high usage rate fool you, Robinson's PER was a point higher, his TS% was like 5 points higher and he the same points and more assists per 40 than Monta did and a lower turnover rate. Now you can say that Nate usually isn't that good, but a $10 million a year player shouldn't be remotely comparable to a veteran minimum guy.

I'm not talking about one season...talking about a career here. I'm not saying Ellis would be perfect but depending on what you give up, he clearly would make the Bulls a better team. I'm sick of the Bulls cheap attitude. They could have had Mayo a year ago (which would have been better then Hinrich). Gar just can't execute the transactions. Very smart basketball wise and a good judge of talent...can't execute big moves though (and I'm going to say that until proven otherwise).

[Jordan4life_2007]

Nate seriously was better last year. Don't let Monta's high usage rate fool you, Robinson's PER was a point higher, his TS% was like 5 points higher and he had more points and assists per 40 than Monta did. Now you can say that Nate usually isn't that good, but a $10 million a year player shouldn't be remotely comparable to a veteran minimum guy.

 

Ellis sucked last year. But stop it. The Bucks were never a good fit for him. And he's clearly better than Nate. Ellis shot 36.1% on nearly 5 attempts per game his last full year at GS. If he could do that, combined with his ability to put the ball on the floor/create and his defensive ball-hawking (he's usually in the top 10 in steals), he'd be much more impactful than Nate. Problem is that Rose is not a true PG and ball-dominant as f***. Could he adjust his game? I doubt it.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jordan4life

[Chisoxfn]

Ellis sucked last year. But stop it. The Bucks were never a good fit for him. And he's clearly better than Nate. Ellis shot 36.1% on nearly 5 attempts per game his last full year at GS. If he could do that, combined with his ability to put the ball on the floor and his defensive ball-hawking (he's usually in the top 10 in steals), he'd be much more impactful than Nate. Problem is that Rose is not a true PG and ball-dominant as f***. Could he adjust his game? I doubt it.

Ellis game was at his best when he had other good/decent players around him. He hasn't had that in some time (and Jennings doesn't count). Bucks were going to let those guys just run wild and jack up shot after shot. I do think you have a valid point and am not suer if he could adjust his game but maybe he wants tow in and this Bulls team has a lot of veteran leadership which could set the tone (plus Thibbs is just such a good coach). I'd take my chances cause it would be really nice to have another player on the roster who could create.

 

[chw42]

Ellis sucked last year. But stop it. The Bucks were never a good fit for him. And he's clearly better than Nate. Ellis shot 36.1% on nearly 5 attempts per game his last full year at GS. If he could do that, combined with his ability to put the ball on the floor/create and his defensive ball-hawking (he's usually in the top 10 in steals), he'd be much more impactful than Nate. Problem is that Rose is not a true PG and ball-dominant as f***. Could he adjust his game? I doubt it.

 

Ellis is a mediocre defender at best.

 

If Monta can go back to being 07-08 Monta, when he had a .580 TS%, I'd gladly trade anyone besides Butler, Rose, and Noah for him.

 

Even then, he's not an ideal fit. Unless Thibs can get Ellis to stop chucking and do nothing but drive, I don't see how this makes the Bulls any better, regardless of how good of a deal we get in the trade.

[ZoomSlowik]

Ellis sucked last year. But stop it. The Bucks were never a good fit for him. And he's clearly better than Nate. Ellis shot 36.1% on nearly 5 attempts per game his last full year at GS. If he could do that, combined with his ability to put the ball on the floor and his defensive ball-hawking (he's usually in the top 10 in steals), he'd be much more impactful than Nate. Problem is that Rose is not a true PG and ball-dominant as f***. Could he adjust his game? I doubt it.

 

That 36.1% was his best year by a fair margin. He's a career 31.8% shooter on way more attempts than he should take. He's basically a 6'3" version of Nate. The guy is not good.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ellis is a mediocre defender at best.

 

If Monta can go back to being 07-08 Monta, when he had a .580 TS%, I'd gladly trade anyone besides Butler, Rose, and Noah for him.

 

Even then, he's not an ideal fit. Unless Thibs can get Ellis to stop chucking and do nothing but drive, I don't see how this makes the Bulls any better, regardless of how good of a deal we get in the trade.

 

Cool. So let's go into next season praying that Rose, Deng, Noah and Boozer are all healthy come playoff time (lol@that ever happening) and lose to Miami again. I'm shocked the Bulls were even looking at Ellis.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm not talking about one season...talking about a career here. I'm not saying Ellis would be perfect but depending on what you give up, he clearly would make the Bulls a better team. I'm sick of the Bulls cheap attitude. They could have had Mayo a year ago (which would have been better then Hinrich). Gar just can't execute the transactions. Very smart basketball wise and a good judge of talent...can't execute big moves though (and I'm going to say that until proven otherwise).

 

He's very far from perfect. He's a below average shooter with poor shooting efficiency and uses a very high number of possessions. Oh, and he's a bad defender. Basically his only plus skill is getting to the rim, which he can't do while Rose has the ball. He just can't take his usual 18-20 shots with Rose here, it would end poorly.

[chw42]

Cool. So let's go into next season praying that Rose, Deng, Noah and Boozer are all healthy come playoff time (lol@that ever happening) and lose to Miami again. I'm shocked the Bulls were even looking at Ellis.

 

Replace Boozer with Ellis (and assume Ellis is healthy) and you're looking at a second round exit if Rose and/or Noah are hurt. So in reality, it doesn't matter.

Edited July 10, 2013 by chw42

[Jordan4life_2007]

He's very far from perfect. He's a below average shooter with poor shooting efficiency and uses a very high number of possessions. Oh, and he's a bad defender. Basically his only plus skill is getting to the rim, which he can't do while Rose has the ball. He just can't take his usual 18-20 shots with Rose here, it would end poorly.

 

Disagree. And if thibs is as good as Bulls fans say he is (there's more to being a good coach then beating up on awful eastern conference teams), he should be able to do something with Ellis. Because Jimmy Butler as a full-time 2 guard is a losing proposition.

[ZoomSlowik]

Disagree. And if thibs is as good as Bulls fans say he is (there's more to being a good coach then beating up on awful eastern conference teams), he should be able to do something with Ellis. Because Jimmy Butler as a full-time 2 guard is a losing proposition.

 

Unless the NBA lets Thibs put a shock collar on Monta that gives him 10,000 volts every time he takes a bad jumper, overplays a passing lane or slacks off defensively, I wouldn't expect miracles.

 

How about Butler plays a full year before you toss him on the trash heap? He was a useful player last year that played on both ends of the floor. Every contender has at least one questionable player in the starting lineup, and Butler could easily be better than "questionable".

[Jordan4life_2007]

Replace Boozer with Ellis (and assume Ellis is healthy) and you're looking at a second round exit if Rose and/or Noah are hurt. So in reality, it doesn't matter.

 

Noah/Taj/Deng/Ellis/Rose with Butler/Dunleavy as the 6th and 7th menn. That's some serious length and athleticism. I'll roll with that against the Heat. I don't care. The Bulls had their chance in '11 and got rolled. I don't want to go with that crap again.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jordan4life

[chw42]

Unless the NBA lets Thibs put a shock collar on Monta that gives him 10,000 volts every time he takes a bad jumper, overplays a passing lane or slacks off defensively, I wouldn't expect miracles.

 

How about Butler plays a full year before you toss him on the trash heap? He was a useful player last year that played on both ends of the floor. Every contender has at least one questionable player in the starting lineup, and Butler could easily be better than "questionable".

 

Butler is way better than questionable.

 

With the minutes he played last year and how effective he was in most of the games, I'm kind of already sold on him.

 

[ZoomSlowik]

Noah/Taj/Deng/Ellis/Rose with Butler/Dunleavy as the 6th and 7th menn. That's some serious length and athleticism. I'll roll with that against the Heat. I don't care. The Bulls had their chance in '11 and got rolled. I don't want to go with that crap again.

 

It would be the exact same crap. You'd still see the Heat pack the paint and laugh while the Bulls' brick jumpers. The Bulls would also be using a 6'3" SG instead of a 6'7"-ish one. The only reason the result might improve at all is getting Boozer's ass off the floor, but then again the backup bigs would be terrible.

[Chisoxfn]

Unless the NBA lets Thibs put a shock collar on Monta that gives him 10,000 volts every time he takes a bad jumper, overplays a passing lane or slacks off defensively, I wouldn't expect miracles.

 

How about Butler plays a full year before you toss him on the trash heap? He was a useful player last year that played on both ends of the floor. Every contender has at least one questionable player in the starting lineup, and Butler could easily be better than "questionable".

I really like Butler, however, I still think the Bulls are going to look to move Deng and Butler might ultimately end up sliding into that role (I have zero problem with Jimmy B starting; extremely efficient young player who plays above average defense, rebounds well, and is a very efficient scorer with an improving jumper).

[ZoomSlowik]

Butler is way better than questionable.

 

With the minutes he played last year and how effective he was in most of the games, I'm kind of already sold on him.

 

We'll see. I don't think he's going to be a liability, but I'm not convinced he'll be very good either. He was solid defensively and showed flashes on offense, but he also played like 7 million minutes and scored about 14 a game at the end of the year. I do like that he can get to the line, hopefully his 3-point percentage wasn't a fluke.

[chw42]

We'll see. I don't think he's going to be a liability, but I'm not convinced he'll be very good either. He was solid defensively and showed flashes on offense, but he also played like 7 million minutes and scored about 14 a game at the end of the year. I do like that he can get to the line, hopefully his 3-point percentage wasn't a fluke.

 

The Bulls almost won 3 games against the Heat with Keith Bogans as the SG 2 years ago.

 

I think Jimmy scoring 12-14 points a game is fine. They don't need him to score 15+ a game. That'd be nice, but any kind of efficient offensive contribution from the 2 spot is good enough for me at this point.

[Jordan4life_2007]

It would be the exact same crap. You'd still see the Heat pack the paint and laugh while the Bulls' brick jumpers. The Bulls would also be using a 6'3" SG instead of a 6'7"-ish one. The only reason the result might improve at all is getting Boozer's ass off the floor, but then again the backup bigs would be terrible.

 

The Bulls had nobody that could put the ball on the floor and dish like Ellis can in '11 (other than Rose). That and no Boozer would give you a much better shot. Look, there's no '06 Kobe Bryant out there. There's no perfect fit. This organization needs to stop being so f***ing lame and do something, even if it's questionable. Thibs is all that? Let me see it. If he's the next George Karl (lots of regular season wins and nothing else), then get him outta here.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jordan4life

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Bulls almost won 3 games against the Heat with Keith Bogans as the SG 2 years ago.

 

I think Jimmy scoring 12-14 points a game is fine. They don't need him to score 15+ a game. That'd be nice, but any kind of efficient offensive contribution from the 2 spot is good enough for me at this point.

 

This is what I'm talkin' about. You sound just like a 90's Knicks, Pacers or Jazz fan would had the internet been then what it is today. "Well, we only lost by an average of 5.2 ppg. We're not that far off." Stop. That's just not good enough. If you want to chop down the second greatest player of all-time, you must get creative.

[ZoomSlowik]

The Bulls had nobody that could put the ball on the floor and dish like Ellis can in '11. That and no Boozer would give you a much better shot. Look, there's no '06 Kobe Bryant out there. There's no perfect fit. This organization needs to stop being so f***ing lame and do something, even if it's questionable. Thibs is all that? Let me see it. If he's the next George Karl (lots of regular season wins and nothing else), then get him outta here.

 

They had Rose. They had plenty of open looks that series because the Heat were so worried about stopping him, they just bricked them constantly. It's not like Ellis was any better against the Heat this year.

 

They don't need to find '06 Bryant, they just need a guy that is somewhat of a threat, helps space the floor a bit and doesn't kill them with stupid decisions and bad defense. Butler looks like he'll be at least serviceable for about 1/10th the price. They already have a high volume shooter at the point with middling efficiency, they don't need to put a chucker next to him with even weaker efficiency and no size. This is especially true if they're still rolling with Deng, who has a slightly better TS% than Ellis over the last several years when you look at the average.

 

If they can get someone that's actually good, okay. See what happens with Love and whether Portland actually gets desperate enough to get Aldridge. Let the Kings get Ellis and then wonder why they still suck when they got such a great scorer.

Edited July 10, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[ZoomSlowik]

This is what I'm talkin' about. You sound just like a 90's Knicks, Pacers or Jazz fan would had the internet been then what it is today. "Well, we only lost by an average of 5.2 ppg. We're not that far off." Stop. That's just not good enough. If you want to chop down the second greatest player of all-time, you must get someone a lot better than Monta Ellis.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Fixed it for you.

 

Or LaMarcus Aldridge, or Kevin Garnett, or Kobe Bryant, or Pau Gasol or 2000 FA or 2010 FA. I'm getting sleepy just thinking about the Bulls post-98. This is a terrible organization that lucked into the lotto one year and is too incompetent to take advantage. #butweplayhard

[ZoomSlowik]

Or LaMarcus Aldridge, or Kevin Garnett, or Kobe Bryant, or Pau Gasol or 2000 FA or 2010 FA. I'm getting sleepy just thinking about the Bulls post-98. This is a terrible organization that lucked into the lotto one year and is too incompetent to take advantage. #butweplayhard

 

Or people can actually discuss the merits of the player/deal in question instead of just b****ing that they're not making moves. If all we want is moves, why don't we make Kenny Williams the GM?

 

It's not like they're the Bobcats, they're highly competitive. A smart organization always tries to get better, but they also don't jump on the first deal that comes along just because it's there. It's not like we're talking about Durant or Harden. You have to be at least a little careful, otherwise you can end up like the Cavs or Magic.

Edited July 10, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Jordan4life_2007]

Or people can actually discuss the merits of the player/deal in question instead of just b****ing that they're not making moves. If all we want is moves, why don't we make Kenny Williams the GM?

 

It's not like they're the Bobcats, they're highly competitive. A smart organization always tries to get better, but they also don't jump on the first deal that comes along just because it's there. It's not like we're talking about Durant or Harden.

 

Making moves to make moves? The only moves this team has made in the last 10 years is trading for Jalen Rose and signing a broken down Ben Wallace and inept Carlos Boozer. The Mike Fratello Cavs were highly competitive. Who cares. And we couldn't get Durant or Harden even if they were available (well, Harden actually was).

[Steve9347]

When the idea of Ellis came up days ago, I summarized how awful he is. Why are you kids being silly?