NBA Thread 2013-2014

[southsider2k5]

Does anybody think Rose can come back as a better player and stay healthy? I wonder what the FO thinks. Because if they do they should do everything in their power to upgrade Boozer and back up Jo. Title. BAM

 

If not then shiiiiiiiiiit, I dunno.

 

Better? No way. As good as before? I hope so.

[Balta1701]

Better? No way. As good as before? I hope so.

It's still plausible for him to get better. There was plenty of room for him to improve his outside shooting game and to become a more efficient scorer if he could take advantage of defenses collapsing on him.

 

To do that though he'd have to physically come back where he was and be able to force defenses to resume collapsing on him.

[Jake]

I think the area he could have had the most improvement is running the offense. When teams go balls out to stop Derrick, he never had an answer. This is why you would often see us go on scoring runs against teams like Heat with Derrick out of the game. Without Derrick, we run an offense that is something other than "stand around and see what Derrick does"

[bmags]

When the Bulls amnesty him I imagine he'll get about the MLE.

 

That sounds about right. I think he will be a great pickup for whoever gets him. Criminally over-criticized among Bulls fanbase.

[Balta1701]

That sounds about right. I think he will be a great pickup for whoever gets him. Criminally over-criticized among Bulls fanbase.

I think he's appropriately criticized. There are people who will defend him, he's a solid player, but he's been worth maybe 1/2 the amount he's being paid, him being banged up really did hurt the Bulls in 2011, and his contract really has been a major impediment to making the Bulls better.

[Jenksismyhero]

That sounds about right. I think he will be a great pickup for whoever gets him. Criminally over-criticized among Bulls fanbase.

 

What are you talking about? The criticism is 100% valid. He posts good numbers again bad teams and then wets the bed against good teams. He's routinely taken out in the 4th quarter because his defense is subpar (how can you justify paying the guy for playing 3/4's of a game?). If he can't hit his stupid rainbow shot he's a waste of space on the floor and that's far too often for a guy making 13-14 million a year.

 

Edit: oh, and the screaming. GET DAT JO! AHHHHHHH! AND ONE!!!!!!

 

And what's sad is everyone said this before he was signed. David Lee would have been the better FA pick-up by far.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[ZoomSlowik]

That sounds about right. I think he will be a great pickup for whoever gets him. Criminally over-criticized among Bulls fanbase.

 

I would say it's pretty warranted. The Bulls have been significantly better with him off the floor the last two years, they were -8.6 and -8.7 per 100 possessions with him out there. To put that in perspective, the Thunder were 7.8 points better per 100 with Durant on the floor this year. Now a lot of that is because Taj is an awesome defender off the bench and Boozer is a horrible defender, but that's still a staggering number.

 

If he were a $5 million big off the bench, things would be different. However, his offense the last two years hasn't been nearly good enough to compensate for his defensive issues. That's why I'm not too worried about the Bulls tossing a Mirotic/Gibson duo out there. Relative to what they have now, that could be a more effective offense/defense platoon if Mirotic offers anything as a floor spacer.

Edited July 10, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[southsider2k5]

People need to take a look at what big men in the NBA make. Boozer really isn't overpaid when compared to his peers. It sucks for salary cap purposes, but it is the reality of the league today.

[bmags]

1) He posts good numbers again bad teams and then wets the bed against good teams.

2) He's routinely taken out in the 4th quarter because his defense is subpar (how can you justify paying the guy for playing 3/4's of a game?).

3) If he can't hit his stupid rainbow shot he's a waste of space on the floor and that's far too often for a guy making 13-14 million a year.

 

1) This really isn't the case. He averaged 16-10 in 2012 regular season. Postseason? 16-10.

2) Every player plays less than 48 minutes, and Noah was routinely pulled in crunchtime in 2011.

3) This is the crap I'm talking about. He really improved this year and has worked pretty well with Noah offensively, something that has gotten better every year. This criticism largely comes from year 1 where he wasn't really worked correctly into the offense.

[Jake]

I'm curious what the difference is between the Booz that played with Deron Williams and the Booz that plays with Rose. Couldn't be the point guard....could it?

[Jordan4life_2007]

1) This really isn't the case. He averaged 16-10 in 2012 regular season. Postseason? 16-10.

2) Every player plays less than 48 minutes, and Noah was routinely pulled in crunchtime in 2011.

3) This is the crap I'm talking about. He really improved this year and has worked pretty well with Noah offensively, something that has gotten better every year. This criticism largely comes from year 1 where he wasn't really worked correctly into the offense.

 

Yeah, ask Jazz fans about his play against the Lakers in the playoffs from '08 to '10. Hint: it's not pretty. And let's not forget about Boozer's 1/11 in game 6 against philly in '12. He's just not that good.

[bmags]

I think he's appropriately criticized. There are people who will defend him, he's a solid player, but he's been worth maybe 1/2 the amount he's being paid, him being banged up really did hurt the Bulls in 2011, and his contract really has been a major impediment to making the Bulls better.

 

This is why you don't make your big front office plans to sign players in their prime in FA. And that really doesn't have much to do with Boozer. Beside 2011, he's been pretty healthy, and no one can say they didn't expect injuries from him when we signed him.

[Jake]

[ZoomSlowik]

People need to take a look at what big men in the NBA make. Boozer really isn't overpaid when compared to his peers. It sucks for salary cap purposes, but it is the reality of the league today.

 

Josh Smith just got $13.5 million a year and he's a fair amount better than Boozer. David West is a little better and just signed for $12 mil a year. Al Jefferson is probably a little better and he got $13.67 mil for 3 (and the Bobcats overpaid a bit). Paul Millsap is at worst a comparable player and he just got $9.5 million a year for two years. That's the most recent sampling of "market value" under the current CBA. Boozer's deal is bigger than all of them.

 

He's not an athletic 7-footer that can defend, so comparing him to those guys doesn't make sense. Those are the guys that get crazy contracts.

[Jenksismyhero]

1) This really isn't the case. He averaged 16-10 in 2012 regular season. Postseason? 16-10.

2) Every player plays less than 48 minutes, and Noah was routinely pulled in crunchtime in 2011.

3) This is the crap I'm talking about. He really improved this year and has worked pretty well with Noah offensively, something that has gotten better every year. This criticism largely comes from year 1 where he wasn't really worked correctly into the offense.

 

 

1) Look at his averages against teams like Miami, OKC and Indiana versus Cleveland, Phoenix, Milwaukee, etc.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/spli...3/carlos-boozer

 

Against Miami especially he either has a good game or a game in which he fails to show up. I guess I expect more out of a 13 million a year player on a team playing without its MVP.

 

2) Yes, Rose has also been benched, but not for long periods of time like Boozer. Sorry, when you get replaced by a guy making 4 million a year less than you in crunch time, the criticism that you're overpaid for the value you bring is justified.

 

3) It's debatable if he's improved or if the absence of Rose helped his numbers this year. He plays terrible with Rose so I'm interested to see how it works next season.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Hmmm, I wonder if the Bulls FO scouted the 2011 Portsmouth Invitational Tourney.

 

The All PIT team that year was Jimmy Butler, Malcolm Thomas, Matthew Bryan-Amaning, Andrew Goudelock, and Vernon Macklin....Thomas, Bryan-Amaning, and Goudelock are all on the Bulls Summer League roster.

 

This for whatever reason amused me. Perhaps because I found that out myself.

 

Goudelock is the most intriguing player of the bunch. He was the D-League MVP and has redirkulous range. Last year I had a man crush on Henry Sims and wanted him to make the roster, this year I'm pulling for Goudelock. I feel he can potentially play the Nate Robinson role off the bench.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bmags]

1) Look at his averages against teams like Miami, OKC and Indiana versus Cleveland, Phoenix, Milwaukee, etc.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/spli...3/carlos-boozer

 

Against Miami especially he either has a good game or a game in which he fails to show up. I guess I expect more out of a 13 million a year player on a team playing without its MVP.

 

2) Yes, Rose has also been benched, but not for long periods of time like Boozer. Sorry, when you get replaced by a guy making 4 million a year less than you in crunch time, the criticism that you're overpaid for the value you bring is justified.

 

3) It's debatable if he's improved or if the absence of Rose helped his numbers this year. He plays terrible with Rose so I'm interested to see how it works next season.

 

1) Weird, that almost makes him like every other player vs. Miami and teams with good defenses.

2) Noah was the example.

3) I really doubt that was a big factor considering his career numbers and, you know, actually watching him play.

[bmags]

Hmmm, I wonder if the Bulls FO scouted the 2011 Portsmouth Invitational Tourney.

 

The All PIT team that year was Jimmy Butler, Malcolm Thomas, Matthew Bryan-Amaning, Andrew Goudelock, and Vernon Macklin....Thomas, Bryan-Amaning, and Goudelock are all on the Bulls Summer League roster.

 

This for whatever reason amused me. Perhaps because I found that out myself.

 

Goudelock is the most intriguing player of the bunch. He was the D-League MVP and has redirkulous range. Last year I had a man crush on Henry Sims and wanted him to make the roster, this year I'm pulling for Goudelock. I feel he can potentially play the Nate Robinson role off the bench.

 

I really doubt he'd have a role much different than Malcolm thomas if he makes the team.

[bmags]

Josh Smith just got $13.5 million a year and he's a fair amount better than Boozer. David West is a little better and just signed for $12 mil a year. Al Jefferson is probably a little better and he got $13.67 mil for 3 (and the Bobcats overpaid a bit). Paul Millsap is at worst a comparable player and he just got $9.5 million a year for two years. That's the most recent sampling of "market value" under the current CBA. Boozer's deal is bigger than all of them.

 

He's not an athletic 7-footer that can defend, so comparing him to those guys doesn't make sense. Those are the guys that get crazy contracts.

 

Boozer was signed in the previous cba in a FA year that saw Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson get the max.

[ZoomSlowik]

Boozer was signed in the previous cba in a FA year that saw Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson get the max.

 

That was basically the point I was trying to make. With 1:1 luxury tax penalties and higher max salaries, $15 million for Boozer was steep but in the realm of decency (I hated it personally). Under the current market conditions, which is the main issue in this case, that's a fair amount more than he's worth. Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay didn't exactly bring in a king's ransom in trade, neither would Boozer.

[Jenksismyhero]

1) Weird, that almost makes him like every other player vs. Miami and teams with good defenses.

2) Noah was the example.

3) I really doubt that was a big factor considering his career numbers and, you know, actually watching him play.

 

1) Except star players who are paid like Boozer. They bring it no matter the opponent.

 

2) Right, and i'm saying Rose was also benched. But those were messages being sent by the coach, not "well you can't play in the 4th because you're a weakness on our team."

 

3) Unless i'm reading it wrong, it looks to me like his numbers are better with Watson (in 2010) and Lucas (in 2011) than with Rose (worse with Watson in 2011). And I think that makes sense given the shoot-first Rose versus pass-first Watson/Lucas.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

That was basically the point I was trying to make. With 1:1 luxury tax penalties and higher max salaries, $15 million for Boozer was steep but in the realm of decency (I hated it personally). Under the current market conditions, which is the main issue in this case, that's a fair amount more than he's worth. Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay didn't exactly bring in a king's ransom in trade, neither would Boozer.

 

I'm not saying I love Boozer with his deal, moreso talking about the critique on message boards and with fans watching the game of Boozer being the worst player ever and completely worthless. The bulls overpaid to get his services in 2010 because they needed scoring and more rebounding inside. The biggest worry was he would barely play because of health, he's played and has been healthy. If I would have told you in 2010 that Boozer would average about 16-10 for next 3 years and play 80% of games I'm guessing most would be pretty pleased.

 

I get that it was annoying in 2011 when he would just iso and shoot a fadeaway, but at some point people have to let it go.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm not saying I love Boozer with his deal, moreso talking about the critique on message boards and with fans watching the game of Boozer being the worst player ever and completely worthless. The bulls overpaid to get his services in 2010 because they needed scoring and more rebounding inside. The biggest worry was he would barely play because of health, he's played and has been healthy. If I would have told you in 2010 that Boozer would average about 16-10 for next 3 years and play 80% of games I'm guessing most would be pretty pleased.

 

I get that it was annoying in 2011 when he would just iso and shoot a fadeaway, but at some point people have to let it go.

 

Why would people let it go? He's still on the roster. He's messing up their financial flexibility in epic fashion and not giving them the #2 scorer and solid interior presence that people wanted. He only gave them 16 a game even with Rose out and he's likely starting to decline.

[bmags]

Why would people let it go? He's still on the roster. He's messing up their financial flexibility in epic fashion and not giving them the #2 scorer and solid interior presence that people wanted. He only gave them 16 a game even with Rose out and he's likely starting to decline.

 

The front office messed up the financial flexibility of this team. Getting mad at Boozer for coming here and...playing pretty much how we expected isn't the best source of anger (but clearly placing any criticism at the feet of the front office is misplaced, because...)

 

I don't understand this "while Rose was out". You'd think with Rose out there'd have been huge offensive stat improvements in Deng, Noah and Boozer right? Wellp. Those points were pretty much distributed among the guards or just not scored.

[Jake]

It's pretty clear that in most instances, Rose hasn't been able to bring out the best in his supporting cast. This doesn't mean Derrick sucks, but this isn't a situation like a prime Steve Nash where guys that suck kept having career years because the PG ran the show so well.