NBA Thread 2013-2014

[ZoomSlowik]

Get outta here. The Bulls fanbase has become almost as boring as the front office. 1 conference final in 15 years. Stop with your excuses. Anytime a player comes up "Can he play for Thibs?" "Can he shoot?" "Can he play defense?" - Boston, LA, Miami make s*** happen even when it's not supposed to. Steve already covered that. The Miami Heat are the premier organization in basketball. You think Riley and Mickey whatever his name is are gonna sit around and wait for Wade's knees to give out? I guarantee you they're already planning/scheming. They've got the second best player of all-time and they're not going to waste his talent. The Bulls? Noah is untouchable. Deng is untouchable. We don't want to trade Taj. I've never seen a franchise more obsessed with roleplayers in my life. The Bobcats pick. Nitroli or whatever his name is, can't trade him, he's the next dirk. This is how a wannbe franchise operates.

 

The Lakers were great under Jerry Buss. So far they're a complete clusterf*** under his son. They're basically screwed if they don't hit a homerun in free agency in 2014. LOL at Boston. They're tanking hard this year and in the 19 years between Bird's last Finals appearance and the KG/Allen trades they only won 2 more playoffs series than the Bulls have in the last 3 years.

 

The Miami Heat did the exact same thing the Bulls and a bunch of other teams did with 2010 free agency: clear a bunch of cap space and hope. The only difference is that they actually got them. If Lebron had decided he wanted to stay put or go to New York or god forbid come to the Bulls, the Heat would be in the exact same place the Bulls are. That's not brilliant management, that's good fortune.

 

How can you "guarantee" anything with the Heat? They literally have three assets on that entire team. They can't trade any draft picks until 2019 because of the Steipen rule. Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole aren't getting you s***. Lebron might not even be there in 2015, and they're completely f***ed if that happens.

 

 

[Steve9347]

Joseph Slowik, unpaid Chicago Bulls representative since 2007.

[ZoomSlowik]

When was the last time you were IN the United Center? It's like going back in time.

 

Last year. When was the last time you were in MSG, Staples or American Airlines Arena? I honestly can't say I have been, but unless they were built by futuristic space aliens, I kinda doubt they're significantly better.

[ZoomSlowik]

Joseph Slowik, unpaid Chicago Bulls representative since 2007.

 

Good god, it's not like they're the god damn White Sox. You guys make it sound like they're the Atlanta Hawks.

[illinilaw08]

Well golly gee. 50-50 to get to the conference finals? Yayyyyy!!! What was I thinking? #strivetobethe90sknicks

 

Didn't the '94 Knicks make the Finals in Jordan's first year of retirement? If the current version of the Bulls is similar to the Knicks, then it means their route to the Finals is blocked by the most dominant player in the league. Not sure how you get beyond that...

 

Would you rather have the Bulls roster this year or the Nets? In cap hell, with no real assets going forward, and maybe a 2 year window to win?

 

I'm not real happy about the idea of extending Deng, but I don't really understand all the hand wringing about this offseason.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Lakers were great under Jerry Buss. So far they're a complete clusterf*** under his son. They're basically screwed if they don't hit a homerun in free agency in 2014. LOL at Boston. They're tanking hard this year and in the 19 years between Bird's last Finals appearance and the KG/Allen trades they only won 2 more playoffs series than the Bulls have in the last 3 years.

 

The Miami Heat did the exact same thing the Bulls and a bunch of other teams did with 2010 free agency: clear a bunch of cap space and hope. The only difference is that they actually got them. If Lebron had decided he wanted to stay put or go to New York or god forbid come to the Bulls, the Heat would be in the exact same place the Bulls are. That's not brilliant management, that's good fortune.

 

How can you "guarantee" anything with the Heat? They literally have three assets on that entire team. They can't trade any draft picks until 2019 because of the Steipen rule. Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole aren't getting you s***. Lebron might not even be there in 2015, and they're completely f***ed if that happens.

 

Ha. And if not for 1.7 in 2008 the Bulls would be the Detroit Pistons. They got the gift of gifts and can't do nothing with it. We strike out in FA and then throw $75 million at Boozer. Now they're going to extend Deng, who's 28 but more like 32 when you consider the wear/tear. And then in 2 years you and Balta will be making excuses about how the Bulls can't add X player because we're over the cap. STOP SIGNING THESE ROLEPLAYERS TO RIDICULOUS CONTRACTS. Let somebody else be stupid.

[RockRaines]

When was the last time you were IN the United Center? It's like going back in time.

The locker room and players facilities? Becauses thats all players care about, they dont care about the fans seats. They are also building a state of the art practice and training facility right in the city so players have the option of actually living downtown.

[Balta1701]

Didn't the '94 Knicks make the Finals in Jordan's first year of retirement? If the current version of the Bulls is similar to the Knicks, then it means their route to the Finals is blocked by the most dominant player in the league. Not sure how you get beyond that...

And there's the real problem.

 

As people keep noting, even if the Bulls teamed up Rose with another star, with Durant or something ridiculous like that, the Heat still go into that series as the favorites. Everyone here knows it. You swap Deng for Durant 1 on 1 right now and the Heat still are the favorites. You swap Boozer for Love and the Heat still come in as favorites. About the only guy in the league who could have made the Bulls favorites alongside Rose is a healthy Dwight Howard and that guy hasn't been seen in several years.

 

So what do you do if every move you could make is still unlikely to leave you as the favorites? I still think you have 2 options...you stay competitive, win 55-60 games, and take a shot at it...or you just give up, dismantle the team, and get yourself under the luxury tax every year.

 

May as well win the games and put out an enjoyable product.

[ZoomSlowik]

Yet there is only one franchise that can say with certainty that they are in a better position to win than Chicago. f***ing wannabes

 

Depends on how you define "with certainty". Considering that the Bulls' status rests almost entirely on Rose's ACL, there is some gray area there. I think he'll be fine given he's been out so long, but I try not to make assumptions with injuries.

 

You can make a strong case that OKC and San Antonio are in a better position. Some would argue Houston and the Clippers too, though I personally need to see them in action with their new guys before I make that claim. Those teams are kinda moot anyways since the Bulls have to go through Miami to get there.

 

Some might argue Indiana, Memphis, Brooklyn or Golden State, I don't see that personally.

Edited July 11, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[ZoomSlowik]

Ha. And if not for 1.7 in 2008 the Bulls would be the Detroit Pistons. They got the gift of gifts and can't do nothing with it. We strike out in FA and then throw $75 million at Boozer. Now they're going to extend Deng, who's 28 but more like 32 when you consider the wear/tear. And then in 2 years you and Balta will be making excuses about how the Bulls can't add X player because we're over the cap. STOP SIGNING THESE ROLEPLAYERS TO RIDICULOUS CONTRACTS. Let somebody else be stupid.

 

The Bulls have done as much or more with their pick than any team that picked #1 since Tim Duncan, and that's with Rose missing an entire year and another playoffs. The only one that's even debateable is Cleveland, and they have a few extra seasons before Rose can potentially leave like Lebron did.

 

If you don't sign "role players", Rose leaves for greener pastures at the end of his contract. I put that in quotes because that's an overly general term. Noah and Deng are a bit more than your generic "role players" and Boozer used to be.

 

You'd rather have flexibility than not, but cap space is no guarantee of anything. You can just as easily end up with Amare Stoudemire, Rudy Gay, Joe Johnson or Carlos Boozer. It's not like anyone goes into free agency planning to sign Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon with their cap space. Lebron can't play for 5 teams.

Edited July 11, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[witesoxfan]

And there's the real problem.

 

As people keep noting, even if the Bulls teamed up Rose with another star, with Durant or something ridiculous like that, the Heat still go into that series as the favorites. Everyone here knows it. You swap Deng for Durant 1 on 1 right now and the Heat still are the favorites. You swap Boozer for Love and the Heat still come in as favorites. About the only guy in the league who could have made the Bulls favorites alongside Rose is a healthy Dwight Howard and that guy hasn't been seen in several years.

 

So what do you do if every move you could make is still unlikely to leave you as the favorites? I still think you have 2 options...you stay competitive, win 55-60 games, and take a shot at it...or you just give up, dismantle the team, and get yourself under the luxury tax every year.

 

May as well win the games and put out an enjoyable product.

 

I think there was a 3rd option before they went to the Nets, and that was trading for Garnett and Pierce. They're older and worn down - Garnett has like maybe 2 good years left as a starter and 3-4 overall and Pierce probably has 2-3 - but they could have made that work with Boozer and Deng while still bringing Jason Terry over too. You have a team that spreads the floor, a legit 2nd option in Pierce, a decent 3rd in Garnett, Noah down low, with Butler or Terry playing the 2.

 

Spitballing here with what I remember from the contracts, but comparing what they could have given up, the Bulls basically would have given up Boozer, Deng, one of Butler and Mirotic, some last guy off the bench, and 3 1st rounders. Yes, it's a lot for older players, but that would have put the Bulls as a legitimate contender to win it all this year, and the problem is that, come about 2016 or 2017, you are in some sort of rebuilding mode unless you can strike lightning.

 

I'm not saying that was the best route either - it was a possibility but obviously fell through - but it was an option.

[Balta1701]

I think there was a 3rd option before they went to the Nets, and that was trading for Garnett and Pierce. They're older and worn down - Garnett has like maybe 2 good years left as a starter and 3-4 overall and Pierce probably has 2-3 - but they could have made that work with Boozer and Deng while still bringing Jason Terry over too. You have a team that spreads the floor, a legit 2nd option in Pierce, a decent 3rd in Garnett, Noah down low, with Butler or Terry playing the 2.

 

Spitballing here with what I remember from the contracts, but comparing what they could have given up, the Bulls basically would have given up Boozer, Deng, one of Butler and Mirotic, some last guy off the bench, and 3 1st rounders. Yes, it's a lot for older players, but that would have put the Bulls as a legitimate contender to win it all this year, and the problem is that, come about 2016 or 2017, you are in some sort of rebuilding mode unless you can strike lightning.

 

I'm not saying that was the best route either - it was a possibility but obviously fell through - but it was an option.

Same basic deal. If the Bulls traded Boozer and Deng for Garnett, Pierce, and Terry (and sacrificed the pick/mirotic), does anyone honestly think they go into a playoff series with the Heat as obvious favorites? Even if they have home court advantage?

 

I don't at all.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Same basic deal. If the Bulls traded Boozer and Deng for Garnett, Pierce, and Terry (and sacrificed the pick/mirotic), does anyone honestly think they go into a playoff series with the Heat as obvious favorites? Even if they have home court advantage?

 

I don't at all.

 

What is it with this "favorites" stuff? Who gives a s*** that the Heat would be favored. What are you doing to put yourself in better position to beat the Heat is what's it about. The Bulls, as is, or as they have been under Thibs, cannot beat the Heat. Rose being hurt is irrelevant. Asking Rose to take this cast and beat LeBron/Wade/Bosh is as silly as asking Patrick Ewing to beat Michael/Scottie with John Starks and Charles Smith. We got stars changing teams every 15 minutes. Teams making moves to get better every 15 minutes. And yet the Bulls, who only sport one star, are over the cap and/or just too scared/timid to make a move.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Jordan4life

[ZoomSlowik]

I think there was a 3rd option before they went to the Nets, and that was trading for Garnett and Pierce. They're older and worn down - Garnett has like maybe 2 good years left as a starter and 3-4 overall and Pierce probably has 2-3 - but they could have made that work with Boozer and Deng while still bringing Jason Terry over too. You have a team that spreads the floor, a legit 2nd option in Pierce, a decent 3rd in Garnett, Noah down low, with Butler or Terry playing the 2.

 

Spitballing here with what I remember from the contracts, but comparing what they could have given up, the Bulls basically would have given up Boozer, Deng, one of Butler and Mirotic, some last guy off the bench, and 3 1st rounders. Yes, it's a lot for older players, but that would have put the Bulls as a legitimate contender to win it all this year, and the problem is that, come about 2016 or 2017, you are in some sort of rebuilding mode unless you can strike lightning.

 

I'm not saying that was the best route either - it was a possibility but obviously fell through - but it was an option.

 

I think that's really going to come back to bite Brooklyn in the ass. If they don't win a title this year (which is pretty unlikely unless they find a time machine and play the series in 2006), they're going to star to decay until they're a 35-win team. They're going to have some massive luxury tax bills while doing that and Boston will get at least one high pick out of this after KG, Pierce and Iso Joe are toast. They'll have to depend on salary dumps with no picks to use as sweeteners, that will probably end poorly.

 

Boston should get at least one pretty high pick out of it, and possibly 2 or 3. I'm pretty sure they get their 2016 and 2018 unprotected firsts as well as the right to swap picks in 2017.

[Balta1701]

What is it with this "favorites" stuff? Who gives a s*** that the Heat would be favored. What are you doing to put yourself in better position to beat the Heat is what's it about. The Bulls, as is, or as they have been under Thibs, cannot beat the Heat. Rose being hurt is irrelevant. Asking Rose to take this cast and beat LeBron/Wade/Bosh is as silly as asking Patrick Ewing to beat Michael/Scottie with John Starks and Charles Smith. We got stars changing teams every 15 minutes. Teams making moves to get better every 15 minutes. And yet the Bulls, who only sport one star, are over the cap and/or just too timid to make a move.

That's the exact same bloody question. You just admitted that it's not reasonable to expect the Bulls to beat the heat given any move they could make and it would be a major upset if they did so, but they should be making moves because you say so!

 

Every single line of logic winds up saying "Trade off everyone, tank, and either hope for Lebron signing there or hitting the next Lebron in the draft 5 years from now".

[Jordan4life_2007]

That's the exact same bloody question. You just admitted that it's not reasonable to expect the Bulls to beat the heat given any move they could make and it would be a major upset if they did so, but they should be making moves because you say so!

 

Every single line of logic winds up saying "Trade off everyone, tank, and either hope for Lebron signing there or hitting the next Lebron in the draft 5 years from now".

 

You guys need to make up your minds. Haven't you and everybody else just about put an asterisk next to the Heat's title because they needed two game 7's to win it? You obviously think they can be beat. Deng for Durant doesn't make the Bulls the favorite? What!!!! Let vegas worried about the favorites and odds and whatever.

[ZoomSlowik]

What is it with this "favorites" stuff? Who gives a s*** that the Heat would be favored. What are you doing to put yourself in better position to beat the Heat is what's it about. The Bulls, as is, or as they have been under Thibs, cannot beat the Heat. Rose being hurt is irrelevant. Asking Rose to take this cast and beat LeBron/Wade/Bosh is as silly as asking Patrick Ewing to beat Michael/Scottie with John Starks and Charles Smith. We got stars changing teams every 15 minutes. Teams making moves to get better every 15 minutes. And yet the Bulls, who only sport one star, are over the cap and/or just too scared/timid to make a move.

 

This coming year, it's unlikely they win, though Indiana and San Antonio damn near did it. In the future, with Wade piling up miles and injuries, Bosh becoming more of a wuss and Boozer's awful ass off the roster, the odds start going up even with no moves. Plus we don't even know where Lebron is going to be playing after next year...

[Balta1701]

This coming year, it's unlikely they win, though Indiana and San Antonio damn near did it. In the future, with Wade piling up miles and injuries, Bosh becoming more of a wuss and Boozer's awful ass off the roster, the odds start going up even with no moves. Plus we don't even know where Lebron is going to be playing after next year...

And if that's the case, it makes a ton of sense to stay competitive this year and see what you can do while holding chips that you can cash in for 2014 and the year or two after.

 

Mirotic, of course, being the chip I'm really interested to see.

[Steve9347]

The locker room and players facilities? Becauses thats all players care about, they dont care about the fans seats. They are also building a state of the art practice and training facility right in the city so players have the option of actually living downtown.

Been in them. It's like going back in time.

[ZoomSlowik]

You guys need to make up your minds. Haven't you and everybody else just about put an asterisk next to the Heat's title because they needed two game 7's to win it? You obviously think they can be beat. Deng for Durant doesn't make the Bulls the favorite? What!!!! Let vegas worried about the favorites and odds and whatever.

 

You're missing the point. Even if you turn off the "fair trade button" like it's a video game, there isn't any one guy you can get that would make them any more than a push with the Heat (though I would happily take my chances with a theoretical Rose/Butler/Durant/Gibson/Noah lineup with Boozer off the bench). When you talk about realistic deals and take guys like Durant off the table, it's really, really hard to find a match that's both possible and will make a major difference on the quality of the team. Kevin Love is about the only option that comes to mind right now, and I don't think the T-Wolves are ready to move him yet.

Edited July 11, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Steve9347]

You're missing the point. Even if you turn off the "fair trade button" like it's a video game, there isn't any one guy you can get that would make them any more than a push with the Heat (though I would happily take my chances with a theoretical Rose/Butler/Durant/Gibson/Noah lineup with Boozer off the bench). When you talk about realistic deals and take guys like Durant off the table, it's really, really hard to find a match that's both possible and will make a major difference on the quality of the team. Kevin Love is about the only option that comes to mind right now, and I don't think the T-Wolves are ready to move him yet.

You're overlooking the obvious. Trade Deng for LeBron and BOOM favorites over the Heat.

 

Duh.

[ZoomSlowik]

You're overlooking the obvious. Trade Deng for LeBron and BOOM favorites over the Heat.

 

Duh.

 

Well, I'm assuming things like putting a hit out on Lebron are off the table.

[Kyyle23]

I think J4L was a big 90s Knicks fan

[witesoxfan]

Same basic deal. If the Bulls traded Boozer and Deng for Garnett, Pierce, and Terry (and sacrificed the pick/mirotic), does anyone honestly think they go into a playoff series with the Heat as obvious favorites? Even if they have home court advantage?

 

I don't at all.

 

You don't have to be the favorite, you just have to win. Dallas was a heavy underdog 2 years ago and they came out just fine. If you get away with giving up Mirotic over Butler, your starting 5 is Noah-Garnett-Pierce-Butler-Rose, with Terry and Gibson off the bench, and you might still have room to either bring back Belinelli or still sign Dunleavy. That gives the Bulls a far, far better chance aganist the Heat with the length, interior defense, and overall more versatile offensive attack.

 

Really, I'd say that series would be a 50-50 tossup. But then you run into...

 

I think that's really going to come back to bite Brooklyn in the ass. If they don't win a title this year (which is pretty unlikely unless they find a time machine and play the series in 2006), they're going to star to decay until they're a 35-win team. They're going to have some massive luxury tax bills while doing that and Boston will get at least one high pick out of this after KG, Pierce and Iso Joe are toast. They'll have to depend on salary dumps with no picks to use as sweeteners, that will probably end poorly.

 

Boston should get at least one pretty high pick out of it, and possibly 2 or 3. I'm pretty sure they get their 2016 and 2018 unprotected firsts as well as the right to swap picks in 2017.

 

...this, and this is why I wouldn't have done it.

 

I will just say that, for all the non-excitement that they create, the Spurs seem to be the team the Bulls are modeling themselves after. What they need to do is, rather than extending late 20s picks that you've developed who will come off the bench for 2-3 years before finally getting a chance to start, trade it for an asset that you need and value highly and plug it into your lineup. Imagining the Spurs right now with Kawhi Leonard is silly, and they got it because they traded a former 26th pick for him.

 

The Bulls need to find creativity like that. Perhaps that player is Butler in a year or two. Perhaps it's Teague, maybe they can get something out of Gibson still. Maybe they don't.

[ZoomSlowik]

Ha, awesome. Kobe says he'll go for the dollar signs in 2014.

 

So the Lakers are pretty much going to have to waive his Bird rights to get any cap space, otherwise his cap hold is comfortably north of $30 million.