NBA Thread 2013-2014

[Jordan4life_2007]

Means nothing? To you, yes, because you take evidence with a grain of salt and rely on what you think is right. I'll stick to my video evidence and you can stick to a quote

And it's not like I'm calling Lebron a bad defender or something. I'm just saying that people thinking he shut down Rose by himself are way, way off.

 

A quote by the player in question himself? Did LeBron pay Derrick to say it's difficult when a 6'8 guy can easily guard you?

Edited July 12, 2013 by Jordan4life

[Boogua]

A quote by the player in question himself? Did LeBron pay Derrick to say it's difficult when a 6'8 guy can easily guard you?

Could it just have been lip service? Maybe trying to get the Heat to play true and let Lebron play Derrick 1 on 1? The video evidence CLEARLY shows Lebron can't easily guard him. He got by him numerous times and got his shot blocked numerous times, and by who? Not Lebron. Hence the collapsing defense. You really can't admit that Lebron had a ton of help defense behind him that collapsed every time Rose got by him? Seriously?

Edited July 12, 2013 by Boogua

[southsider2k5]

No, LeBron's freakish size and athleticism gives Rose a lot of problems. Rose already testified to this. You searching youtube for one or 2 instances in which Rose got by LeBron means nothing. Overall, LeBron is Rose's daddy.

 

I don't agree with J4L often, but this is gospel. Rose was awful anytime LeBron was on him.

[Boogua]

I don't agree with J4L often, but this is gospel. Rose was awful anytime LeBron was on him.

Uh, yeah, because when he got by him the Heat defense collapsed and Rose got his shot blocked. One time he even passed out to Brewer for an open three, but he tried to force things too often.

 

The point is that Lebron didn't guard him 1 on 1. It was a team effort and if the Bulls had better outside shooting they could have taken advantage of it.

 

Would you like me to post the videos for you?

Edited July 12, 2013 by Boogua

[Balta1701]

Uh, yeah, because when he got by him the Heat defense collapsed and Rose got his shot blocked. One time he even passed out to Brewer for an open three, but he tried to force things too often.

 

The point is that Lebron didn't guard him 1 on 1. It was a team effort and if the Bulls had better outside shooting, they could have taken advantage of it.

 

Would you like me to post the videos for you?

When Lebron was put on Rose it did a couple things.

 

Lebron was quick enough to stay with Rose longer than most of the other guys. Doesn't have to be the whole way to the hoop, just for an extra step or two.

 

Lebron's size also mean that Rose was facing up against a ton of size. Rose couldn't move him off of him easily.

 

So, Lebron's size made it so that Rose couldn't overpower him or shoot over him, and since he could stay with him an extra step or so and prevent Rose's usual strength and jumping advantages from turning into a shot, it fed him right into the help defense in the lane.

 

Lebron on Rose set it up for the team to have an easier job shutting him down with the help defense. It didn't shut him down on its own, but when they threw that at him, it took away every scoring option other than "ditch to the outside".

 

No other team has a physical freak like that to throw at Rose, so Rose was used to either being able to blow by defenders before the help got there or overpower defenders with his strength and leaping. The physical specimens the Heat had on their roster, Lebron in particular, were key to disrupting what worked for the rest of the year for him.

[Boogua]

When Lebron was put on Rose it did a couple things.

 

Lebron was quick enough to stay with Rose longer than most of the other guys. Doesn't have to be the whole way to the hoop, just for an extra step or two.

 

Lebron's size also mean that Rose was facing up against a ton of size. Rose couldn't move him off of him easily.

 

So, Lebron's size made it so that Rose couldn't overpower him or shoot over him, and since he could stay with him an extra step or so and prevent Rose's usual strength and jumping advantages from turning into a shot, it fed him right into the help defense in the lane.

 

Lebron on Rose set it up for the team to have an easier job shutting him down with the help defense. It didn't shut him down on its own, but when they threw that at him, it took away every scoring option other than "ditch to the outside".

 

No other team has a physical freak like that to throw at Rose, so Rose was used to either being able to blow by defenders before the help got there or overpower defenders with his strength and leaping. The physical specimens the Heat had on their roster, Lebron in particular, were key to disrupting what worked for the rest of the year for him.

I can agree with that, but I'd like to add that Rose wasn't all that confident in his jumpshot in that series, nor was it falling at a great rate, so Lebron was the perfect defender. Think of when Diaw was guarding Lebron in this past finals and no, I'm not saying Diaw is the defender that Lebron is, but Lebron was able to give space which also helped him stay with Rose longer just as it helped Diaw against Lebron.

 

If Rose was hitting his jumpshot it would have been a lot more interesting because Lebron would have had to pick something (like he had to against Jason Terry the next round).

[Balta1701]

If Rose was hitting his jumpshot it would have been a lot more interesting because Lebron would have had to pick something (like he had to against Jason Terry the next round).

I still think the real trick was spacing. The Heat had zero respect for the Bulls ability to score if Rose couldn't get to the basket. That's why I liked the Hamilton signing so much, I thought having a guy who could hit a mid-range jumper was exactly the solution to what the Heat threw at them. D'Oh.

 

If the combination of Butler, Deng, Dunleavy, and maybe Snell/Hinrich can be more effective on jump shots from mid-range and 3 than Korver, Brewer, and Bogans were, then that's a whole different series...not just for those guys, but for Rose as well because it takes away the collapse. That was the one mismatch the Heat gave to the Bulls and the Bulls could not exploit it. If the Bulls could have exploited it, then the Heat can't give it to them, and they open up the floor.

[Chisoxfn]

But you see, Melo wouldn't make us the favorite. 2000 Shaq? That makes us the favorite. If anything, LeBron can only cover one of Rose/Melo. Because he owns both.

One thing I have issue with this Rose stuff, is LBJ shut down a Derrick Rose who was hobbled on one ankle. If Rose is 100%, I don't know if that happens or it is as obvious as Rose was faster then Lebron and might have been able to better handle the length of LBJ on two feet. Then again, now he's on a repaired ACL so who knows. If you could swap Melo and Deng and have Butler play the 2 guard, sign me up. That makes the Bulls significantly better.

[Steve9347]

One thing I have issue with this Rose stuff, is LBJ shut down a Derrick Rose who was hobbled on one ankle. If Rose is 100%, I don't know if that happens or it is as obvious as Rose was faster then Lebron and might have been able to better handle the length of LBJ on two feet. Then again, now he's on a repaired ACL so who knows. If you could swap Melo and Deng and have Butler play the 2 guard, sign me up. That makes the Bulls significantly better.

Why are people talking about swapping Melo for Deng? What a waste of time.

[Chisoxfn]

Why are people talking about swapping Melo for Deng? What a waste of time.

I didn't say that is what you would trade for Melo? I assume if you were getting Melo, it is because the BUlls have cleared cap space somehow/someway which means Deng is no longer on the squad (and Boozer has been amnestied). Taj might be gone too.

 

Melo would be going into the lineup for Deng.

[Jenksismyhero]

I still think the real trick was spacing. The Heat had zero respect for the Bulls ability to score if Rose couldn't get to the basket. That's why I liked the Hamilton signing so much, I thought having a guy who could hit a mid-range jumper was exactly the solution to what the Heat threw at them. D'Oh.

 

If the combination of Butler, Deng, Dunleavy, and maybe Snell/Hinrich can be more effective on jump shots from mid-range and 3 than Korver, Brewer, and Bogans were, then that's a whole different series...not just for those guys, but for Rose as well because it takes away the collapse. That was the one mismatch the Heat gave to the Bulls and the Bulls could not exploit it. If the Bulls could have exploited it, then the Heat can't give it to them, and they open up the floor.

 

This. Parker had his way with Lebron during the Finals because his teammates were not around the paint to help him. Rose had none of that in 2011.

[Steve9347]

I didn't say that is what you would trade for Melo? I assume if you were getting Melo, it is because the BUlls have cleared cap space somehow/someway which means Deng is no longer on the squad (and Boozer has been amnestied). Taj might be gone too.

 

Melo would be going into the lineup for Deng.

Correction.

 

Why are people talking about Melo possibly playing for the Bulls anytime before he's 37?

[ZoomSlowik]

I didn't say that is what you would trade for Melo? I assume if you were getting Melo, it is because the BUlls have cleared cap space somehow/someway which means Deng is no longer on the squad (and Boozer has been amnestied). Taj might be gone too.

 

Melo would be going into the lineup for Deng.

 

It's not really possible to get Melo via free agency. Melo can make sooooooooo much money, his next contract could start at something like $23 million. Even if they let Deng walk, used the amnesty clause on Boozer, dumped Gibson for nothing and didn't add Mirotic, they still might not be able to fit that contract in under the salary cap. I don't see Melo as the type to take a big paycut to play for a contender either.

 

They'd have a better chance with a sign-and-trade, but they'd still have to get New York to agree to take something like Boozer's expiring deal plus Taj. The Knicks still might not do it because they'd rather have cap space. Also, the Bulls would have to stay under the apron after the deal, otherwise they can't do sign and trades.

 

Melo would certainly be a big upgrade over Deng, but the logistics of getting him wouldn't be in the Bulls' favor. It'd actually be easier to get Lebron, his max salary is lower because of the paycut he took to go to Miami. /pipedream.

Edited July 12, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Jake]

I can agree with that, but I'd like to add that Rose wasn't all that confident in his jumpshot in that series, nor was it falling at a great rate, so Lebron was the perfect defender. Think of when Diaw was guarding Lebron in this past finals and no, I'm not saying Diaw is the defender that Lebron is, but Lebron was able to give space which also helped him stay with Rose longer just as it helped Diaw against Lebron.

 

If Rose any Chicago Bull was hitting his jumpshot it would have been a lot more interesting because Lebron would have had to pick something (like he had to against Jason Terry the next round).

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

This. Parker had his way with Lebron during the Finals because his teammates were not around the paint to help him. Rose had none of that in 2011.

 

Yeah, this never happened. Parker couldn't do a thing outside of throwing up long, contested jumpers when LeBron was on him.

[Jenksismyhero]

Yeah, this never happened. Parker couldn't do a thing outside of throwing up long, contested jumpers when LeBron was on him.

 

Or passing it to open teammates. By game 5 and 6 the Heat finally gave up on Lebron guarding Parker because it wasn't as effective as they thought and it was tiring Lebron out. Not sure what Finals you were watching.

 

Edit: I didn't mean that Parker literally had his way with Lebron and got to the hoop whenever he wanted. I meant that Lebron being on Parker didn't stop Parker from doing what he wanted to get the Spurs offense rolling, be it a kick-out to a shooter or a pick and roll. It wasn't the show stopper like Lebron on Rose.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[Boogua]

Or passing it to open teammates. By game 5 and 6 the Heat finally gave up on Lebron guarding Parker because it wasn't as effective as they thought and it was tiring Lebron out. Not sure what Finals you were watching.

 

Edit: I didn't mean that Parker literally had his way with Lebron and got to the hoop whenever he wanted. I meant that Lebron being on Parker didn't stop Parker from doing what he wanted to get the Spurs offense rolling, be it a kick-out to a shooter or a pick and roll. It wasn't the show stopper like Lebron on Rose.

Parker wasn't even 100% healthy either and he looked terrible in game 7. I remember one time he had the Birdman on him and could barely keep his dribble.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Monta Ellis to Dallas - 3/30

 

That's more than reasonable. That's pretty much it as far as FA goes.

[Rowand44]

Baron Davis says he was abducted by aliens...fantastic.

[Quin]

 

While the quality sucks, man, BG used to have a smooth game.

 

Wish we could teleport Bulls Ben Gordon to the modern day and have him off the bench for Butler.

[Jake]

Not bringing Ben Gordon back was a great move by GarPax and it wasn't considered an easy decision at the time. I got very sick of that asshole playing horrible defense. I remember in his last games with us in the playoffs, he couldn't make enough crazy shots to make up for the bulls*** he was pulling on defense. With that said, you wonder if Thibs could turn him into a rich man's Nate Robinson. I haven't seen him play in years - how could he get this bad?

[Kyyle23]

BG just isn't big enough to match up with the other SG's in the league. His defensive problems pretty much start and stop right there.

[Jake]

BG just isn't big enough to match up with the other SG's in the league. His defensive problems pretty much start and stop right there.

 

His effort was a much larger issue. It's like he knew he was too short to be a good defender, so he was content with being a lazy and horrible one

[Kyyle23]

His effort was a much larger issue. It's like he knew he was too short to be a good defender, so he was content with being a lazy and horrible one

 

I agree he is a terrible defender, and his size probably dictated his effort.

[Balta1701]

Nate Robinson drawing interest from the nuggets, return to the Bulls "unlikely to the extreme"