Your Realistic 2014 Lineup

[Jerksticks]

I'd much rather trade Hector because I think this year was a fluke. His control and walks will catch up to him and make his ERA rise. Sale and Q are keepers.

I'm torn with Hector. He's a little bit more control away from being a really good pitcher. At the same time I feel like he'll never be a consistent threat to go deep into games. If the latter is true then trading him at maybe close to peak value might help inject life into a young, unproven lineup...I just don't know where the majority of other GMs stand. He's gotta be worth a good young MLB position player, like an Adams or Eaton who project high but haven't figured s*** out yet in limited ABs. At least right? Hector has dominated at times.

[ShandyMan]

I wonder if there still is anyway the Sox could pry Adams away from the Cardinals.

 

that body of his is gonna break down real bad real fast

[witesoxfan]

that body of his is gonna break down real bad real fast

 

He's 24. Prince turns 30 next year and will be entering his 9th full season. He'll be fine. There's no way the Sox will be able to acquire him though, not with Beltran a free agent and Allen Craig or Oscar Taveras taking his spot in RF though.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Bald host guy on sports talk live....

 

C-McCann/Salty/AJ

1B- Dunn

2B- Beckham

3B- Viceido

SS- Lexi

RF- Garcia

CF- Dejesus

LF- Cruz

DH- Didn't say.

 

"If Miggy can play 3B so can Dayan"

 

 

[GGajewski18]

Bald host guy on sports talk live....

 

C-McCann/Salty/AJ

1B- Dunn

2B- Beckham

3B- Viceido

SS- Lexi

RF- Garcia

CF- Dejesus

LF- Cruz

DH- Didn't say.

 

"If Miggy can play 3B so can Dayan"

 

I wouldn't mind giving Cruz a 1 year deal. But I don't even think he knows that the Sox are after Abreu

[Balta1701]

Bald host guy on sports talk live....

 

C-McCann/Salty/AJ

1B- Dunn

2B- Beckham

3B- Viceido

SS- Lexi

RF- Garcia

CF- Dejesus

LF- Cruz

DH- Didn't say.

 

 

"If Miggy can play 3B so can Dayan"

If it helps, there's a good chance Viciedo would not be the worst infield defender in that lineup.

[glangon]

I think the way that Hahn will approach it is as follows:-

 

1) Who do we have pencilled for next year without FA and trades and who is eligible for arbitration that we want to keep.

 

2) Who do we have coming through in the next 2-3 years.

 

3) What holes do we have at the moment and for how long do we need to fill them.

 

4) Who in the current FA market can fill those holes without costing us a 2nd round draft pick or beyond.

 

5) If we sacrifice our 2nd round and possibly 3rd round pick for a high value free agent. Is the Free Agent that we go for able to a) fill one of the holes b) add long-term value c) Fit within the budget and still find room to fill other holes.

 

6) Once the free agent market is exhausted, are there any players we can via trade get that can fill the holes?

 

I honestly see a conservative approach from Hahn and can't see the big free agent splash that would cost a draft pick.

 

I see him splashing out to get Abreu and then filling the holes with good Free Agents but not the quality of Cano, Ellesbury or McCann.

 

I can see him trying to get Crain and possibly Cotts for the Bullpen. Again solid arms but nothing that will break the bank, if he doesn't there could be a major competition in Spring Training for Roster Spots.

 

 

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

John Lannan is a free agent.

Kenny's favorite pitcher! Trade Hector for a bat or two, sign Lannan to 1 year deal to give EJ/Rienzo time?

[Balta1701]

John Lannan is a free agent.

Kenny's favorite pitcher! Trade Hector for a bat or two, sign Lannan to 1 year deal to give EJ/Rienzo time?

Why do EJ/Rienzo need time? Serious Q. Maybe one of them but both stuck in AAA all year?

[Jose Abreu]

Why do EJ/Rienzo need time? Serious Q. Maybe one of them but both stuck in AAA all year?

With Hector gone, you've only got Sale-Quintana-Danks. Add Lannan, then give one of them a chance.

[Eminor3rd]

John Lannan is really bad.

[witesoxfan]

I want to expand on that.

 

John Lannan is really, really, really bad.

[Balta1701]

With Hector gone, you've only got Sale-Quintana-Danks. Add Lannan, then give one of them a chance.

I decided on my way in I wanted to elaborate on this.

 

Do not underestimate the White Sox's pitching depth in their minors. Seriously. Starting next year at AAA there will be Snodgress and Bassitt. These guys may not be top of the rotation guys, but I've seen both of them in person and both of them have major-league caliber arms. They aren't Chris Sale, don't get me wrong here, but these are 2 guys who could very well contribute to next year's roster despite being somewhat unheralded.

 

And that's ignoring the name whose footsteps we should be hearing, Beck. He's right now on the same track Johnson was on last year...in fact he's ahead of him thanks to the AA playoffs. There is a very good chance that by mid-season next year he's in AAA and we're talking about a callup for him coming soon.

 

If I'm in the GM chair, I wait for the right deal obviously, I want a guy who helps my major league starting lineup right now...but I'd seriously consider moving one of those lefties and going with Sale-Q/Santiago-Danks-Rienzo-Johnson to start the year. Yes, it's a gamble to do so, those rookies/semirookies could very readily implode...but that's also the kind of gamble the White Sox should take. High reward, and frankly, with what we have on the way in the minors, fairly low risk.

[2nd_city_saint787]

1. Covelli Crisp CF S

2. John Jaso C L (In a trade for De Aza)

3. JDA 1B R

4. Dunn DH L

5. Garcia RF R

6. Headley 3B L (in a trade for Santiago/Beckham)

7. Viciedo LF R

8. Semien/Keppinger 2B R/L

9. Ramirez SS R

 

EDIT- NVM, I guess the As are gonna exercise Coco's option. So that kills the first 2 guy. Not sure what the A's would want for Jaso but if the Sox miss out on McCann/Salty Jaso is the guy I'd try to snag.

Edited October 18, 2013 by scs787

[GreatScott82]

I'm not quite sure who the next big signing will be... However, I believe it will be either McCann or Grandy... I would prefer McCann over Grandy because outfielder spots are easier to fill than the C position IMO. If they do sign Grandy, than I hope they bring in Salty or bring back AJ. But I'm pretty sure AJ will classify as a "band-ade" solution, something Hahn wants to avoid. Is it possible that they can actually sign both guys??

 

Granderson CF FA

Beckham 2B

Abreu 1B FA

Dunn DH

McCann C FA

A. Garcia RF

Ramirez SS

Viciedo LF

Gillespie/Keppinger 3b

 

Other options may involve trades which may take place during the winter meetings....

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Now with Abreu in the fold, time to revisit. Here's what I'd love to see...

 

1. De Aza, CF

2. Semien, 2B

3. Dunn, DH

4. Abreu, 1B

5. A. Garcia, RF

6. Viciedo, LF

7. Saltalamachia, C

8. Ramirez, SS

9. Gillaspie, 3B

 

Despite the frustrations with De Aza - and his boneheadedness was awful - he adds positive value and will be relatively cheap even in arbitration. I think Viciedo gets one more year to show it, and I think he can. Saltalamachia can be gotten on probably a 3 year deal. Non-tender Flowers. I'd also be OK with non-tendering Gillaspie instead of Beckham, and Semien plays 3B instead.

 

Phegley, C

Keppinger, 2B - 3B (unless you can get rid of him, which would be great, then find cheap filler here)

L. Garcia, INF

Jor Danks, OF

 

That's not a bad bench. I have some reservations of not getting Phegley every day time, so you could also elect to make Flowers the backup and keep Phegley in Charlotte just as easily. L Garcia will be a very nice defensive replacement, can PR too. Danks covers all three OF spots competently and seems like he may even hit a little.

 

Sale

Quintana

Johnson

Danks

Rienzo/Santiago

 

How good the rotation will be will depend on the development of Johnson and Rienzo. I personally think Johnson will be a solid mid-rotation starter or maybe a little better. Danks I think returns more or less to form, maybe slightly off that but more than serviceable as a 3-4 starter. Rienzo has a ton of talent, so does Santiego, but I'm split on which one is better for the rotation. I think one of them will bloom, in which case this is a very nice rotation. If Rienzo doesn't get the job, I want him starting and stretched out in AAA.

 

Reed

Jones

Lindstrom/Crain

Webb

Lefty 1 + Lefty 2 (2 of Veal, free agent, trade acquisition, Santiago, Leesman - but not both Veal and Leesman)

Petricka/Castro

 

I like the top 4 slots on that list a lot. I think you take Lindstrom's option, maybe re-sign Crain, or get someone else similar if available. I also think both Petricka and Castro have a chance to be average or better as relievers. The lefties is the real problem, they need to go get at least one solid, reliable lefty. The other can be Santiago, also a Long Reliever in this case, or if Santiago is in the rotation then Veal and Leesman can have a who-walks-fewer-hitters contest for the job.

 

That team costs you, depending on the lefty reliever you get and what Salty costs, around $80-85M. Leaves you room to play with if, by some miracle, you are competitive mid-season. This sets you up for, ideally, someone like Micah Johnson and/or Tim Anderson maybe being ready or close to ready for 2015, when you need to replace the remianing Beckham/Gilaspie slot.

 

That team probably isn't competitive playoff-wise, probably wins 80-85 games, but sets you up nicely in key ways for 2015 while not making 2014 a complete disaster. By that time you also have a couple nice pitching prospects who should be knocking on the door of the rotation (Beck at least), and a few more bullpen guys too. And maybe, just maybe, one of the collection of toolsy OF's finally puts it together in 2014 to maybe be ready for 2015.

 

Fire away.

 

[witesoxfan]

I'd like to see an upgrade at 3B, but that's a perfectly acceptable and adequate lineup. I'd be just fine with it knowing full well that they'll be rebuilding. I have a feeling we are going to see more wholesale changes though and that the lineup will look drastically different.

[Eminor3rd]

I won't mind if we sign no more big FAs. I'd like to see a trade of some young pitching for young hitting of some kind, and then fill in the gaps with trqadeable vets on 1 year deals.

[Feeky Magee]

Right so first of all, I'm nowhere near a baseball expert, I'm relatively new to the sport but I thought this would be a fun challenge to try to get myself used to payroll stuff, WAR, evaluating talent etc. So I did some reading, here and elsewhere, on free agent talent/potential trade talent/what potential signings might be paid, and came up with this plan, presuming Abreu is done and dusted. (Bear in mind that I have little or no clue on batting order and who you should bat where.)

 

- Sign Tanaka for 6/$54m + $35m posting fee.

- Trade Santiago and Beckham for Headley, sign him to 5/$75m.

- Sign Saltalamacchia to 3/$36m.

- Non-tender Gordon Beckham.

 

1. De Aza, CF

2. Ramirez, SS

3. Dunn, DH

4. Abreu, 1B

5. A. Garcia, RF

6. Headley, 3B

7. Viciedo, LF

8. Semien, 2B

9. Saltalamacchia, C

 

Sale

Tanaka

Quintana

Johnson

Danks

 

Payroll 2014 (assuming all new contracts are equally spaced, like Danks'):

 

Dunn - 15

Headley - 15

Danks - 14.25

Saltalamacchia - 12

Arb players - approx 12 from what I can make out

Ramirez - 9.5

Tanaka - 9 (almost 15 if you factor in his posting fee over the course of his contract)

Quintana/Johnson/bullpen/utility player minimum - 8 (based on what seems to be the standard $500k for pre-arb players + Lindstrom's buyout)

Keppinger - 4

Sale - 3.5

 

So that'd be a little over $101m, or $107m if you counted Tanaka's posting fee as $6m per year. That'd leave room of $18m/$12m on last year's $119m payroll which you could spend some or all of it on bullpen free agents/trying to upgrade maybe De Aza or Viciedo.

 

But even as it is above, compared to last year's roster I think you'd be talking almost certainly (large) upgrades at 1B, C and 3B, with strong potential upgrades at 2B (I like Semien over Beckham) and second starter (I like Tanaka to have a better ERA than Peavy anyway). And then, depending on your viewpoint, a possible downgrade with Johnson over Santiago (though I really like Erik).

 

From what I read it seems as though a lot of Saltalamacchia's improvement is down to BABIP and so he probably seems due for a regression. I'd much rather McCann (even though he seems to be roughly set in a pretty solid decline year on year), but obviously considering my plan has two more big salary splashes after Abreu that'd be off the table, or even Pierzynski, but given his age and the likelihood of the Sox competing straight away it's probably not wise. Even if Saltalamacchia regressed and wasn't quite worth his contract in terms of WAR, it should be a distinct upgrade from the catastrophe at catcher this season.

 

I know the title says realistic and this probably isn't really realistic since the thought seems to be that Abreu was the big free agency splash (I saw Merkin saying something along those lines), as well as the doubt that the Sox would spend so much money on a starting pitcher, given how the starting pitching is seen as the least of the team's worries. But I certainly think it's a heavy improvement on last year (I would say all 5 of the new hitters over last year's pre-trade deadline regular line-up would be place to hit better, and I think the rotation could outperform what last year's did before Peavy was traded.

 

That'd leave the bullpen to sort out, with the extra dollars from last year's payroll, I haven't really read up too much about bullpen options. I guess the alternative would be to avoid plugging a hole for the sake of it and to wait until free agency next year, again I haven't really read too much on 2014 free agents.

 

I'm most likely talking s*** overall and have probably left stuff out in terms of salary, but overall thoughts, fellas?

Edited October 18, 2013 by Feeky Magee

[Jose Abreu]

Why is everyone assuming we are definitely going to sign another big name? This may be our only signing.

[hi8is]

overall thoughts, fellas?

Stick around and post more often.

No need to poop on your thoughts... Just rather would encourage you to continue engaging.

 

Cheers...

[hi8is]

Why is everyone assuming we are definitely going to sign another big name? This may be our only signing.

Probably for a few reasons... The major two being a multitude of free cash and gaping holes.

Gaping holes...

Gaping...

 

 

Holes....

[Jose Abreu]

Reds shopping Brandon Phillips.

Beckham, Santiago, and Webb for Phillips?

[Eminor3rd]

Right so first of all, I'm nowhere near a baseball expert, I'm relatively new to the sport but I thought this would be a fun challenge to try to get myself used to payroll stuff, WAR, evaluating talent etc. So I did some reading, here and elsewhere, on free agent talent/potential trade talent/what potential signings might be paid, and came up with this plan, presuming Abreu is done and dusted. (Bear in mind that I have little or no clue on batting order and who you should bat where.)

 

- Sign Tanaka for 6/$54m + $35m posting fee.

- Trade Santiago and Beckham for Headley, sign him to 5/$75m.

- Sign Saltalamacchia to 3/$36m.

- Non-tender Gordon Beckham.

 

1. De Aza, CF

2. Ramirez, SS

3. Dunn, DH

4. Abreu, 1B

5. A. Garcia, RF

6. Headley, 3B

7. Viciedo, LF

8. Semien, 2B

9. Saltalamacchia, C

 

Sale

Tanaka

Quintana

Johnson

Danks

 

Payroll 2014 (assuming all new contracts are equally spaced, like Danks'):

 

Dunn - 15

Headley - 15

Danks - 14.25

Saltalamacchia - 12

Arb players - approx 12 from what I can make out

Ramirez - 9.5

Tanaka - 9 (almost 15 if you factor in his posting fee over the course of his contract)

Quintana/Johnson/bullpen/utility player minimum - 8 (based on what seems to be the standard $500k for pre-arb players + Lindstrom's buyout)

Keppinger - 4

Sale - 3.5

 

So that'd be a little over $101m, or $107m if you counted Tanaka's posting fee as $6m per year. That'd leave room of $18m/$12m on last year's $119m payroll which you could spend some or all of it on bullpen free agents/trying to upgrade maybe De Aza or Viciedo.

 

But even as it is above, compared to last year's roster I think you'd be talking almost certainly (large) upgrades at 1B, C and 3B, with strong potential upgrades at 2B (I like Semien over Beckham) and second starter (I like Tanaka to have a better ERA than Peavy anyway). And then, depending on your viewpoint, a possible downgrade with Johnson over Santiago (though I really like Erik).

 

From what I read it seems as though a lot of Saltalamacchia's improvement is down to BABIP and so he probably seems due for a regression. I'd much rather McCann (even though he seems to be roughly set in a pretty solid decline year on year), but obviously considering my plan has two more big salary splashes after Abreu that'd be off the table, or even Pierzynski, but given his age and the likelihood of the Sox competing straight away it's probably not wise. Even if Saltalamacchia regressed and wasn't quite worth his contract in terms of WAR, it should be a distinct upgrade from the catastrophe at catcher this season.

 

I know the title says realistic and this probably isn't really realistic since the thought seems to be that Abreu was the big free agency splash (I saw Merkin saying something along those lines), as well as the doubt that the Sox would spend so much money on a starting pitcher, given how the starting pitching is seen as the least of the team's worries. But I certainly think it's a heavy improvement on last year (I would say all 5 of the new hitters over last year's pre-trade deadline regular line-up would be place to hit better, and I think the rotation could outperform what last year's did before Peavy was traded.

 

That'd leave the bullpen to sort out, with the extra dollars from last year's payroll, I haven't really read up too much about bullpen options. I guess the alternative would be to avoid plugging a hole for the sake of it and to wait until free agency next year, again I haven't really read too much on 2014 free agents.

 

I'm most likely talking s*** overall and have probably left stuff out in terms of salary, but overall thoughts, fellas?

 

It's a good team, but that would be insane if we landed both Abreu and Tanaka. JR is obviously letting the budget go a bit on international stuff, but I cannot see him throw $50m at an NPB team just to sign another pitcher.

 

Also, I think $100m is probably our absolute ceiling for next year, and I don't necessarily think it shouldn't be. When you throw so many guys together at once, sometimes it take them a bit to get used to playing with each other -- that's a ton of money to risk without having a clue if it's going to pay off. For example, is Abreu legit? I'm not sure I'd commit all that money if I wasn't sure if I was going to be a bat short or not.

 

Third, I'm not sure why everyone seems to think the Padres would trade Headley for Beckham and Santiago. Beckham is practically worthless, and while Santiago should have some solid value, don't you think someone would best that offer? If that's the best they can do, I'd have to believe they'd hold onto him and hope he could re-establish value at the deadline.

 

But, I like the thought process. I'd make all of those transactions in a vacuum, I just don't think they're really realistic.

 

Also, are you non-tendering Beckham or trading him?

[Dick Allen]

Reds shopping Brandon Phillips.

Beckham, Santiago, and Webb for Phillips?

Why?