Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) You don't build your team with the goal of being in the pennant race which is what I believe the Indians have done. WTF? Yes, you do. That's "exactly" what you do. Especially when you're already sitting on a great pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:04 PM) At what price? This run certainly hasn't re-energized their fan base either. Certainly not the price of taking on bad contracts for prospects who may or may not turn into anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) Perhaps I should have been more clear, young controllable talent. Gordon Beckham 2010 - .252/.317/.378/.695 2011 - .230/.296/.337/.633 2012 - .234/.296/.371/.668 2013 - .270/.325/.370/.694 (2nd half-.207/.296/.299/.594) Is Beckham really still waiting on his prime? This is going to be his 5th straight year of playing 100 games and at this pace he'll be lucky to finish the season above .260. He may still have value so lets move him while we can. Semien is more valuable at 2B, not 3B. Yeah, he's not at his prime seasons yet. That's how the age works and that's how young he was when we pushed him up. Alex Gordon, for example, came up at 23 and didn't put up a solid season until 27. If Beckham is being moved, it's the team non-tendering him. He's right on the edge of it after the 2nd half, and I'm not going to be mad at the franchise if they do so. He's probably played well enough to have 1 year under arbitration this year, but he's extremely likely to not be offered arbitration next year without improvement. He literally has zero value in a trade right now. He'd probably get picked up on waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) WTF? Yes, you do. That's "exactly" what you do. Especially when you're already sitting on a great pitching staff. I think it was Flavum who wrote - and I agreed 1000% - you build your team with the goal of winning 90+ games. The goal is not to just be in a pennant race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) Certainly not the price of taking on bad contracts for prospects who may or may not turn into anything. You'd rather have Bourne and Swisher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 01:14 PM) Alex Gordon would be the exception to the rule. I seem to remember the Blue Jays and Dodgers calling for him last July and I doubt he lost all value. At least to a national league team. Someone like you probably thinks he's going to drastically improve after 5 seasons of being less than average. Last July = July of last year or July 2013? He was definitely hitting better in July 13, and July 2012 he was still pre-arb so there was less money to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) Our Bourne and Swisher can be Abreu + McCann/Granderson/Pence/ That brings you to 70 wins . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:13 PM) You'd rather have Bourne and Swisher? If Bourne and Swisher put us in the playoffs? It's not even a question. Once they get in the playoffs anything can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 01:31 PM) You really think Abreu and McCann would only make us 5-6 games better? It's not like those would be our only moves anyways. Don't be a troll Marty. Replacing Konerko and Phegley's offense with Abreu and McCann would make a huge difference. Add in a nice rookie year for Semien, moving De Aza out of CF and a new manager/philosophy/stress on defense and were in business with our pitching. That's going to be the big problem with putting this team together...do you believe they can get back to the level of focus/defense we saw in 2012? If we think these guys are the pathetic screwups we saw on the field this year then McCann and Abreu will only make this a 70-75 win team. If the team hires someone to help these guys with their focus levels, with the day to day routine, someone to make decisions, someone to, i dunno, coach the team, then it could be a different story. Wonder why we don't have one of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Given how relatively weak the free agent market is, IMO, I believe its best to sign talent where you can, when you can. If you can sign McCann, and still think he'll produce when the FO thinks the Sox will be competitive again, then go for it. If not, then we're taking one step forward and two steps back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Can we please stop using WAR as the be-all-end-all? If we add McCann & Abreu, we don't simply add their respective WARs to our 2013 W/L record, we'd be changing the entire complexion of the offense and that would be worth a lot more than the sum of the individual parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 What are the expectations for Abreu, I have no idea. Besides that, are 3-5 in the rotation going to get better because they absolutely have to. After all that, the pen is an issue as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 02:08 PM) What are the expectations for Abreu, I have no idea. Besides that, are 3-5 in the rotation going to get better because they absolutely have to. After all that, the pen is an issue as well. If he's going to get the kind of money people are talking about for him (5/$60 or more), then the expectation should be that he steps in and hits .280+ with 25+ HR, and possibly even better on both. If my scouts looked at him and thought he couldn't at least do that then I would not sign him for the kind of money it will take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 05:50 PM) I think we should move Beckham at this point. At this point, I don't believe there is anything Semien can't do there except maybe the defense and that's considering the learning curve Semien would have. We need to get younger so Semien at 2B and picking up a young position player for CF/LF/3B could really help along with Avisail Garcia in RF. I'd be more than willing to substitute Semien for Beckham at second. I doubt the Sox are ready to give up on Beckham yet, though. He's had a long leash on his mediocre hitting career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 02:44 PM) Who here has used WAR? I know Balta is a big advocate but no one in this thread (or at least the last couple pages) have used WAR? While it hasn't been specifically stated, it's definitely been implied by several posters. If we were to add Abreu & McCann to the heart of the order, I think we immedietely become an 80+ win team, while there have been several posts that suggest we'd only be a 70 win team, which seems to be a fair estimate of the incremental WAR those players would provide on top of our expected 63 wins this season. Again, it's not just this thread, but I strongly dislike when people simply add a potential acquisition's WAR to a team's existing record to predict the team's new record. I like WAR and think it's a valuable stat, but baseball isn't that simple and can't be explained by one number. Like I said before, adding McCann & Abreu changes the entire complexion of the offense. IMO, they are worth more to us than the sum of the individual parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I haven't read anyone suggesting Shin Soo Chu, in quite a while. Why aren't more of you advocating his acquisition? His contract hasn't been extended has it? He's an On Base machine, left handed and a very good outfielder. I'd prefer him to Pence, mainly because he's a LH hitter. Chu is really good against RHP, and as I have pointed out before, our Division has very few good LH pitchers. The Sox could use several bats that would be effective vs. some of the very good right handers on the Tigers and Indians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 03:57 PM) I haven't read anyone suggesting Shin Soo Chu, in quite a while. Why aren't more of you advocating his acquisition? His contract hasn't been extended has it? He's an On Base machine, left handed and a very good outfielder. I'd prefer him to Pence, mainly because he's a LH hitter. Chu is really good against RHP, and as I have pointed out before, our Division has very few good LH pitchers. The Sox could use several bats that would be effective vs. some of the very good right handers on the Tigers and Indians. There have been people suggesting him. Problem is, he's really not a "very good outfielder". I know some people said UZR wasn't that good but when comparing apples to apples it works, De Aza had a -3 something UZR rating and Choo had a -15 something UZR, the worst in the league. If they're looking to improve their D I don't think he's a good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 03:57 PM) I haven't read anyone suggesting Shin Soo Chu, in quite a while. Why aren't more of you advocating his acquisition? His contract hasn't been extended has it? He's an On Base machine, left handed and a very good outfielder. I'd prefer him to Pence, mainly because he's a LH hitter. Chu is really good against RHP, and as I have pointed out before, our Division has very few good LH pitchers. The Sox could use several bats that would be effective vs. some of the very good right handers on the Tigers and Indians. Choo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 09:54 PM) Choo also sucks against lefty and will likely get paid 15 mil per. I've seen the Cubs, Mets and Mariners as teams interested in him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 03:03 PM) There have been people suggesting him. Problem is, he's really not a "very good outfielder". I know some people said UZR wasn't that good but when comparing apples to apples it works, De Aza had a -3 something UZR rating and Choo had a -15 something UZR, the worst in the league. If they're looking to improve their D I don't think he's a good fit. That's interesting. I had the impression that he was considered very good defensively. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 06:48 PM) That's interesting. I had the impression that he was considered very good defensively. Thanks You do have a good point about bringing in guys who smash RHP though. Looked it up and there are only 5 LH starters in our division, none on the Tigers, and the only one on the Indians is one the Sox have already roughed up, Scott Kazmir. If the Sox think they can put Avisail in CF or are ok with ADA out there for another year then I'd be game for putting Choo in a corner where he would be passable defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 06:14 PM) You do have a good point about bringing in guys who smash RHP though. Looked it up and there are only 5 LH starters in our division, none on the Tigers, and the only one on the Indians is one the Sox have already roughed up, Scott Kazmir. If the Sox think they can put Avisail in CF or are ok with ADA out there for another year then I'd be game for putting Choo in a corner where he would be passable defensively. I didn't even realize that the Reds had moved him to CF. Isn't that the explanation for his defensive struggles? He was a decent RF for the Indians. I agree that he would probably be just fine back in RF. I think he would be a great option for the Sox as a lead off hitter, with that very high OBP, even though he does have some pop. Edited September 15, 2013 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 09:04 PM) I didn't even realize that the Reds had moved him to CF. Isn't that the explanation for his defensive struggles? He was a decent RF for the Indians. I agree that he would probably be just fine back in RF. I think he would be a great option for the Sox as a lead off hitter, with that very high OBP, even though he does have some pop. The biggest concern with him is that he is 31 and someone may offer him a 6-year deal or something similar. I'd be kind of worried about giving him that long of a deal. I have always been a big fan of him though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 08:27 PM) The biggest concern with him is that he is 31 and someone may offer him a 6-year deal or something similar. I'd be kind of worried about giving him that long of a deal. I have always been a big fan of him though. I agree. I hate giving players his age long term contracts. 3 or 4 years would be reasonable, wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 10:16 PM) I agree. I hate giving players his age long term contracts. 3 or 4 years would be reasonable, wouldn't it? Choo and Ellsbury are going to get paid this offseason. I'd be shocked if it's by the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.