Your Realistic 2014 Lineup

[Lillian]

Choo is finishing on a pretty good hot streak. His season's OBP of .422 is 4TH best in the Majors.

His bat would go a long way toward improving the Sox terrible team On Base Percentage.

 

If they could sign Abreu and Choo, they may not have that much more work to do to fix this pathetic offense.

I'd like to see Semien get some time at 3B as another step toward improving the OBP.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Lillian

[cabiness42]

To say that Choo will cost to much is one thing, but to say that you don't want him at all is asinine. His bat is exactly what the Sox need.

[2nd_city_saint787]

To say that Choo will cost to much is one thing, but to say that you don't want him at all is asinine. His bat is exactly what the Sox need.

 

I agree, just not as a centerfielder. I haven't paid enough attention to know whether or not Avisail will be a good enough option in CF everyday. I suppose they can keep De Aza in CF, the benefits of having Choo in the lineup kinda outweighs subpar defense.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I agree, just not as a centerfielder. I haven't paid enough attention to know whether or not Avisail will be a good enough option in CF everyday. I suppose they can keep De Aza in CF, the benefits of having Choo in the lineup kinda outweighs subpar defense.

At this point no one should have a clue whether Avisail could be a solid CF. He has the speed to stick there but he hasn't played the position enough to get used to the ways the ball will travel and how to get a good jump on it. If you want him to be a CF long term, play him there and see what happens.

[Lillian]

If they could move Ramirez and his salary, I'd like to see Semien get a shot at SS. His ability to draw walks is what intrigues me.

Wouldn't that be refreshing?

 

If the Sox draft Trea Turner, he will be expected to be the SS in 2 or 3 years.

 

Here is my realistic potential line up for next year, at least vs. RHP:

 

RF Choo

2B Beckham

CF Garcia

C McGann

1B Abreu

DH Dunn

LF Viciedo

3B ??? (Ideally, a LH hitting decent fielder, if there is one out there and available)

SS Semien

 

That means de Aza is either gone, or the 4Th outfielder

[cabiness42]

If they could move Ramirez and his salary, I'd like to see Semien get a shot at SS. His ability to draw walks is what intrigues me.

Wouldn't that be refreshing?

 

Wait, shortstops are allowed to draw walks????

[balfanman]

At this point no one should have a clue whether Avisail could be a solid CF. He has the speed to stick there but he hasn't played the position enough to get used to the ways the ball will travel and how to get a good jump on it. If you want him to be a CF long term, play him there and see what happens.

 

As one who values excellent defense, at the middle positions especially, I really don't like this idea. I would much rather have a real centerfielder, gold glove calibur defense, regardless of how he hits, provided he isn't totally incompetent with the bat. Meaning that he can at least put down a bunt when needed, and hit circa 220 - 230. If you're going to have Choo and Garcia on the same team I say put them in right and left, whichever way.

 

That's the thing that sickens and worries me most about this horrid season. If it's just a bad offense, that can be fixed fairly easily. The piss poor defence has really tempered my outlook for this teams short term future. I don't expect gold glovers at every position, but geesh, the team defense this year has been beyond terrible.

[Eminor3rd]

If they could move Ramirez and his salary, I'd like to see Semien get a shot at SS. His ability to draw walks is what intrigues me.

Wouldn't that be refreshing?

 

If the Sox draft Trea Turner, he will be expected to be the SS in 2 or 3 years.

 

Here is my realistic potential line up for next year, at least vs. RHP:

 

RF Choo

2B Beckham

CF Garcia

C McGann

1B Abreu

DH Dunn

LF Viciedo

3B ??? (Ideally, a LH hitting decent fielder, if there is one out there and available)

SS Semien

 

That means de Aza is either gone, or the 4Th outfielder

 

See, even after all that, you're relying on Beckham/Garcia as your #2 and #3 hitters.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'd love to see the Sox acquire Parra or Rasmus for CF. Sign me up for a Garcia-Parra/Rasmus-Choo outfield.

[Lillian]

I'd love to see the Sox acquire Parra or Rasmus for CF. Sign me up for a Garcia-Parra/Rasmus-Choo outfield.

 

I like your choices for CF as well, but that means Viciedo would have to move. Would you try him at 3RD again?

He does have the arm.

 

If Viciedo doesn't play 3RD, then you have to find a taker for Dunn, in order to make room for Abreu and Viciedo at 1B and DH.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Do you guys really think we should sign Shin Soo Choo?

 

1. He'll be 32

2. He has always been injury prone

3. He will likely cost something like 5/$100m

4. He plays the same position as one of the only "building block" position players we have in the entire organization

[Eminor3rd]

I like your choices for CF as well, but that means Viciedo would have to move. Would you try him at 3RD again?

He does have the arm.

 

If Viciedo doesn't play 3RD, then you have to find a taker for Dunn, in order to make room for Abreu and Viciedo at 1B and DH.

 

If Viciedo doesn't improve a lot next year, you probably just DFA him or bury him at DH until you have any other player to put there.

[iamshack]

Do you guys really think we should sign Shin Soo Choo?

 

1. He'll be 32

2. He has always been injury prone

3. He will likely cost something like 5/$100m

4. He plays the same position as one of the only "building block" position players we have in the entire organization

I really think that Hahn is going to be a bit ahead of the curve in terms of paying players for past performance. I am anticipating him trying to sign Abreu and trying to trade for some pre-arbitration guys who may be blocked or need a change of scenery.

[Eminor3rd]

I really think that Hahn is going to be a bit ahead of the curve in terms of paying players for past performance. I am anticipating him trying to sign Abreu and trying to trade for some pre-arbitration guys who may be blocked or need a change of scenery.

 

I think that's the best possible plan. No idea if that's what he'll do though

[iamshack]

I think that's the best possible plan. No idea if that's what he'll do though

Well he will obviously be limited by what opportunities are available, but the fact that he pulled off that three team deal in basically his first big move makes me feel like he will be willing to get creative.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Do you guys really think we should sign Shin Soo Choo?

 

1. He'll be 32

2. He has always been injury prone

3. He will likely cost something like 5/$100m

4. He plays the same position as one of the only "building block" position players we have in the entire organization

 

Someone will...Why not?

 

He's played 58 games in LF so if they don't wanna move Garcia to left or center then I'm sure they can put Choo in left.

 

Also he's only been hurt once the last 5 years so I wouldn't really call him injury prone.

 

It certainly would be nice to have his obp sitting at the top of the lineup.

 

Furthermore, there's a trickle down effect to having him up top.. Over the last 3 years Lexi has hit .304/.343/.451 with runners on so batting him 2nd behind Choo could be a huge plus for Lexi as well. Also Dunn has hit 32 points higher with an ops 61 points higher with runners in scoring position.

Edited September 16, 2013 by scs787

[Lillian]

See, even after all that, you're relying on Beckham/Garcia as your #2 and #3 hitters.

 

Yes, you're right. However, Batting Garcia 3RD assumes that he is producing. With that lineup, if he doesn't produce there would be several options. Abreu, or McGann could hit in that spot. It would depend upon who was performing the best.

[Lillian]

Do you guys really think we should sign Shin Soo Choo?

 

1. He'll be 32

2. He has always been injury prone

3. He will likely cost something like 5/$100m

4. He plays the same position as one of the only "building block" position players we have in the entire organization

 

A year or two ago, I would have agreed with you. Then we could have had realistic hopes for a young outfield of Mitchell, Viciedo, Hawkins, or K. Walker and Trayce Thompson. Now, it looks like if may be quite a while before any of those guys are ready to be on the 25 man roster, if ever. I think there is room on this team for both A. Garcia and Choo.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Lillian

[witesoxfan]

Someone will...Why not?

 

He's played 58 games in LF so if they don't wanna move Garcia to left or center then I'm sure they can put Choo in left.

 

Also he's only been hurt once the last 5 years so I wouldn't really call him injury prone.

 

You are still paying a glorified platoon player $20 mill a year. Yes, he's very solid against RHP, but in 2 years he may be hitting .260 with no power. Do you really want to pay $20 mill a year for a guy who is putting up .260/.300/.400? With declining defense? Keep in mind those slugging numbers would probably be way worse

Edited September 16, 2013 by witesoxfan

[Lillian]

You are still paying a glorified platoon player $20 mill a year. Yes, he's very solid against RHP, but in 2 years he may be hitting .260 with no power. Do you really want to pay $20 mill a year for a guy who is putting up .260/.300/.400? With declining defense? Keep in mind those slugging numbers would probably be way worse

 

Thanks for pointing out how bad Choo has been vs. LHP, the last two years. What happened to him?

He never was that bad earlier in his career. In fact, even with the last two seasons, his career OBP vs lefties, is still .340.

Well, if the Sox sign him, it will be nice to know that most of the good left handers in the league are on our team, so he wouldn't have to face them.

 

Moreover, if it really takes $20 million a year to sign him, I'd pass, especially if it's for any more than 3 years.

If he could be signed for under $15 million per year on a 3 year contract, would you make that move?

Edited September 16, 2013 by Lillian

[cabiness42]

Do you guys really think we should sign Shin Soo Choo?

 

1. He'll be 32

2. He has always been injury prone

3. He will likely cost something like 5/$100m

4. He plays the same position as one of the only "building block" position players we have in the entire organization

 

He's played 144+ games in 4 of the last 5 seasons. Also, I don't care what position he plays. He's a far better hitter than anybody else that is currently or potentially will be on this team. He's a guy you move others around in order to fit.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

You are still paying a glorified platoon player $20 mill a year. Yes, he's very solid against RHP, but in 2 years he may be hitting .260 with no power. Do you really want to pay $20 mill a year for a guy who is putting up .260/.300/.400? With declining defense? Keep in mind those slugging numbers would probably be way worse

 

There's definitely an argument to made against him, I won't deny that. To go along with what Lillian brought up and I elaborated on, the Sox see far more RHP, especially within the division so the fact that he rakes against RHP is a huge plus. De Aza has had 129 ABs vs LHP this year which is tops on the team. I know this has the potential to change from year to year but at this point, sans the Sox of course, our division is extremely RH heavy.

 

His declining D won't look nearly as bad if they put him in LF.

 

I'm also not convinced that hitters with a good eye will decline to the numbers you suggest....Will he be worth the 20M in years 4-5 of his contract? No probably not but for the first 3 he SHOULD be absolutely worth it..

 

The payroll right now is dirt cheap, signing a guy who like Choo for 20M a year won't hurt that much financially.

[Eminor3rd]

No, the the $20m doesn't hurt you right now, it hurts you for like 3 seasons later, which happen to be the seasons you might actually have a chance at winning.

 

Also, let's not ignore that defense. I know he doesn't belong in center, but with the Indians in 2012, he was a -16.7 defender in RF. That is insane-horribad. He's -15.6 so far this year. This is a guy who is worse than -30 runs defensively over the last two years.

 

And he'll be 32. Come on guys, what happens to players after age 32? They get worse. And guys who already have huge flaws in their game (extreme platoon splits, garbage defense) tend to get real bad, really quickly. Why are you all so eager to pay for a 32 year old platoon player's career year all of a sudden? To add an embarrassingly bad defender to the most embarrassingly bad defense in the majors? You're not paying for prime Choo, you're paying for post-prime Choo.

 

I love the OBP, but at this stage in his career, he's a hired gun on a contender that is willing to eat it for the final piece. That is not what this team needs. Maybe you guys haven't been watching lately -- this team BLOWS. I was at the game Saturday and left early for the first time in my life. It was just bad entertainment and not worth being there.

[Marty34]

I really think that Hahn is going to be a bit ahead of the curve in terms of paying players for past performance. I am anticipating him trying to sign Abreu and trying to trade for some pre-arbitration guys who may be blocked or need a change of scenery.

 

I hope you are right. A goal should be no deadwight contracts by 2016.

[Lillian]

No, the the $20m doesn't hurt you right now, it hurts you for like 3 seasons later, which happen to be the seasons you might actually have a chance at winning.

 

Also, let's not ignore that defense. I know he doesn't belong in center, but with the Indians in 2012, he was a -16.7 defender in RF. That is insane-horribad. He's -15.6 so far this year. This is a guy who is worse than -30 runs defensively over the last two years.

 

And he'll be 32. Come on guys, what happens to players after age 32? They get worse. And guys who already have huge flaws in their game (extreme platoon splits, garbage defense) tend to get real bad, really quickly. Why are you all so eager to pay for a 32 year old platoon player's career year all of a sudden? To add an embarrassingly bad defender to the most embarrassingly bad defense in the majors? You're not paying for prime Choo, you're paying for post-prime Choo.

 

I love the OBP, but at this stage in his career, he's a hired gun on a contender that is willing to eat it for the final piece. That is not what this team needs. Maybe you guys haven't been watching lately -- this team BLOWS. I was at the game Saturday and left early for the first time in my life. It was just bad entertainment and not worth being there.

 

You make a pretty convincing case against signing Choo. Is there another player who you would suggest to quickly fix this team's terrible OBP? Would you still view his acquisition negatively, if he could be signed to a 3 year deal, at $15 million per year?

 

I'm not so sure that Sox management is thinking that they won't be competitive until 2016. Hell, by then the young, affordable pitching may not be so affordable anymore. Quintana and Santiago will be starting to earn big money, if they're still any good.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Lillian