Your Realistic 2014 Lineup

[flavum]

If he's going to be playing 3B with Alexei and Beckham at SS/2B, they sure as hell better bring in power at some other positions.

 

Semien will be in the middle. Alexei is going. Or Beckham. Or both.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

After hearing Hahn state on Hit and Run that the Sox have to get better with their fundamentals and defense, it's hard to imagine De Aza being brought back next year. Just like with Stone bashing Rios for a few weeks prior to him getting dealt, it seems like Hawk and Stone are openly bashing De Aza at every chance they get.

And De Aza keeps giving plenty of chances.

[Balta1701]

After hearing Hahn state on Hit and Run that the Sox have to get better with their fundamentals and defense, it's hard to imagine De Aza being brought back next year. Just like with Stone bashing Rios for a few weeks prior to him getting dealt, it seems like Hawk and Stone are openly bashing De Aza at every chance they get.

At least we know one guy is safe. The manager. After all, he has nothing to do with getting those guys to practice and be ready for a game. And it's always easier to replace players than the manager right?

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Just when you think Beckham has turned it around, he goes and puts up an awful 2nd half of the season. Now batting under .220 for the 2nd half.

He is what he is. Maybe Semien or L Garcia can show enough to take his place at 2B next season.

[greg775]

And De Aza keeps giving plenty of chances.

 

Is DeAza any good in left or a disaster in both left and center?

[ChiSox59]

Is DeAza any good in left or a disaster in both left and center?

 

Do you even watch the games?

[Eminor3rd]

I'd would love to see Alexei moved in the offseason. Would probably need to eat some cash to get a decent prospect, but I can't see any reason not to do that after moving all that payroll over the last couple months. I think Beckham gets one more year, but we need a slot open for Garcia/Semien to get going. Alexei has no upside, so he gawn.

 

I'd also like to see a pitcher moved for a young hitter or prospect. I'd much rather move Santiago than Quintana, but if Quintana brings a substantially better return, I'd go for it. I'd like to see an attempt at extending Quintana otherwise. With Johnson/Rienzo, I'm not sure we even need to sign a buy-low pitcher even if we trade someone over the winter.

[Balta1701]

I'd would love to see Alexei moved in the offseason. Would probably need to eat some cash to get a decent prospect, but I can't see any reason not to do that after moving all that payroll over the last couple months. I think Beckham gets one more year, but we need a slot open for Garcia/Semien to get going. Alexei has no upside, so he gawn.

 

I'd also like to see a pitcher moved for a young hitter or prospect. I'd much rather move Santiago than Quintana, but if Quintana brings a substantially better return, I'd go for it. I'd like to see an attempt at extending Quintana otherwise. With Johnson/Rienzo, I'm not sure we even need to sign a buy-low pitcher even if we trade someone over the winter.

I think it's safe to say there is zero chance the Sox are sending significant amounts of money to someone to move Alexei. Frankly, nor should they, he's had a solid year, better than last year, established in the last month he still has some power but they were putting him in situations where he wasn't using it, and his defense may well still be better than this if he is put in a place where he needs to stay more focused.

 

I think they're sitting with a high price on Alexei for now, I think the trade deadline established that pretty clearly. Maybe next year it comes down if Semien is 100% ready and Beckham continues to hit.

 

Leury will make a fine utility guy for now. Hopefully his presence will allow them to actually give guys an offday next year, as opposed to waiting until late August like we did this year. If Leury hits well enough to take over the position, spectacular.

[Rowand44]

Ideally, I'd like to find a 3b with some pop and let Semien take over for either Alexei or Beckham, I really don't care which one at this point.

[Balta1701]

Ideally, I'd like to find a 3b with some pop and let Semien take over for either Alexei or Beckham, I really don't care which one at this point.

I've tried to figure out anyone who made sense as obviously an improvement over a Gillaspie/Keppinger platoon and I've struggled. Outside of the guy in Minnesota there's not a lot of high-flying 3b prospects right now that I can recall who would be a sensible target if the Sox moved one of their starting pitchers, and the FA class is more than weak:

Third basemen

 

Yuniesky Betancourt (32)

Wilson Betemit (32) - $3.2MM vesting option

Jamey Carroll (40) - $2MM vesting option with a $250K buyout

Eric Chavez (36)

Mark DeRosa (39) - $750K club option with a $25K buyout

Jerry Hairston Jr. (38)

Brandon Inge (37)

Placido Polanco (38)

Mark Reynolds (30)

Juan Uribe (34)

Kevin Youkilis (35)

Michael Young (37)

 

About the only bat that could possibly help at 3b would be to sign Jhonny Peralta and move him to 3b, but there's the whole "signing a guy just off a steroid suspension" thing to deal with.

 

You have any other ideas?

[ChiSox59]

I've tried to figure out anyone who made sense as obviously an improvement over a Gillaspie/Keppinger platoon and I've struggled. Outside of the guy in Minnesota there's not a lot of high-flying 3b prospects right now that I can recall who would be a sensible target if the Sox moved one of their starting pitchers, and the FA class is more than weak:

 

 

About the only bat that could possibly help at 3b would be to sign Jhonny Peralta and move him to 3b, but there's the whole "signing a guy just off a steroid suspension" thing to deal with.

 

You have any other ideas?

 

I'd rather get a young guy in there, but Peralta wouldn't be a terrible stop gap if they don't want to subtract from the rotation.

 

Cowart (LAAA), Cecchini (Boston), Gallo (Texas), Arenado (Rockies), Seager (LAD), Cuthbert (KC) would all be guys I would target and float Quintana's name. Some of those listed would obviously be very tough to get.

 

Other interesting names would be Moustakas and Jed Gyorko. I wonder if the Royals would listen if we were offering Quintana. Gyorko may be tough to get ahold of, but the Pads could use pitching, and he has had a bit of disapointing year.

[GreatScott82]

I've tried to figure out anyone who made sense as obviously an improvement over a Gillaspie/Keppinger platoon and I've struggled. Outside of the guy in Minnesota there's not a lot of high-flying 3b prospects right now that I can recall who would be a sensible target if the Sox moved one of their starting pitchers, and the FA class is more than weak:

 

 

About the only bat that could possibly help at 3b would be to sign Jhonny Peralta and move him to 3b, but there's the whole "signing a guy just off a steroid suspension" thing to deal with.

 

You have any other ideas?

Are there any 3b prospects coming out who will be high on the draft board? We can possibly continue the Kepp/Gillapsie platoon until someone like that is ready...

 

There just really isn't a whole lot of talented 3b out there these days. If they are talented, they are likely locked up for 6-8 years already.

[witesoxfan]

Are there any 3b prospects coming out who will be high on the draft board? We can possibly continue the Kepp/Gillapsie platoon until someone like that is ready...

 

There just really isn't a whole lot of talented 3b out there these days. If they are talented, they are likely locked up for 6-8 years already.

 

You simply don't draft in baseball based on need. It's the one sport you can truly say that, if you draft based on need, you will ultimately fail. Successful teams find a good comfort zone between talent and skill. Take the Cardinals, a team with a guy like Allen Craig playing 1B for them after being an 8th round pick. He's not a sexy player but he's a very good hitter and he's turned himself into a good defender. Meanwhile, you get a guy like Domonic Brown getting drafted in the 20th round as a raw talent, and he's become one of the better young players in the game.

 

The Sox need to draft the best player available to them, and then work on developing that talent. If it's a SS that projects to be a 3B, so be it. If it's a lefty with a big slider, so be it. If it's a high floor college bat who is likely to hit .300/.350/.450 at 2B, so be it. Guys can be moved and traded and whatever, and other guys get hurt and regress and whatever. So you get the best player you can, and you don't look back.

[nickofypres]

I think they salary-dump Alexei in the off season.

 

Rotation: Sale, Danks, Quintana, Santiago, Johnson/Rienzo

Bullpen: Reed, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Petricka, Leesman, F/A

 

C: Phegley

1B: Abreu

2B: Beckham

3B: Gillespie

SS: Semien

LF: Viciedo

CF: De Aza

RF: A. Garcia

DH: Dunn

 

UT: L. Garica

IF: Keppinger

OF: Danks

C: Flowers

Edited September 4, 2013 by whitesox901

[Eminor3rd]

I think it's safe to say there is zero chance the Sox are sending significant amounts of money to someone to move Alexei. Frankly, nor should they, he's had a solid year, better than last year, established in the last month he still has some power but they were putting him in situations where he wasn't using it, and his defense may well still be better than this if he is put in a place where he needs to stay more focused.

 

I think they're sitting with a high price on Alexei for now, I think the trade deadline established that pretty clearly. Maybe next year it comes down if Semien is 100% ready and Beckham continues to hit.

 

Leury will make a fine utility guy for now. Hopefully his presence will allow them to actually give guys an offday next year, as opposed to waiting until late August like we did this year. If Leury hits well enough to take over the position, spectacular.

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but I'd still like to see it happen, especially if they manage to move a pitcher for another bat. Even if that bat is an OF, you can play Semien at 3B. Alexei has been solid -- looks like he'll end up about 3 WAR, but that's still propped up almost totally by defense and positional adjustment. His bat has been solid for a SS, but we're still talking about an 82 wRC+, which is simply not an impact bat. So, since we're talking about having a SS whose value comes almost completely from his glove, I don't know that the dropoff to Leury would be very much at the end of day, and he'd clearly benefit from time to adjust to Majors.

[Balta1701]

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but I'd still like to see it happen, especially if they manage to move a pitcher for another bat. Even if that bat is an OF, you can play Semien at 3B. Alexei has been solid -- looks like he'll end up about 3 WAR, but that's still propped up almost totally by defense and positional adjustment. His bat has been solid for a SS, but we're still talking about an 82 wRC+, which is simply not an impact bat. So, since we're talking about having a SS whose value comes almost completely from his glove, I don't know that the dropoff to Leury would be very much at the end of day, and he'd clearly benefit from time to adjust to Majors.

I'm not going to be mad if Alexei is moved but if they're going to move him they ought to get a solid return for him. He's affordably under contract for several years and fills a position that is a key need for a lot of teams. Take a look at the contract Elvis Andrus is only a little bit better than Alexei with the bat in his previous years (worse than Alexei this year) and the Rangers signed him to 8/$120.

 

The Sox shouldn't need to send along money with Alexei because they ought to be getting significant returns back and Alexei isn't going to be expensive even in his most expensive year. If they send out a significant amount of money, they better be getting someone who is irresistable in return.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Oh boy. We are not trading Alexei to have Leury Garcia play everday.

[Eminor3rd]

I'm not going to be mad if Alexei is moved but if they're going to move him they ought to get a solid return for him. He's affordably under contract for several years and fills a position that is a key need for a lot of teams. Take a look at the contract Elvis Andrus is only a little bit better than Alexei with the bat in his previous years (worse than Alexei this year) and the Rangers signed him to 8/$120.

 

The Sox shouldn't need to send along money with Alexei because they ought to be getting significant returns back and Alexei isn't going to be expensive even in his most expensive year. If they send out a significant amount of money, they better be getting someone who is irresistable in return.

 

Right, but the Rangers gave that to Andrus coming off his second straight season north of 90 wRC+ (92 and 96), and they gave that to a 23 year old who presumably had a good deal of offensive upside. You're right that Alexei has been better than Andrus this year, but Andrus' season has been a disappointment, and wasn't what they Rangers thought they were buying when they signed extended him.

 

Alexei is a good player paid roughly market value, but he's 32 and his skills are declining at the plate. If we have young guys who need at bats, we should get what we can for Alexei and get those young guys as much experience as possible in 2014, IMO.

 

EDIT: As far as sending money goes, I don't think they should NEED to send any to move him either, but sending money is the way to maximize his return regardless, if only because it increases the number of potential suitors.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[witesoxfan]

Oh boy. We are not trading Alexei to have Leury Garcia play everday.

 

I want to see him a bit more with the glove, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to the idea. Young guy, decent pop, good glove...if the glove is there and he's good, it would be good to get him playing time. If the glove is only solid, then you play him all over, because Semien is going to be more valuable.

 

Really, at the end of the day, I want to see how everything plays out before I make bold declarations like this. The club obviously likes Garcia, even if there was the added benefit of getting out from Rios' contract as well.

[Balta1701]

Alexei is a good player paid roughly market value, but he's 32 and his skills are declining at the plate. If we have young guys who need at bats, we should get what we can for Alexei and get those young guys as much experience as possible in 2014, IMO.

The problem is, this really isn't the case this year. His performance at the plate this year is better than last year and has gotten better as the season has gone on. (If a team really paid attention, the fact that he hit a ton more power as soon as he was out of the 2 hole should be really important too).

 

Alexei's given every indication this season that he's going to age well, the only question is his level of focus on the field and whether or not he's on a team/has a manager that can help with that.

[Eminor3rd]

The problem is, this really isn't the case this year. His performance at the plate this year is better than last year and has gotten better as the season has gone on. (If a team really paid attention, the fact that he hit a ton more power as soon as he was out of the 2 hole should be really important too).

 

Alexei's given every indication this season that he's going to age well, the only question is his level of focus on the field and whether or not he's on a team/has a manager that can help with that.

 

I disagree with that premise. This year was better than last offensively, but that's just because last year was horrible. The fact is, this year is his second worst offensive season, and he's now two years removed from showing 10+ HR pop. He's never been able to duplicate his rookie year at the plate. Aging players tend to gain power and patience to compensate for their declining athleticism, but Alexei has been backwards: he's shown absolutely nothing to suggest he's becoming a smarter hitter, and has remained useful instead because he's retained his speed and improved his defense. Anything could happen, but if I was a betting man, I'd put my money on age sapping his legs before he has a late career hitting renaissance and learns to work himself into hitters' counts and allow him to increase his slugging.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[witesoxfan]

Ramirez has been hitting line drives at an increase rate this year, but it's been at the expense of his power. Still, if he can become a .300 hitter by not looking to hit home runs and just trying to hit singles, I have no problem with that, and it's not a transformation that's without precedent.

 

Since dropping to a season low .246 on May 12th, Ramirez has put up a .297/.316/.391/.707, which is about a 90 wRC+ (give or take). That's perfectly acceptable, even if you'd like to see him walk and slug more.

[Balta1701]

Ramirez has been hitting line drives at an increase rate this year, but it's been at the expense of his power. Still, if he can become a .300 hitter by not looking to hit home runs and just trying to hit singles, I have no problem with that, and it's not a transformation that's without precedent.

 

Since dropping to a season low .246 on May 12th, Ramirez has put up a .297/.316/.391/.707, which is about a 90 wRC+ (give or take). That's perfectly acceptable, even if you'd like to see him walk and slug more.

Some of that, we should note, seemed to be a direct consequence of him being put in the #2 slot in the batting order. How much it's hard to say, but when he got put in the 3 slot he suddenly found his power stroke again.

[Eminor3rd]

Some of that, we should note, seemed to be a direct consequence of him being put in the #2 slot in the batting order. How much it's hard to say, but when he got put in the 3 slot he suddenly found his power stroke again.

 

That may be true, or it may not. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. Still, even if it was absolutely true that he hits better and with more power from the #3 spot, do you really want to clog the 3 spot up with a ~90 wRC+ hitter? Alexei's bat, at its best, is good "for a shortstop," but it's still a below league average bat by a significant margin. He's an asset as a #7 hitter, but the fact that he's been a key run producer at #3 is just a testament to how completely impotent our offense is. Considering that Alexei is not likely to get any better, and that if he is, he needs to be our three hitter, there's just no argument I can think of that he should stand in the way of player development, because a team that relies on a 90 wRC+ for serious run production is not a team that will win many games.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[Balta1701]

That may be true, or it may not. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. Still, even if it was absolutely true that he hits better and with more power from the #3 spot, do you really want to clog the 3 spot up with a ~90 wRC+ hitter? Alexei's bat, at its best, is good "for a shortstop," but it's still a below league average bat by a significant margin. He's an asset as a #7 hitter, but the fact that he's been a key run producer at #3 is just a testament to how completely impotent our offense is. Considering that Alexei is not likely to get any better, and that if he is, he needs to be our three hitter, there's just no argument I can think of that he should stand in the way of player development, because a team that relies on a 90 wRC+ for serious run production is not a team that will win many games.

The point there would be that Alexei could presumably continue to have that power stroke if he was hitting 7th, and there were some unique requirements of hitting in the 2 slot that were causing him to adjust his stroke.