Your Realistic 2014 Lineup

[The Ultimate Champion]

Are you serious? I mean Jones you can make a case for but Sanchez? Rienzo? I'd give up both of them for Alonso. If Hahn offered Rienzo AND Sanchez for Alonso he would probably get laughed at.

Yeah I'd remove the "probably."

 

Sanchez could be a nice under-the-radar prospect, especially with a rebound in 2014 in Charlotte, but Rienzo? Rienzo is a MR, 5th starter, barely in the league kind of arm. If we want anyone good without giving up Q and the team we're dealing with wants pitching, there's no way we can pull anything off without at least including Beck and/or Johnson.

 

Rienzo + Sanchez is similar in talent/upside to the package the Sox acquired Youkilis for which everyone thought was a murderous steal. IMO it's better than what we gave up to get 1/2 season of Liriano but not by much. And sadly it's also about what we got out of Carlos Quentin

[witesoxfan]

Are you serious? I mean Jones you can make a case for but Sanchez? Rienzo? I'd give up both of them for Alonso. If Hahn offered Rienzo AND Sanchez for Alonso he would probably get laughed at.

 

Then no deal. Grandal is just as likely to be a .250/.300/.375 guy as he is worse or better. The sample size for him is less than a full season. Meanwhile, Rienzo could turn into a perfectly serviceable #3-4 starter, a nice middle reliever, or a decent final trade piece. There's no need for the Sox to deal him at this point. Carlos Sanchez is coming off a down year, but he was one of the youngest players in the International League and had a very good 2012. He's probably a utility infielder in a worst case scenario and a fairly decent .320/.375/.425 sort of guy in his best seasons.

 

Not sure of your angle here but PED suspensions didn't stop our front office from acquiring Flowers or Nieto.

 

Flowers was coming off a great year in AA and AFL when the Sox acquired him. They traded way low on Javy Vazquez and got an OK package of talent in return. Nieto cost $50K. These are very, very different situations from trading prospects for a guy coming off a significant injury AND a PED suspension.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah I'd remove the "probably."

 

Sanchez could be a nice under-the-radar prospect, especially with a rebound in 2014 in Charlotte, but Rienzo? Rienzo is a MR, 5th starter, barely in the league kind of arm. If we want anyone good without giving up Q and the team we're dealing with wants pitching, there's no way we can pull anything off without at least including Beck and/or Johnson.

 

Rienzo + Sanchez is similar in talent/upside to the package the Sox acquired Youkilis for which everyone thought was a murderous steal. IMO it's better than what we gave up to get 1/2 season of Liriano but not by much. And sadly it's also about what we got out of Carlos Quentin

 

The White Sox gave up Zach Stewart and Brent Lillibridge for Kevin Youkilis. That is different on about 3 or 4 different levels.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Not sure of your angle here but PED suspensions didn't stop our front office from acquiring Flowers or Nieto.

Nieto was Rule-5 and Tyler was an AFL performer. You can smoke crack, sell crack, drive buses full of children off cliffs, bomb orphanges, etc. doesn't matter what you do as long as you mash in the AFL, and if do KW will acquire you.

[The Ultimate Champion]

The White Sox gave up Zach Stewart and Brent Lillibridge for Kevin Youkilis. That is different on about 3 or 4 different levels.

No it's not. Zach Stewart was a legitimate prospect who fell off & never made it. Rienzo is far lesser than he was. Lilli was at least a somewhat decent MLB UT guy whereas Sanchez - although he would have greater value than Lilli at the time - is coming off a down season in AAA. It's pretty close. We're not getting anything out of Rienzo dude, and Sanchez is going to have to show someone something to regain value.

[southsider2k5]

Nieto was Rule-5 and Tyler was an AFL performer. You can smoke crack, sell crack, drive buses full of children off cliffs, bomb orphanges, etc. doesn't matter what you do as long as you mash in the AFL, and if do KW will acquire you.

 

Because we have obtained a lot of crack smokers, dealers, orphan bombers, and school bus destroyers....

 

[SoxAce]

Not sure of your angle here but PED suspensions didn't stop our front office from acquiring Flowers or Nieto.

 

Not to mention Quintana. (young kid being foolish/had no idea or not, still looms) Don't think any of us wanna run him out of town. (Rienzo as well for that matter) You might as well bring in the one with the highest ceiling (also second youngest on that list) and an OBP machine. As was said earlier though... price is obviously pending of it as it makes no sense to trade someone like Erik Johnson for example. Or unless sox feel they really think Nieto can actually overachieve and maybe get by with his defense/arm throwing out baserunners.

 

I was high on Phegley's bat comming out of IU, but he's just not comparable to a talent like Grandal. Josh has only had 121 less PAs than Grandal (who walks a hell of alot more) and his numbers were much better at the cell (.255/.274/.353/.627) than on the road. Grandals (to combine his '12 numbers as well to average the same amount of PA as Phegley as he was injured) are better on the road than at home. (.288/.399/.460/.859) He would be a tremendous addition for his bat/eye alone. Now, if the sox can find someone to fill that role if LF instead (from De Aza/Viciedo) then by all means I'll live with a Phegley/Flowers/Nieto type. I'm not the type who looks a sour eye on a player who took PEDs like others. I'm one of the few here who will still defend Bonds as a HOF and wanted him on our team a few years ago for example.

Edited December 17, 2013 by SoxAce

[witesoxfan]

No it's not. Zach Stewart was a legitimate prospect who fell off & never made it. Rienzo is far lesser than he was. Lilli was at least a somewhat decent MLB UT guy whereas Sanchez - although he would have greater value than Lilli at the time - is coming off a down season in AAA. It's pretty close. We're not getting anything out of Rienzo dude, and Sanchez is going to have to show someone something to regain value.

 

Stewart had proven he couldn't strike people out. Rienzo can do that. Stewart had proven to be a mediocre pitcher in the high minors. Rienzo has proven to be good, if somewhat wild. The Sox also have more control of Rienzo than they did Stewart and are also not in a position to be trading excess pitching at this moment.

 

Lillibridge was 28, out of options, hitting .175/.232/.190/.422 at the time of the trade, and he wasn't playing. Carlos Sanchez turns 22 on June 29th of next year, already has about a year and a half of experience at AAA, and still has 3 options.

 

The Sox also were running out Brent Morel and Orlando Hudson at 3B. Kevin Youkilis provided an immediate upgrade for a team in the playoff hunt. The 2014 White Sox are in the process of a retooling/rebuilding/transition where they need all the young, cost controlled players they can, rather than trading them for catchers coming off significant injuries who have been connected to PEDs.

 

I also have yet to hear why the Padres would accept that or any of these deals. If Grandal is so good, why would they sell so low on him? You guys have said yourselves Hedges is not ready yet.

 

None of it really makes sense. If the Sox acquire him, they are paying a lot for an incredible risk, while at the same time the Padres are selling low for an extremely talented ball player whom they have room for on the roster.

[witesoxfan]

Aside from acquiring the cancer that was an active Barry Bonds, I agree on every point. Wite saying Alonso would post a .300 OBP is way off. That's why I like Alonso because his basement is better than anything we have. If he comes here and underperforms he'd still hit .250/.330 with decent power. There is no way you can go from an OBP of .380 in your first 334 PAs in the bigs to regressing to .300. At every level and phase of Alonso's career he has shown a propensity to get on base.

 

If the Sox had the chance to acquire Travis D'Arnaud, would you do that?

[SoxAce]

Aside from acquiring the cancer that was an active Barry Bonds, I agree on every point. Wite saying Alonso would post a .300 OBP is way off. That's why I like Alonso because his basement is better than anything we have. If he comes here and underperforms he'd still hit .250/.330 with decent power. There is no way you can go from an OBP of .380 in your first 334 PAs in the bigs to regressing to .300. At every level and phase of Alonso's career he has shown a propensity to get on base.

 

I don't know why you keep saying Alonzo unless you have a weird love for Yonder Alonzo.

[southsider2k5]

These are the teams that we should be calling about Dunn.

 

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 51m

 

yanks on mark reynolds. but angels, twins, others in. NYY no certainty. in LA, MR could make up for some lost trumbo power

[witesoxfan]

I don't know why you keep saying Alonzo unless you have a weird love for Yonder Alonzo.

 

I've almost done it too. You think Yasmani and you get lazy and it comes out as Yonser, and Yonser Grandal isn't right, but Yonser Alonso is.

[witesoxfan]

I mean, as with Grandal, acquiring him is on a case-by-case basis. D'Arnaud has a plus arm and supposedly can really cut it behind the plate. I think Grandal has a much better chance of being an asset as a hitter but D'Arnaud is the superior defender. I remember D'Arnaud had one of the highest CS% in the minors.

 

On the offense side of things, Grandal brings power potential and on base skills and D'Arnaud brings a strong hit tool. In my opinion Grandal has a much higher ceiling as a hitter because D'Arnaud may not have the plate discipline to be as strong a hitter. Acceptable but nothing out of this world.

 

In essence, I'd be in favor of acquiring either as they're both young, catching talent that bring their own set of skills. Curious to why you choose D'Arnaud specifically?

 

Because I want you to compare D'Arnaud's numbers in AAA and the majors to Josh Phegley's.

[SoxAce]

It's an honest mistake. I've been called on it before. They're both Cubans, from Miami, who play for SD and have been in top 100 prospect lists.

 

EDIT: Who's Alonzo?

 

That's not helping your case as to why you keep saying it then. Thought it was "Alonzo" instead of "Alonso" so now with you saying it is even more baffling.

 

[SoxAce]

Obviously me calling Grandal Alonso needed to be called out for sake of board confusion, but I think it's rule of thumb when you're going to call someone out all snarky you should at least spell the player's name right!

 

Nah, wasn't trying to be snarky kid, just wondering since you kept saying it multiple times that's all.

[Quin]

Would anyone deal Sanchez, Beck and Thompson and would it do it?

[professa]

Would anyone deal Sanchez, Beck and Thompson and would it do it?

 

In a heartbeat. The only guy I'd hate to lose would be Beck, but Grandal has shown he can put up a mid .800 OPS in the majors. If he's shown it, he's got it in him. Sanchez offers no use to this organization (Semien and Anderson block him) except maybe as a back up middle infielder. Thompson hasn't done s*** in the minors to prove he could be a major leaguer someday. Switch hitting, 24 y/o major league all star potential catchers don't grow on trees and to trade three unknowns for that is a steal imo. gotta take a risk sometime. This guy could be just as good as Wieters, and is a former first rounder so you know it's there.

 

1. Eaton

2. Alexei

3. Abreu

4. Dunn

5. Grandal

6. Garcia

7. Viciedo

8. Davidson

9. Beckham

 

Mighty good young core to build around

[GGajewski18]

I'm really starting to like the idea of Jason Castro. A solid left handed catcher that could hit too all fields and good defensively.

 

What would Sox have to give up to get him?

[professa]

I think more than Hahn would be willing to give up. He's a fit no doubt, but the year he's coming off of + the years of control = too much to trade for.

 

He's a key piece in the 'stros rebuilding efforts too, so unless they were getting someone who provides a similar ML value to them, it would seem like a lateral move. He would be a nice piece tho.

[professa]

One of their best prospects is going to start '14 in AAA and he is arguably the best defensive catcher in the minors. The idea would be to trade Castro coming off of a great year and have Max Stassi replace him shortly after.

 

Didn't catch that, thanks for pointing that out.

 

 

Still would probably cost Q to get a guy like that which IMO is not worth it, rather just take Alex Jackson in this upcoming draft and go with stop gaps until then.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Didn't catch that, thanks for pointing that out.

 

 

Still would probably cost Q to get a guy like that which IMO is not worth it, rather just take Alex Jackson in this upcoming draft and go with stop gaps until then.

 

 

Jackson is a HS player and will most likely require 3 years in minors. He also probably wont play catcher in the big leagues.

[beautox]

In a heartbeat. The only guy I'd hate to lose would be Beck, but Grandal has shown he can put up a mid .800 OPS in the majors. If he's shown it, he's got it in him. Sanchez offers no use to this organization (Semien and Anderson block him) except maybe as a back up middle infielder. Thompson hasn't done s*** in the minors to prove he could be a major leaguer someday. Switch hitting, 24 y/o major league all star potential catchers don't grow on trees and to trade three unknowns for that is a steal imo. gotta take a risk sometime. This guy could be just as good as Wieters, and is a former first rounder so you know it's there.

 

1. Eaton

2. Alexei

3. Abreu

4. Dunn

5. Grandal

6. Garcia

7. Viciedo

8. Davidson

9. Beckham

 

Mighty good young core to build around

 

No doubt Grandal would be a huge get. Its a really interesting situation thats going to continue to develop out in San Diego, he just had surgery and previous to that he had the PED / Biogensis scandal as well, and they have a solid regular in Hundley that should produce near 2WAR next season, in addition to Hedges getting a look later in the year. I doubt the sox could get him at a song per se but I think if Hahn really wanted him we could get it done with whats currently on our major league roster and in our system (Johnson / Rienzo + Jones + Sanchez / Johnson). Thats a lot to give up but I believe Grandal could develop into a 4-5WAR catcher while he is with the sox and he fits everything Hahn is looking for.

 

Looking at that package you're giving up a potential mid rotation starter, an excellent middle reliever coming off a 2WAR season that will be 28 this opening day, and a middle infield prospect that is either lost a bit of shine or gained a ton of helium. Personally I still like Sanchez a lot; consider that he could spend the next two seasons at AAA and still be on an age appropriate schedule to make it to the big leagues and he still hasn't burned an option yet, to me his tools and bat play a hell of a lot better at SS then at 2B. Micah on the other hand is coming off a very good season and could very well be moving out of the middle infield as soon as this upcoming season to the outfield and following a very billy hamilton-esque path to the show.

[Quin]

Other thing with Grandal...

 

We'd then have 4 Cubans on the roster as starters, possibly Nieto if he beat Phlowers for the backup spot.

 

Having two switch hitting Cuban hitters would be interesting. But more importantly, more Cubans could make JDA's adjustment easier.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Other thing with Grandal...

 

We'd then have 4 Cubans on the roster as starters, possibly Nieto if he beat Phlowers for the backup spot.

 

Having two switch hitting Cuban hitters would be interesting. But more importantly, more Cubans could make JDA's adjustment easier.

 

And more importantly, it could really solidify a pipeline for Cuban players, similar to what the Yankees and Mariners have with Japanese players.

[beautox]

Other thing with Grandal...

 

We'd then have 4 Cubans on the roster as starters, possibly Nieto if he beat Phlowers for the backup spot.

 

Having two switch hitting Cuban hitters would be interesting. But more importantly, more Cubans could make JDA's adjustment easier.

 

 

And more importantly, it could really solidify a pipeline for Cuban players, similar to what the Yankees and Mariners have with Japanese players.

 

Agreed on both fronts, with Dunn's contract coming off the books next year in addition to our modest payroll and cuba's shift in their pro players playing abroad policy. We could very easily see Alfredo Despaigne make his way state side next year. If that happens we would be in a prime position for his services. Keep Eaton in CF or move him to LF or move Garcia or just let Despaigne take over for left and provided Viciedo finally turns his tools into skills move him to DH, he is a right handed hitter as well so we would be a bit right handed heavy but Ramirez could be moved or maintained provided how Sanchez handles his second true go around of AAA.

 

Pie in the sky time

 

'15

DH - Viciedo R

C - Grandal S

1B - Abreu R

2B - Semien R

SS - Sanchez S

3B - Davidson R

LF - Despaigne R

CF - Eaton L

RF - Garcia R

 

Alright that was fun, getting back to this offseason I would like to see the following three players moved.

 

De Aza to the O's for Mike Wright RHSP and Tim Berry LHSP Wright looks to be a middle of the rotation starter or power reliever and Berry is still a long ways away reminds me of former prospect Daivd Holmberg. Berry has got talent and a lot of project-ability but as it stands now he just repeated A+ at age 22. The O's system isn't what it used to be and has thinned out a ton, but they need someone to play LF and replace McClouth at the top of the order, Reimold isn't that player. Oliver projects De Aza as a 2.8WAR player in CF if you move him to LF where his defense is no longer a liability and actually an asset I can see a 3 win player easily. He is projected to make 4.4Mil in arb2 and it appears the rate of 1WAR is nearly 7mil that is a lot of surplus value(16.6Mil) for a team on the cusp of competing again. Also it wouldn't surprise me if later in the season the sox and o's team up again for a trade of Adam Dunn or Paul Konerko or both if they haven't resolved their DH situation by then.

 

Beckham to the Jays for Aaron Loup LHMR and Sean Nolin LHSP and Adonys Cardona RHSP. Loup gives the white sox a young left handed middle reliever capable of getting both right and left handed hitters out effectivly, Nolin is the 10th rated prospect in the jays system by FG and BA, he has a celing and profile similar to Clayton Richard. Cardona is a teenage lottery pick that the jays paid 2.8M for; he features a low mid 90s fastball and a good curve but like most young prospects can't control it, he had a very down year at rookie ball in Bluefield. The Jays have missed out on every second basemen this offseason and earlier this offseason it was reported that 'Chicago's asking price is high for any type of package, and it's believed the organization is strongly interested in Blue Jays right-handers Aaron Sanchez or Marcus Stroman. Both of those pitchers are the prized assets of Toronto's Minor League organization and won't be easily pried loose, but it's possible the club will be open to potential deals considering its strong need to upgrade the roster.' link. Beckham is projected to make 3.5M in arb2 and Oliver projects him at 1.6WAR.

 

Gillaspie to the marlins for Dan Jennings LHMR and Edgar Olmos LHMR. The marlins need a platoon partner for Ed Lucas. Lucas crushes left handed hitting to the tune of .330/.374/.509, he will be 32 years old by opening day. Personally I still feel Conor can develop into a 2-2.5 peak 3WAR player and platooning with Lucas against tough left handers would be great for him, seeing how he fairs right handers .261/.324/.414. Conor doesn't turn 27 till late July so there is still a fair bit of upside to him and he is slightly above average on defense at 3B; Oliver projects him at 1.8WAR next season. The sox would be getting another young solid left handed middle reliever in Jennings and a left handed reliever in Olmos that has some great tools that he hasn't quite turned into skills, he has some really easy heat